Claude Giroux - Hart Trophy

[blinds]

Why, currently, would Giroux have a chance over MacKinnon? Way fewer goals, better team, and he's scored as many points as MacKinnon but in 8 more games

I know, I know, MacKinnon has had a cold handful of games at the worst possible time and everyone is hopping off the wagon, but Giroux doesn't have much of an argument here.

I think MacK is clearly the favorite if the Avs make it, but they're at about 50/50 right now to make the playoffs. If it's not him, I think it should be Kopitar, but the next tier would be Giroux/Malkin/Kucherov IMO. Out of those three, Giroux's probably the most vital to his team's success but he's hurt a little by his reliance on assists. Hall's too one dimensional and not scoring enough to win a Hart despite his lack of support.

I'll be upset if McDavid wins it on 2nd/3rd place votes. Guy's clearly the best player, but there's not much value generated on a team that finishes bottom 10.

 

[Jtown]

I think MacK is clearly the favorite if the Avs make it, but they're at about 50/50 right now to make the playoffs. If it's not him, I think it should be Kopitar, but the next tier would be Giroux/Malkin/Kucherov IMO. Out of those three, Giroux's probably the most vital to his team's success but he's hurt a little by his reliance on assists. Hall's too one dimensional and not scoring enough to win a Hart despite his lack of support.

I'll be upset if McDavid wins it on 2nd/3rd place votes. Guy's clearly the best player, but there's not much value generated on a team that finishes bottom 10.

what is most odd is that this run mdavid has been on since February came when they were already out of playoff contention. While it an awesome 2 month run for him, it is about as hollow as can be.

 

[Halakitlikethat]

Great bounce back year, it really shows it takes a long time to come back from certain injuries. Even though he was in the lineup last year you could tell he wasn’t the same

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I think MacK is clearly the favorite if the Avs make it, but they're at about 50/50 right now to make the playoffs. If it's not him, I think it should be Kopitar, but the next tier would be Giroux/Malkin/Kucherov IMO. Out of those three, Giroux's probably the most vital to his team's success but he's hurt a little by his reliance on assists. Hall's too one dimensional and not scoring enough to win a Hart despite his lack of support.

I'll be upset if McDavid wins it on 2nd/3rd place votes. Guy's clearly the best player, but there's not much value generated on a team that finishes bottom 10.

Avs just lost their starting goalie and #1D to injury. So it's looking more and more like the Avs have less than 50% chance to make the dance. So idk anymore. I think Kopitar wins it at this point even though he has Doughty

 

[NoName]

He is in the conversation for me personally. Still would put Hall, Kucherov, Mackinnon or Malkin ahead of him though (McDavid is the best player in the NHL but the Oilers are abysmal so I can't put him in the conversation because he isnt the most valuable player to his team: without McDavid, the Oilers are... also a dumpster fire... which they are anyway).

He could win it and it wouldn't be a travesty or anything if he did but in my eyes at least he is 5th.

 

[Tripod]

Giroux won't win, but lets do some digging on this under rated star player.

He is 3rd in points this decade with 594 points in 608 games. Only Kane with 596 and Crosby with 606 have more.
He has finished top 3 in Art Ross race 2 times.
He has finished top 4 in Hart voting 2 times.

Konecny:
Oct-Dec 25th when not on top line with Giroux and Couturier: 10 points in 36 games....23 point pace
Dec 25th-now when on the top line: 35 points in 41 games....70 point pace

Voracek:
Oct-Jan 1 when on the top line: 46 points in 38 games...a 99 point pace
Jan 1-now when not on the top line: 34 points in 40 games....a 70 point pace

Couturier:
Never broken 40 points before in his career.
This year while playing with Giroux: 71 points in 78 games....a 75 point pace.
Had 2 PP points last year
Has 13 PP points now that he is on the top unit that Giroux runs
And for reference, Konecny only has 1 PP point this year on our 2nd unit...it sucks.

Giroux runs the PP. Everything runs thru him:
Ghost #2 Dman in the league in PP points
Voracek tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Giroux himself is tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Ghost is 12th in the league in PP points

This year, there is no disputing he makes his linemates better. Maybe, guys maybe, that's why these guys have been doing so well.

People say XXXX has no help. Maybe because that guy doesn't help his linemates either. Reality is as of today:

Philly has scored 234 goals in 78 games: a 3 goal per game pace....Giroux in on 39.7%
NJ has scored 232 goals in 77 games: a 3.01 goal per game pace....Hall in on 37.1%
Avs have scored 246 goals in 78 games: a 3.15 goal per game pace....MacK in on 37.8%
LA has scored 229 goals in 78 games: a 2.95 goal per game pace...Kopi in on 39.3%
Tampa has scored 282 goals in 78 games: a 3.62 goal per game pace....Kuch in on 34.4%
Pitt has scored 257 goals in 78 games: a 3.29 goal per game pace....Malkin in on 36.2%

So Giroix has been on the highest % of team goals this year from this group. Other guys get help from others as well, goals more spread out on some teams.

And people squacked about him only being a PP guy. He is 5th in the league in ES points.

And as I said, Giroux won't win. He doesn't get the media hype others do. He never has. We all remember the Olympic snub over Kunitz....oh, because Kunitz was a LW. I guess Giroux can be a LW too. Or the "he has only had 1 good season", comments. Or the "I would not trade Galchenyuk for him". Or the "He has negative value" comments. Good times.

All he is is a captain leading his team to the playoffs with 35 points in his last 25 games. Only McDavid has more since then. And only 3 times has he been kept off the scoresheet since then.

Ho hum.

 

[zizbuka]

Unfortunately, like most trophies, this one won't go to the most 'valuable' player. Just like the Norris doesn't go the best defenseman. There's so much more to playing defense than points, just like there's other ways to be valuable to your team than just points.

Voters need to remember there's other trophies for top points and top goals.

 

[Adrianopolous]

Giroux won't win, but lets do some digging on this under rated star player.

He is 3rd in points this decade with 594 points in 608 games. Only Kane with 596 and Crosby with 606 have more.
He has finished top 3 in Art Ross race 2 times.
He has finished top 4 in Hart voting 2 times.

Konecny:
Oct-Dec 25th when not on top line with Giroux and Couturier: 10 points in 36 games....23 point pace
Dec 25th-now when on the top line: 35 points in 41 games....70 point pace

Voracek:
Oct-Jan 1 when on the top line: 46 points in 38 games...a 99 point pace
Jan 1-now when not on the top line: 34 points in 40 games....a 70 point pace

Couturier:
Never broken 40 points before in his career.
This year while playing with Giroux: 71 points in 78 games....a 75 point pace.
Had 2 PP points last year
Has 13 PP points now that he is on the top unit that Giroux runs
And for reference, Konecny only has 1 PP point this year on our 2nd unit...it sucks.

Giroux runs the PP. Everything runs thru him:
Ghost #2 Dman in the league in PP points
Voracek tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Giroux himself is tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Ghost is 12th in the league in PP points

This year, there is no disputing he makes his linemates better. Maybe, guys maybe, that's why these guys have been doing so well.

People say XXXX has no help. Maybe because that guy doesn't help his linemates either. Reality is as of today:

Philly has scored 234 goals in 78 games: a 3 goal per game pace....Giroux in on 39.7%
NJ has scored 232 goals in 77 games: a 3.01 goal per game pace....Hall in on 37.1%
Avs have scored 246 goals in 78 games: a 3.15 goal per game pace....MacK in on 37.8%
LA has scored 229 goals in 78 games: a 2.95 goal per game pace...Kopi in on 39.3%
Tampa has scored 282 goals in 78 games: a 3.62 goal per game pace....Kuch in on 34.4%
Pitt has scored 257 goals in 78 games: a 3.29 goal per game pace....Malkin in on 36.2%

So Giroix has been on the highest % of team goals this year from this group. Other guys get help from others as well, goals more spread out on some teams.

And people squacked about him only being a PP guy. He is 5th in the league in ES points.

And as I said, Giroux won't win. He doesn't get the media hype others do. He never has. We all remember the Olympic snub over Kunitz....oh, because Kunitz was a LW. I guess Giroux can be a LW too. Or the "he has only had 1 good season", comments. Or the "I would not trade Galchenyuk for him". Or the "He has negative value" comments. Good times.

All he is is a captain leading his team to the playoffs with 35 points in his last 25 games. Only McDavid has more since then. And only 3 times has he been kept off the scoresheet since then.

Ho hum.

Great post.

 

[Canucks1096]

Giroux won't win, but lets do some digging on this under rated star player.

He is 3rd in points this decade with 594 points in 608 games. Only Kane with 596 and Crosby with 606 have more.
He has finished top 3 in Art Ross race 2 times.
He has finished top 4 in Hart voting 2 times.

Konecny:
Oct-Dec 25th when not on top line with Giroux and Couturier: 10 points in 36 games....23 point pace
Dec 25th-now when on the top line: 35 points in 41 games....70 point pace

Voracek:
Oct-Jan 1 when on the top line: 46 points in 38 games...a 99 point pace
Jan 1-now when not on the top line: 34 points in 40 games....a 70 point pace

Couturier:
Never broken 40 points before in his career.
This year while playing with Giroux: 71 points in 78 games....a 75 point pace.
Had 2 PP points last year
Has 13 PP points now that he is on the top unit that Giroux runs
And for reference, Konecny only has 1 PP point this year on our 2nd unit...it sucks.

Giroux runs the PP. Everything runs thru him:
Ghost #2 Dman in the league in PP points
Voracek tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Giroux himself is tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Ghost is 12th in the league in PP points

This year, there is no disputing he makes his linemates better. Maybe, guys maybe, that's why these guys have been doing so well.

People say XXXX has no help. Maybe because that guy doesn't help his linemates either. Reality is as of today:

Philly has scored 234 goals in 78 games: a 3 goal per game pace....Giroux in on 39.7%
NJ has scored 232 goals in 77 games: a 3.01 goal per game pace....Hall in on 37.1%
Avs have scored 246 goals in 78 games: a 3.15 goal per game pace....MacK in on 37.8%
LA has scored 229 goals in 78 games: a 2.95 goal per game pace...Kopi in on 39.3%
Tampa has scored 282 goals in 78 games: a 3.62 goal per game pace....Kuch in on 34.4%
Pitt has scored 257 goals in 78 games: a 3.29 goal per game pace....Malkin in on 36.2%

So Giroix has been on the highest % of team goals this year from this group. Other guys get help from others as well, goals more spread out on some teams.

And people squacked about him only being a PP guy. He is 5th in the league in ES points.

And as I said, Giroux won't win. He doesn't get the media hype others do. He never has. We all remember the Olympic snub over Kunitz....oh, because Kunitz was a LW. I guess Giroux can be a LW too. Or the "he has only had 1 good season", comments. Or the "I would not trade Galchenyuk for him". Or the "He has negative value" comments. Good times.

All he is is a captain leading his team to the playoffs with 35 points in his last 25 games. Only McDavid has more since then. And only 3 times has he been kept off the scoresheet since then.

Ho hum.

Awesome post. Giroux has always been one of my Fav players. So Underrated, I hear so many people say Giroux is not carrying the team because he play with Voracek and Couturier. The reason why those 2 are having high pointz total is because of Giroux. Giroux has proven he doesn't need those two to put up big points. Those two are not proven to put up big points without Giroux. 2012 Giroux made Hartnell 37 goal scorer.

 

[1865]

Giroux does have the help from Couts, Ghost and Jake but watch the Flyers for ten minutes and you’ll see that G is our MVP by a distance. Whenever we need something, whenever we need a jolt of inspiration it’s him. It’s a great pass, drawing a penalty, a key goal, even a hit sometimes. He’s the most clutch guy I’ve ever seen and he deserves a real shot at MVP of the league.

 

[AdamParrot]

Giroux won't win, but lets do some digging on this under rated star player.

He is 3rd in points this decade with 594 points in 608 games. Only Kane with 596 and Crosby with 606 have more.
He has finished top 3 in Art Ross race 2 times.
He has finished top 4 in Hart voting 2 times.

Konecny:
Oct-Dec 25th when not on top line with Giroux and Couturier: 10 points in 36 games....23 point pace
Dec 25th-now when on the top line: 35 points in 41 games....70 point pace

Voracek:
Oct-Jan 1 when on the top line: 46 points in 38 games...a 99 point pace
Jan 1-now when not on the top line: 34 points in 40 games....a 70 point pace

Couturier:
Never broken 40 points before in his career.
This year while playing with Giroux: 71 points in 78 games....a 75 point pace.
Had 2 PP points last year
Has 13 PP points now that he is on the top unit that Giroux runs
And for reference, Konecny only has 1 PP point this year on our 2nd unit...it sucks.

Giroux runs the PP. Everything runs thru him:
Ghost #2 Dman in the league in PP points
Voracek tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Giroux himself is tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Ghost is 12th in the league in PP points

This year, there is no disputing he makes his linemates better. Maybe, guys maybe, that's why these guys have been doing so well.

People say XXXX has no help. Maybe because that guy doesn't help his linemates either. Reality is as of today:

Philly has scored 234 goals in 78 games: a 3 goal per game pace....Giroux in on 39.7%
NJ has scored 232 goals in 77 games: a 3.01 goal per game pace....Hall in on 37.1%
Avs have scored 246 goals in 78 games: a 3.15 goal per game pace....MacK in on 37.8%
LA has scored 229 goals in 78 games: a 2.95 goal per game pace...Kopi in on 39.3%
Tampa has scored 282 goals in 78 games: a 3.62 goal per game pace....Kuch in on 34.4%
Pitt has scored 257 goals in 78 games: a 3.29 goal per game pace....Malkin in on 36.2%

So Giroix has been on the highest % of team goals this year from this group. Other guys get help from others as well, goals more spread out on some teams.

And people squacked about him only being a PP guy. He is 5th in the league in ES points.

And as I said, Giroux won't win. He doesn't get the media hype others do. He never has. We all remember the Olympic snub over Kunitz....oh, because Kunitz was a LW. I guess Giroux can be a LW too. Or the "he has only had 1 good season", comments. Or the "I would not trade Galchenyuk for him". Or the "He has negative value" comments. Good times.

All he is is a captain leading his team to the playoffs with 35 points in his last 25 games. Only McDavid has more since then. And only 3 times has he been kept off the scoresheet since then.

Ho hum.

Awesome post!

 

[Tripod]

Giroux gets a goal to set a new career high in points at 94!! 36 points in his last 26 games!

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Haha every day a new player gets his thread bumped for the HART.

Shows how close this race is...and how many good options there are.

 

[Sasso09]

Haha every day a new player gets his thread bumped for the HART.

Shows how close this race is...and how many good options there are.

It's true...

There's legit 7 guys that deserve Hart and I won't complain if either of them get it

 

[Adrianopolous]

We're super lucky to be witnessing a talent like Claude.

 

[MtoD]

Giroux won't win, but lets do some digging on this under rated star player.

He is 3rd in points this decade with 594 points in 608 games. Only Kane with 596 and Crosby with 606 have more.
He has finished top 3 in Art Ross race 2 times.
He has finished top 4 in Hart voting 2 times.

Konecny:
Oct-Dec 25th when not on top line with Giroux and Couturier: 10 points in 36 games....23 point pace
Dec 25th-now when on the top line: 35 points in 41 games....70 point pace

Voracek:
Oct-Jan 1 when on the top line: 46 points in 38 games...a 99 point pace
Jan 1-now when not on the top line: 34 points in 40 games....a 70 point pace

Couturier:
Never broken 40 points before in his career.
This year while playing with Giroux: 71 points in 78 games....a 75 point pace.
Had 2 PP points last year
Has 13 PP points now that he is on the top unit that Giroux runs
And for reference, Konecny only has 1 PP point this year on our 2nd unit...it sucks.

Giroux runs the PP. Everything runs thru him:
Ghost #2 Dman in the league in PP points
Voracek tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Giroux himself is tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Ghost is 12th in the league in PP points

This year, there is no disputing he makes his linemates better. Maybe, guys maybe, that's why these guys have been doing so well.

People say XXXX has no help. Maybe because that guy doesn't help his linemates either. Reality is as of today:

Philly has scored 234 goals in 78 games: a 3 goal per game pace....Giroux in on 39.7%
NJ has scored 232 goals in 77 games: a 3.01 goal per game pace....Hall in on 37.1%
Avs have scored 246 goals in 78 games: a 3.15 goal per game pace....MacK in on 37.8%
LA has scored 229 goals in 78 games: a 2.95 goal per game pace...Kopi in on 39.3%
Tampa has scored 282 goals in 78 games: a 3.62 goal per game pace....Kuch in on 34.4%
Pitt has scored 257 goals in 78 games: a 3.29 goal per game pace....Malkin in on 36.2%

So Giroix has been on the highest % of team goals this year from this group. Other guys get help from others as well, goals more spread out on some teams.

And people squacked about him only being a PP guy. He is 5th in the league in ES points.

And as I said, Giroux won't win. He doesn't get the media hype others do. He never has. We all remember the Olympic snub over Kunitz....oh, because Kunitz was a LW. I guess Giroux can be a LW too. Or the "he has only had 1 good season", comments. Or the "I would not trade Galchenyuk for him". Or the "He has negative value" comments. Good times.

All he is is a captain leading his team to the playoffs with 35 points in his last 25 games. Only McDavid has more since then. And only 3 times has he been kept off the scoresheet since then.

Ho hum.

Your math doesn't take into account games missed by the players you are evaluating. Pretty sure MacKinnon can't factor into a goal when his team isn't playing and holding that against him is pretty stupid given the stat you're heralding.

You're also not even using the right goal totals. You have to remove goals awarded for shootout wins considering no player officially factors into those goals.

 

[The Rage Kage]

Comes in clutch with the overtime winner.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Comes in clutch with the overtime winner.

Career high in goals, career high in points. What a beaut.

 

[Regal]

Giroux won't win, but lets do some digging on this under rated star player.

He is 3rd in points this decade with 594 points in 608 games. Only Kane with 596 and Crosby with 606 have more.
He has finished top 3 in Art Ross race 2 times.
He has finished top 4 in Hart voting 2 times.

Konecny:
Oct-Dec 25th when not on top line with Giroux and Couturier: 10 points in 36 games....23 point pace
Dec 25th-now when on the top line: 35 points in 41 games....70 point pace

Voracek:
Oct-Jan 1 when on the top line: 46 points in 38 games...a 99 point pace
Jan 1-now when not on the top line: 34 points in 40 games....a 70 point pace

Couturier:
Never broken 40 points before in his career.
This year while playing with Giroux: 71 points in 78 games....a 75 point pace.
Had 2 PP points last year
Has 13 PP points now that he is on the top unit that Giroux runs
And for reference, Konecny only has 1 PP point this year on our 2nd unit...it sucks.

Giroux runs the PP. Everything runs thru him:
Ghost #2 Dman in the league in PP points
Voracek tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Giroux himself is tied for 6th in the league in PP points
Ghost is 12th in the league in PP points

This year, there is no disputing he makes his linemates better. Maybe, guys maybe, that's why these guys have been doing so well.

People say XXXX has no help. Maybe because that guy doesn't help his linemates either. Reality is as of today:

Philly has scored 234 goals in 78 games: a 3 goal per game pace....Giroux in on 39.7%
NJ has scored 232 goals in 77 games: a 3.01 goal per game pace....Hall in on 37.1%
Avs have scored 246 goals in 78 games: a 3.15 goal per game pace....MacK in on 37.8%
LA has scored 229 goals in 78 games: a 2.95 goal per game pace...Kopi in on 39.3%
Tampa has scored 282 goals in 78 games: a 3.62 goal per game pace....Kuch in on 34.4%
Pitt has scored 257 goals in 78 games: a 3.29 goal per game pace....Malkin in on 36.2%

So Giroix has been on the highest % of team goals this year from this group. Other guys get help from others as well, goals more spread out on some teams.

And people squacked about him only being a PP guy. He is 5th in the league in ES points.

And as I said, Giroux won't win. He doesn't get the media hype others do. He never has. We all remember the Olympic snub over Kunitz....oh, because Kunitz was a LW. I guess Giroux can be a LW too. Or the "he has only had 1 good season", comments. Or the "I would not trade Galchenyuk for him". Or the "He has negative value" comments. Good times.

All he is is a captain leading his team to the playoffs with 35 points in his last 25 games. Only McDavid has more since then. And only 3 times has he been kept off the scoresheet since then.

Ho hum.

The only thing I will argue with in this is the sense of putting down his teammates to prop him up when those same teammates are typically touted in threads that involve them. The "Couts isn't a 40 point player" was a poor argument used by people who were unaware of his ES scoring and games missed in previous years. A poor argument used by other people to discredit a player isn't a good argument to use to prop up another player. Obviously he's taken a big jump this season, and I'm sure Giroux is part of that, but he's been touted by you and several of the other Flyers fans who usually delve into the stats quite a bit as the team's best ES player for a couple years now. Similarly, while Voracek hasn't been scoring as much since being off the top line, he's still scoring at a good clip with far worse players. The lack of depth after the the top 5 forwards on Philly is going to hurt anyone's numbers

 

[Tripod]

The only thing I will argue with in this is the sense of putting down his teammates to prop him up when those same teammates are typically touted in threads that involve them. The "Couts isn't a 40 point player" was a poor argument used by people who were unaware of his ES scoring and games missed in previous years. A poor argument used by other people to discredit a player isn't a good argument to use to prop up another player. Obviously he's taken a big jump this season, and I'm sure Giroux is part of that, but he's been touted by you and several of the other Flyers fans who usually delve into the stats quite a bit as the team's best ES player for a couple years now. Similarly, while Voracek hasn't been scoring as much since being off the top line, he's still scoring at a good clip with far worse players. The lack of depth after the the top 5 forwards on Philly is going to hurt anyone's numbers

And that's fair.

The Couts comment was because someone even said Couts was better than Giroux this year, which is a farce.

And as for Voracek, from hi 34 points since going to line 2, Giroux STILL has 15 points on those 34 points. So G is still contributing on 44% of Jakes points since Jan 1 even though they are not on the same line anymore.

 

[Scotty Pucks]

We're super lucky to be witnessing a talent like Claude.

Seriously. McDavid is the best player in hockey right now, so it will be tough to top him. But he deserves to be a candidate with Kootch, IMO.

 

[AdamParrot]

Another awesome game by G!

And I find this: (it's from early March, I know, but still..)

 

[1967th Heaven]

I think Giroux would be #1 on my ballot if Colorado misses, close as hell between him and Mack if Colorado makes but i'd probably lean Mack

 

[AdamParrot]

37 points in last 26 games.

 

[Cekmate]

Your math doesn't take into account games missed by the players you are evaluating. Pretty sure MacKinnon can't factor into a goal when his team isn't playing and holding that against him is pretty stupid given the stat you're heralding.

This is a dumb way to lower a player's argument for Hart. By playing more games, you are given more time to provide "VALUE" for your team. Playing more games should not be a crutch for a player, even if another player has higher PPG. It absolutely should hurt your Hart chances if you have less games played.