News Article: Clifford off to free agency

Martin Skoula

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Oct 18, 2017
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Well the Dubai were against adding "grit" until Kid Kyle added some grit. Now that the "grit" is leaving, there was apparently no need for it.

I would expect "grit" will be important or not once Kid Kyle assembles his new bottom 6.

Please find me someone who is against grit full stop. Not wanting to overspend or massively downgrade skill to bring in grit is not the same thing as not wanting grit. Muzzin is a great add because he brings grit without being a stone handed low IQ player who costs 1+ mil more than he's worth because he hits.

Why build strawmen of arguments that no one has ever made?
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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You and I actually agree on why they didn't win. I just don't think it's Clifford that has that effect. Some of the leafs young forwards have to make a decision to win those games - and that means going to the net and getting wacked around. Ultimately it's the top nine guys that have to get to the net because they are the ones that actually score goals.
I was hoping to see a transition to the traditional top six or seven and a skilled top six with right mix of both in bottom six. Top nine spells to little grind,grit ,defensive approach in its perception. I like skill,i like grit. Lets get it right is my hope. The entire lineup has to accept getting their nose dirty I completely agree with you.
 

thehockeysong

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Nov 1, 2009
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I was hoping to see a transition to the traditional top six or seven and a skilled top six with right mix of both in bottom six. Top nine spells to little grind,grit ,defensive approach in its perception. I like skill,i like grit. Lets get it right is my hope. The entire lineup has to accept getting their nose dirty I completely agree with you.

Ya, ultimately losing a playoff series is annoying but when you lose and the guys aren't showing a willingness to do what it takes - as a fan I find that way more frustrating.
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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There is too much heat on Dubas to not add grit but I'd be happy if he goes all skill because he will either be right or fired. Win-win.
Haha yeah. Success would be cool. He really needs to regroup right now. The Kappy trade was all good but he has a significant job of roster reconstruction i believe. Maybe Hallander helps that for third line center. Hallander is interesting the way he is solid defensively. Big jump from SHL to NHL. We’ll keep our eyes on that one. I’m watching nervously because this is no longer a small sample size of what the team needs on the defensive side of the puck bottom six. Marner should rarely kill penalties. He does because the botton six lacks
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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Ya, ultimately losing a playoff series is annoying but when you lose and the guys aren't showing a willingness to do what it takes - as a fan I find that way more frustrating.
The first two lines carried the team all season. They really did do a excellent job. I love that skill and possession and scoring there. Cringed when bottom six was on.
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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If Vancouver walks away from Virtanen and we can get him as a UFA extremely cheaply he could be a replacement for Clifford.
 

JT AM da real deal

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Oct 4, 2018
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This is as ridiculous as it gets. You honestly believe Kyle Clifford's 8 minutes a game scared any team from throwing a hit? You can't imagine someone much cheaper playing his role?
No I don't. Hits are fine. It is Clifford's game. I am talking about dirty runs. Clifford is not flexing his muscle for any old regular hit. But if someone runs Matty into wall and smashed his face into glass then you need to send a message to other team that is not going to be tolerated. It is why having biggest guy on both benches is important. Today we are one of 4 teams that no one will mess with with a dirty run because Jenner Carter etc does not want to get rag dolled. It has nothing to do with ice time. He could get 4 minutes a game. All he has to do is look at Carter straight on for a minute at a faceoff and Carter knows what is going on.
 
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Stamkos4life

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Oct 25, 2018
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This is as ridiculous as it gets. You honestly believe Kyle Clifford's 8 minutes a game scared any team from throwing a hit? You can't imagine someone much cheaper playing his role?

The amount of ice time he plays has very little relevance.

The fact he was on the bench and could be sent out at any time is the detterent.

Nice strawman. A bit ridiculous though.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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London, On
This is as ridiculous as it gets. You honestly believe Kyle Clifford's 8 minutes a game scared any team from throwing a hit? You can't imagine someone much cheaper playing his role?

You need to re-phrase: You honestly believe Kyle Clifford's 8 minutes a game scared any team from throwing da hit? You can't imagine someone much cheaper playing da role?
 

egd27

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Jul 8, 2011
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Please find me someone who is against grit full stop. Not wanting to overspend or massively downgrade skill to bring in grit is not the same thing as not wanting grit. Muzzin is a great add because he brings grit without being a stone handed low IQ player who costs 1+ mil more than he's worth because he hits.

Why build strawmen of arguments that no one has ever made?

Does that describe Clifford?
 

Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
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Winning a cup is this easy.. notice the trend for GA teams ranked #2, #3, #4 for GA made the final 4..

 

Martin Skoula

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Oct 18, 2017
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Does that describe Clifford?

Depends what he's looking for in FA. He has ok IQ and hands for a 4th liner but he's not a physical force every shift the way that Reaves types are. If he gets more than 2 mil in FA, then yes he's overpaid by a mil+ and we're better off finding someone who can do a similar job for cheaper.

Ideally we get a gritty forward for the top end of the lineup though, I don't think tough 4th liners are the answer for us. A forward version of Muzzin at 3C or 2LW really.
 
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Man Bear Pig

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Aug 10, 2008
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A 2nd round pick is more valuable than Clifford. I dont think you can even make a case that it's not. 4 line grinder types arent exactly hard to find in free agency.
 
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RobBrown4PM

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Oct 12, 2009
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He didn't really even do anything. Seems like someone we can easily replace with someone from the Marlies, or with a dime-a-dozen player in FA.
 
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Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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No I don't. Hits are fine. It is Clifford's game. I am talking about dirty runs. Clifford is not flexing his muscle for any old regular hit. But if someone runs Matty into wall and smashed his face into glass then you need to send a message to other team that is not going to be tolerated. It is why having biggest guy on both benches is important. Today we are one of 4 teams that no one will mess with with a dirty run because Jenner Carter etc does not want to get rag dolled. It has nothing to do with ice time. He could get 4 minutes a game. All he has to do is look at Carter straight on for a minute at a faceoff and Carter knows what is going on.
He played safe solid minutes smart hockey. He wasn’t gotten for his scoring. He was gotten nonetheless. Shanny said end-of season we need to be grittier. If Dudas is going against that he is burying himself. Clifford didn’t hurt us. Neither did Martin actually. Leo did when he was taking powerplay time. Leo was a pain to play but wasn’t going to worry anyone if the gloves dropped. Foligno was pretty quiet and polite too. Just talked hockey and his mouth wasn’t running SH!t at anytime during that series. He could go a game before without acting all tough. Was that the Clifford factor? I kind of think so
 
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SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
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Sure, but what was their expected GA?

You can't really use something so simple as the actual results to draw conclusions like that. You need to look at what was "supposed" to have happened.
:teach2:. :sarcasm:

What are your conclusions?
 

ToMaLe

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Sep 24, 2002
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A 2nd round pick is more valuable than Clifford. I dont think you can even make a case that it's not. 4 line grinder types arent exactly hard to find in free agency.
I agree, Im a little tired of throwing away 2nd round picks for scrubs over the last few years.
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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If Vancouver walks away from Virtanen and we can get him as a UFA extremely cheaply he could be a replacement for Clifford.
He is looking for 2-3mil. Leivo is a more realistic target, didn’t he played well under Keefe?
 

Smif

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Jan 23, 2008
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The most recognizable name Kid Kyle can find that will play for around $1M. I would think Simmonds is the front runner.
I'm thinking Rinaldo might be better than Simmonds, and come at league minimum. Not too sure though, just worried that Simmonds still thinks he's a top 6 scoring forward that can't skate whereas Rinaldo knows exactly what he is.
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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A 2nd round pick is more valuable than Clifford. I dont think you can even make a case that it's not. 4 line grinder types arent exactly hard to find in free agency.
Baseless vague is all i have to say on that Man. I’ll say Pittsburgh just moved a high quality 1st for a need. Clifford is a need and can be signed much cheaper than Kappy’s cap hit. So youth think Martin will be cheaper? He’s the only comparable in free agency that will be the same. Thats one, where’s all these others that are dime dozen? Come on I’ll debate you all day on it. You are wrongthis one
 
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Man Bear Pig

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Aug 10, 2008
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Baseless vague is all i have to say on that Man. I’ll say Pittsburgh just moved a high quality 1st for a need. Clifford is a need and can be signed much cheaper than Kappy’s cap hit. So youth think Martin will be cheaper? He’s the only comparable in free agency that will be the same. Thats one, where’s all these others that are dime dozen? Come on I’ll debate you all day on it. You are wrongthis one
Kapanen is a guy who can play in anyone's top 6 and can kill penalties. I'm not sure how they're even close to comparable. Clifford is slow, doesnt kill penalties, doesnt produce and is too slow to throw many big hits anymore. Hes a 4th liner who'll play 10 minutes a night. Considering we've selected guys like Robertson and Dermott in the 2nd, you'd rather have Clifford over the possibility of a prospect like them? Hell, you may not even need to go on the open market to find a replacement when we have guys like Korshkov already in the system. Then there's UFA' like Simmonds, Lewis, Eakin, Sobotka, Weise, Maroon, Nolan etc.
 

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