Value of: Chris Tierney to COL

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Bowers would replace Bellemare in 2021/22, and then Jenner/Tierney become UFA's themselves in 2022, so there would be a clear progression path for Bowers, from 4C to 3C.

Ideally, sure, but wouldn't Bowers getting as much NHL ice time as he can this season go a long way to ensure that he's ready to replace Bellemare in 2021/22? How does adding another forward not reduce his chances to get that experience? He's already competing against guys like Kaut and LOC to be the first injury call up, putting another road block in his way seems counterproductive to the end goal.

I also don't see who in the current lineup deserves to sit in order to add Tierney this season. We've got very serviceable players already in the lineup, even if they aren't ideally suited for the specific role we need today. So, who is the odd man out? Do we send Jost to Loveland and hope it doesn't impact his confidence/development (assuming he's not claimed)? Bench Bellemare and then have a hole at 4C? Or sit Donskoi, with more 2 years left at $3.9m AAV? I don't necessarily like any of those choices.

 

[Richard88]

Ideally, sure, but wouldn't Bowers getting as much NHL ice time as he can this season go a long way to ensure that he's ready to replace Bellemare in 2021/22? How does adding another forward not reduce his chances to get that experience? He's already competing against guys like Kaut and LOC to be the first injury call up, putting another road block in his way seems counterproductive to the end goal.

I also don't see who in the current lineup deserves to sit in order to add Tierney this season. We've got very serviceable players already in the lineup, even if they aren't ideally suited for the specific role we need today. So, who is the odd man out? Do we send Jost to Loveland and hope it doesn't impact his confidence/development (assuming he's not claimed)? Bench Bellemare and then have a hole at 4C? Or sit Donskoi, with more 2 years left at $3.9m AAV? I don't necessarily like any of those choices.

Ideally we'd trade one of Compher or Donskoi for a good 3C, rather than trading Graves. That way we maintain the depth on D, and also don't add another obstacle for Bowers.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Ideally, sure, but wouldn't Bowers getting as much NHL ice time as he can this season go a long way to ensure that he's ready to replace Bellemare in 2021/22? How does adding another forward not reduce his chances to get that experience? He's already competing against guys like Kaut and LOC to be the first injury call up, putting another road block in his way seems counterproductive to the end goal.

I also don't see who in the current lineup deserves to sit in order to add Tierney this season. We've got very serviceable players already in the lineup, even if they aren't ideally suited for the specific role we need today. So, who is the odd man out? Do we send Jost to Loveland and hope it doesn't impact his confidence/development (assuming he's not claimed)? Bench Bellemare and then have a hole at 4C? Or sit Donskoi, with more 2 years left at $3.9m AAV? I don't necessarily like any of those choices.

I mean move Dong or Compher if you need to, but the 3C issue needs to be addressed because we can't have Compher getting caved in every shift in the playoffs again. And Bowers getting ice time this year will be strictly be based on if he is good enough to play or if there are injuries. This isn't a year where the Avs will be seeing which fringe prospects are ready for the NHL.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I mean move Dong or Compher if you need to, but the 3C issue needs to be addressed because we can't have Compher getting caved in every shift in the playoffs again. And Bowers getting ice time this year will be strictly be based on if he is good enough to play or if there are injuries. This isn't a year where the Avs will be seeing which fringe prospects are ready for the NHL.

I completely agree that Bowers should only get ice time if he deserves it, but I still prefer that our youngsters get a chance at that ice time, so they are closer to being ready when our current group of secondary players is too expensive to keep. I also don't remember Compher's play being one of the main reasons we lost in the playoffs. I'd say that losing Grubauer and EJ in game 1 had a much bigger impact that any of Compher's shortcomings.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I completely agree that Bowers should only get ice time if he deserves it, but I still prefer that our youngsters get a chance at that ice time, so they are closer to being ready when our current group of secondary players is too expensive to keep. I also don't remember Compher's play being one of the main reasons we lost in the playoffs. I'd say that losing Grubauer and EJ in game 1 had a much bigger impact that any of Compher's shortcomings.

The injuries were obviously a bigger factor, but Compher has shown over a good chunk of his career that he isn't a capable C.

 

[BKarchitect]

Tierney is an upgrade over JTC as a center but he’s not a second round pick upgrade especially when we don’t have another second round pick until the 2023 draft. And Ottawa has no reason to swap Tierney for JTC.

And he’s a smart player but I don’t see him adding an additional facet to the line-up. I see somebody like Jenner (just mentioning him because someone else brought him up in this thread) - who you sacrifice some skating but has more size, throws hits, blocks shots with abandon and is really good on the dot (55% to 51% over Tierney since 2019) as well as unquestionable leadership qualities as more of a “missing piece” fit as the Avs head into the playoffs. He can give the third line a totally different look at center or add a meat and potatoes toughness element with a touch of goal scoring ability as a winger to a different line.

Tierney is like the guy we hope/think Jost can become as he improves his skating. I mean NyQuils scouting report of Tierney reads like a more seasoned Jost...intelligent, sound defensively, good positioning, a tick of offensive ability but not a driver of anything and pretty vanilla. If we are going to leverage more draft picks to make a run now, I’m definitely fine with that but I’d like to see something different added.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but what would JTC cost for Detroit?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

The injuries were obviously a bigger factor, but Compher has shown over a good chunk of his career that he isn't a capable C.

He's also just entering his 4th full NHL season, and only his second where he wasn't primarily at wing. I agree that he's struggled at C thus, but I still think he's got the potential to be good enough.

 

[DatDude44]

Tierney is a "doesn't make a lot of mistakes" but "doesn't initiate a lot of play" kind of player.

His first game was a bit of a revelation in terms of his commitment to battling and involving himself in the play (on a very good line with cannonball Nick Paul), but the second was a more traditional outing for him.

He makes smart plays in clearing zones and short, effective passes, and he is positionally very sound.

But he's not a take charge kind of player and you really have to pay attention to notice the little things that he does. Sometimes you're left wanting for bigger things.

Reminds me a bit of Radek Bonk.

So essentially he's the ideal 3rd line Center....nothing wrong with that.

 

[NyQuil]

So essentially he's the ideal 3rd line Center....nothing wrong with that.

Sure, if that's what you're looking for.

There are some types of 3rd line centres that bring different things (e.g. energy, physicality).

That's not really part of his game.

 

[DatDude44]

Sure, if that's what you're looking for.

There are some types of 3rd line centres that bring different things (e.g. energy, physicality).

That's not really part of his game.

He seems like a better bozak lmao

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Tierney is an upgrade over JTC as a center but he’s not a second round pick upgrade especially when we don’t have another second round pick until the 2023 draft. And Ottawa has no reason to swap Tierney for JTC.

And he’s a smart player but I don’t see him adding an additional facet to the line-up. I see somebody like Jenner (just mentioning him because someone else brought him up in this thread) - who you sacrifice some skating but has more size, throws hits, blocks shots with abandon and is really good on the dot (55% to 51% over Tierney since 2019) as well as unquestionable leadership qualities as more of a “missing piece” fit as the Avs head into the playoffs. He can give the third line a totally different look at center or add a meat and potatoes toughness element with a touch of goal scoring ability as a winger to a different line.

Tierney is like the guy we hope/think Jost can become as he improves his skating. I mean NyQuils scouting report of Tierney reads like a more seasoned Jost...intelligent, sound defensively, good positioning, a tick of offensive ability but not a driver of anything and pretty vanilla. If we are going to leverage more draft picks to make a run now, I’m definitely fine with that but I’d like to see something different added.

This is pretty spot on. Tierney is an entirely viable 3C, a good one, in fact, but he isn't going to impact the mood of the game. Tierney may be more capable at stepping into a top 6 and playing a complementary role than some 3Cs, as he's a pretty good playmaker, but he won't drive the play at any level. A guy like Jenner is an elite 3C, whereas Tierney is far more of a complimentary player. He could benefit any team, but he won't really change the composition of your 3rd line (beyond maybe making it more competent). A guy like Jenner can step in and totally change a bottom 6 line, on the other hand.

That said, I don't think guys like that come up very often (hell, I dont even think Tierney is available).

 

[The Abusement Park]

He's also just entering his 4th full NHL season, and only his second where he wasn't primarily at wing. I agree that he's struggled at C thus, but I still think he's got the potential to be good enough.

He's 25 and played~250 games. He's not really at the point of his career where potential is still a thing.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sure, if that's what you're looking for.

There are some types of 3rd line centres that bring different things (e.g. energy, physicality).

That's not really part of his game.

We just need a 3rd line C who won't get caved in every shift.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

He's 25 and played~250 games. He's not really at the point of his career where potential is still a thing.

I'm sure a lot of people would have said similar things about Nichushkin before last season.

 

[Richard88]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but what would JTC cost for Detroit?

Hard to say, maybe a couple of picks. What would you be willing to offer?

 

[NyQuil]

He seems like a better bozak lmao

It's not a bad comparison actually.

 

[guyzeur]

Think the sens still need him for the season, maybe after season pre-expansion draft for a 2nd round pick+prospect?

We'll need him for Sens playoffs run this year.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'm sure a lot of people would have said similar things about Nichushkin before last season.

I mean realistically Nuke probably peaked last year. Peaks are usually in the 23-25 range.

 

[thesensguy]

We'll need him for Sens playoffs run this year.

Rome wasn’t built in one day. Going from bottom 3 to a few points out of the playoffs would still be major progress. That‘a more valuable to our development into a playoff team than another 2nd rounder and the difference between the 6th and 10th overall pick.

 

[McJedi]

Richard. You need to find a deal to get one of JTC or Donskoi off the roster before adding a player like this.

 

[McJedi]

I mean realistically Nuke probably peaked last year. Peaks are usually in the 23-25 range.

Nuke had a great game last night if you’re into analytics. And he unleashed one wrister that had the velocity of a hard slap shot.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Nuke had a great game last night if you’re into analytics. And he unleashed one wrister that had the velocity of a hard slap shot.

Just because he might have peaked last year doesn't mean he becomes a useless player?

 

[McJedi]

Just because he might have peaked last year doesn't mean he becomes a useless player?

He may have peaked but what we saw last night was the same best of Nuke we got last year. Very encouraging. Kadri needs to eat the same thing Nuke did before that game. See if Kadri can level back up. He’s been pretty useless.

 

[McJedi]

Hard to say, maybe a couple of picks. What would you be willing to offer?

A couple? Come on dude. You’d take Detroit’s 2nd in 2021 and that would suffice. I’d do the 2nd in 2022 if Detroit would rather it be that draft vs 2021.