Chris Kreider - Rookie/Beast

[Miamipuck]

Kreider's strength is off the charts. The two maybe comparable but Kreider is probably the strongest player many of us have ever watched. Some of us have been watching a long time.

In every other area save speed and stick handling, Kreider's talent level is still being under rated. His passing and shooting are way better than he's had a chance to show so far. Watch the reaction video from the bench when Nash score's. Klein and Staal look at each other and say loud enough to hear " ..now THAT was a Kreid's pass."

The only place he's minimally talented in comparison to other areas is stick handling. Obviously Kovalev was superb in that area.

I am not under rating Kreider, I think/know he has elite talent. Kovalev though possessed as much if not more natural ability then many of the generational players from the 80's/90's/2000's, his era. That's not to say he was a generational player himself, he obviously wasn't. I watched him he could do anything on the ice if he so choosed. Also he was strong like bull (lol) too

Kovalev had one major disadvantage that kept him from being an all time great, that thing above his shoulders.

Edit: Honestly, I don't think of them as comparable players. Kovalev could have been and should have been a better version of Datsyuk, but give me PD on my team any day of the week. Kreider I am not sure of a good comparison.

 

[bernmeister]

He was wrong, anyway. He thought Kreider would succeed at center, not wing.

Said nothing wrong if we were short at C, he would work there as well, he has experience (even if limited) and the boards would not be able for use vs him if he is rushing more in center ice.

Since he has the shot and is now past Dave Keon mode and into full blown turning into Pavel Bure mode, no prob w/him at W, which we also need.

My current position is once he has mastered W, then a la Patrick Sharp, let's give him a few shifts here and there and see if he takes to C. Just for the versatility of it.

Heh.

I would not have to toot my own horn if a handful of detractors did not have to insist I was wrong on my Kreider projections, incl that he would become more valuable than Stepan.

We are now seeing that Brassard is indeed able to hold up the pivot.
Maybe we can/should trade Stepan if the return is good.

Kreider is just an obvious example, and when I'm wrong, ok, fine.
But my detractors want to be arrogant and deny me when I'm ultimately proven right, whether it is Kreider or something else.

So for not respecting proper props, "heh" right back at ya!

 

[bernmeister]

It's official, Krieder is the love child of Frank Zappa and Xena Warrior Princess

Not sure if true, but rates a
anyway!

 

[bernmeister]

Tavares, Duchene, Hedman, OEL, O'Reilly is probably the consensus top-5 from the 2009 draft.

Kreider is definitely in the next group with Kane, Kadri, Schenn.

I say Tavares, maybe Hedman.
Would prefer CK marginally to Duchene, OEL and by a lot over ROR.
Of course, this is hindsight.

 

[NYR Viper]

I say Tavares, maybe Hedman.
Would prefer CK marginally to Duchene, OEL and by a lot over ROR.
Of course, this is hindsight.

Uh, no you wouldn't. OEL, ROR and Duchene are monsters

 

[Whiplash27]

I say Tavares, maybe Hedman.
Would prefer CK marginally to Duchene, OEL and by a lot over ROR.
Of course, this is hindsight.

Let's wait for CK to put up a 70+ point season before we say these kinds of things.

 

[Synergy27]

I say Tavares, maybe Hedman.
Would prefer CK marginally to Duchene, OEL and by a lot over ROR.
Of course, this is hindsight.

I like how you're arrogant enough to think that you have detractors. I also like the fact that you just said you'd take Kreider over Duchene. I mean, really?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I would not have to toot my own horn if a handful of detractors did not have to insist I was wrong on my Kreider projections, incl that he would become more valuable than Stepan.

When I read the bold I wanted to point out that it's "including but not limited to" him becoming more valuable than stepan and the "not limited to" is probably where you get in trouble. But before I could see this and post I read below and sure enough...

I say Tavares, maybe Hedman.
Would prefer CK marginally to Duchene, OEL and by a lot over ROR.
Of course, this is hindsight.

I'm sure most people, if not all, agreed with you that CK would become a good player. Most disagree with the level of success you predict and/or guarantee. Based on everything we've seen since the draft your current decision to draft CK over Duchene for example would result in the fans wanting your head for the past 3 or 4 years

 

[Khelvan]

But my detractors want to be arrogant and deny me when I'm ultimately proven right, whether it is Kreider or something else.

So for not respecting proper props, "heh" right back at ya!

Other than making really weird trade proposals and clamoring for CK to be tried at center, who exactly are you again? And what "detractors" are these?

I'm sorry, I really don't know why you in any way should receive special treatment.

 

[bernmeister]

Uh, no you wouldn't. OEL, ROR and Duchene are monsters

They are monsters, agreed. Don't see their ceiling as much more than what's seen to date.
Prefer what we got in CK. His ceiling remains hidden from us --- for now.

 

[eco's bones]

Truthfully for our purposes right now I think I'd prefer Kreider over Duchene. The first two games he's driven at least a good part of the Canadiens team plus the majority of their fan base to distraction and it's to the point now that I'm very amused. His return to the lineup helped mightily to get us over the Penguin hump and now we're cruising through Montreal and he's been front, line and left wing.

FWIW Kreider should become a legit 1st line power forward. O'Reilly might outscore him but O'Reilly is no power forward and he can't skate anywhere near as well as CK. I would love to have O'Reilly on the Rangers--we share the same last name--but not at the expense of Kreider.

As far as Bernmeister though--this Kreider-Keon thing is nutty. I really wish he would drop that and the **** about putting Kreider at center. For those who don't know who he's talking about Keon played for the Leafs in the late 50's and his career stretched into the 70's. He was a very good player--a center who never--or hardly ever took penalties--he was about 5'8 and a playmaker type. How or why he compares him to Kreider I still haven't figured out--we've argued about it before.

Bernmeister as we all know as well is trade happy--and if it were up to him the Rangers would have traded 3/4 of our current roster for mostly projects and prospects and we wouldn't be making this improbable Stanley Cup run that we're making now. I'm sorry Bern but it's true. I understand you can't help yourself.

 

[bernmeister]

Let's wait for CK to put up a 70+ point season before we say these kinds of things.

Completely fair.
But
1 -- points ain't everything, and CK intangibles are more.
2 -- Let's be fair across the board. Put CK in an offense construct with guys adding to his totals. Right now, I'd say it's not 100% one way, but he is pulling stepan + Nash more than vice versa.

CK, a whole year, with Stastny or MacKinnon -- more level comparison

 

[bernmeister]

I like how you're arrogant enough to think that you have detractors. I also like the fact that you just said you'd take Kreider over Duchene. I mean, really?

I have detractors.
We all have people who politely agree and disagree with each other, including ourselves.

But I have a handful who can't accept my let's think outside the box mentality, there's NO CHANCE it could be right, whether it is as to Kreider, Talbot, or JT Miller. Or trading Stepan.

Much of this is subjective opinion, God bless, to each and everyone their right to free speech. But the emergence of Kreider is an objective fact, not subjective opinion any longer.

But they want to be adamant to the point of arrogant.
So for the 99%+, no prob, we are all respectful members of the fraternity (applies to dudettes as well as dudes).

But those few others, I will call you out on it.

 

[bernmeister]

Other than making really weird trade proposals and clamoring for CK to be tried at center, who exactly are you again? And what "detractors" are these?

I'm sorry, I really don't know why you in any way should receive special treatment.

Not asking for special treatment.

But let's be honest and fair.
I have been all about how trading Stepan/Stepan+ could get us a difference maker.

And the Stepan lovers are all about NO POSSIBLE WAY.
It cannot exist in reality that Brassard could be an acceptable fallback position in that event (even though he did well spelling Step end of a prior season).

Now that Stepan is doing 'ok' and Brassard has outplayed him in the playoffs, I'm going to say, hey, all you pundits who .....GOT IT WRONG.... fess up.

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

OEL? as in the defenseman? why compare a forward to a dman? That's just dumb.

I would say you can say kreider is at least as good as ROR if not better but saying that he's better than duchene is a no-no.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Yeah I'd rather have Kreider than ROR tbh, especially for this team. He is SO unique. Size, blazing speed, a great shot, high motor, and he's adding a nasty streak to his game. He's evolving into a top-tier power forward.

Not to say ROR isn't awesome...it could definitely be argued that he's a better player than Kreider. I don't think he is as rare as a player like Kreider is, though.

 

[bernmeister]

....

Truthfully for our purposes right now I think I'd prefer Kreider over Duchene. The first two games he's driven at least a good part of the Canadiens team plus the majority of their fan base to distraction and it's to the point now that I'm very amused. His return to the lineup helped mightily to get us over the Penguin hump and now we're cruising through Montreal and he's been front, line and left wing.

FWIW Kreider should become a legit 1st line power forward. O'Reilly might outscore him but O'Reilly is no power forward and he can't skate anywhere near as well as CK. I would love to have O'Reilly on the Rangers--we share the same last name--but not at the expense of Kreider.

eco's bones, I do not always agree with you, but I salute you for being honest and having an open mind.

And again, in leaning kreider I am taking into account other factors, defense, intangibles from the speed/strength, potential, differential if both had close to identical linemates.

As far as Bernmeister though--this Kreider-Keon thing is nutty. I really wish he would drop that and the **** about putting Kreider at center. For those who don't know who he's talking about Keon played for the Leafs in the late 50's and his career stretched into the 70's. He was a very good player--a center who never--or hardly ever took penalties--he was about 5'8 and a playmaker type. How or why he compares him to Kreider I still haven't figured out--we've argued about it before.

Keon was not a big guy, you note that accurately
But he used his speed to play big.
It was a noticeable difference maker. That's all I was going for.
I brought him up because we KNEW when we drafted kreider, a skinny kid, that THEN he was one of the top 5 or so skaters in the league. But everything else was a crap shoot. We got very lucky.
that is why I said at minimum, Keon.
The Keon days are passed.
It is now Bure to stay.
As for C, I disagree with those who say he couldn't handle it (which he did in his formative years, if I'm not mistaken).
Someone brought up that my thinking that was a fatal flaw in my Kreider thinking.
Not at all.
I think in the interests of max variety, and flexbility and options, once he's mastered LW, he can do some shifts in the pivot.
Never know when something like that is useful during a game, if a couple of guys get injured.

Bernmeister as we all know as well is trade happy--and if it were up to him the Rangers would have traded 3/4 of our current roster for mostly projects and prospects and we wouldn't be making this improbable Stanley Cup run that we're making now. I'm sorry Bern but it's true. I understand you can't help yourself.

I don't know about 3/4, but yeah I would have traded guys for SOLID prospects with upside.

I pushed for deals cause we needed to improve the team, build + try for difference makers.

You admit it is an improbable Cup run, and it is like the '69 mets.
You manage on paper, the reality. On paper, no way Swoboda + co defeat Frank Robinson + co.

Actually one way: Divine Intervention.
So I'm happy if we can make it all the way.

I'm sorry Bern but it's true. I understand you can't help yourself.

No apology needed, friend.
Tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

I prefer CK over OEL, because we Kreider fills a huge need for us, and we already have probably the best D corps in the league. Not sure about ROR, but it should be interesting to compare the two of them in 2 years.

 

[pld459666]

Not asking for special treatment.

But let's be honest and fair.
I have been all about how trading Stepan/Stepan+ could get us a difference maker.

And the Stepan lovers are all about NO POSSIBLE WAY.
It cannot exist in reality that Brassard could be an acceptable fallback position in that event (even though he did well spelling Step end of a prior season).

Now that Stepan is doing 'ok' and Brassard has outplayed him in the playoffs, I'm going to say, hey, all you pundits who .....GOT IT WRONG.... fess up.

Bern

Be fair.

Your trade proposals include Stepan, Staal AND Girardi in deals for players that are marginally better than Stepan alone.

We have had this discussion.

People are OK with trading Stepan and a marginal add for a marginal up grade. We are not, and will not be OK with the add-ons that you throw in with complete disregard to their value and support their inclusion by claiming "you have to give to get" or the other gem no Coke for Pepsi

 

[YoSoyLalo]

I prefer CK over OEL, because we Kreider fills a huge need for us, and we already have probably the best D corps in the league. Not sure about ROR, but it should be interesting to compare the two of them in 2 years.

I think OEL is a better player than Kreider individually, but, yeah, no way I'd swap him for OEL considering the roster.

 

[eco's bones]

eco's bones, I do not always agree with you, but I salute you for being honest and having an open mind.

And again, in leaning kreider I am taking into account other factors, defense, intangibles from the speed/strength, potential, differential if both had close to identical linemates.



Keon was not a big guy, you note that accurately
But he used his speed to play big.
It was a noticeable difference maker. That's all I was going for.
I brought him up because we KNEW when we drafted kreider, a skinny kid, that THEN he was one of the top 5 or so skaters in the league. But everything else was a crap shoot. We got very lucky.
that is why I said at minimum, Keon.
The Keon days are passed.
It is now Bure to stay.
As for C, I disagree with those who say he couldn't handle it (which he did in his formative years, if I'm not mistaken).
Someone brought up that my thinking that was a fatal flaw in my Kreider thinking.
Not at all.
I think in the interests of max variety, and flexbility and options, once he's mastered LW, he can do some shifts in the pivot.
Never know when something like that is useful during a game, if a couple of guys get injured.



I don't know about 3/4, but yeah I would have traded guys for SOLID prospects with upside.

I pushed for deals cause we needed to improve the team, build + try for difference makers.

You admit it is an improbable Cup run, and it is like the '69 mets.
You manage on paper, the reality. On paper, no way Swoboda + co defeat Frank Robinson + co.

Actually one way: Divine Intervention.
So I'm happy if we can make it all the way.


No apology needed, friend.
Tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide.

The only thing I give a **** about is winning the Cup. I don't really give a crap about the Olympics. The team has to make the playoffs--so they have to do well enough in the regular season. I'm a believer in depth throughout the lineup. Good players at every position. You need talented guys but you also need guys with will and some of them might be less talented than others you could have that don't have the will. Talent is necessary but it's not always the be all and end all.

I don't like waiting either--I'm 56--making tons of trades for future projection to be followed by more for those deals that don't work out is not a smart way to go. It's pie in the sky as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to wait until I'm ****ing 86 for the Rangers to win it all again. I might be long gone by then. This team may be built well enough. Guys win and they take that with them and pass it on to the new guys that come along. If we were to win young guys like Stepan, McDonagh, Kreider will be better for it--they'll know they have what it takes. You have to stick with people sometimes Bernmeister. That's all there is to it. It's part of what it takes to build a team. Sticking with people whether you perceive that this guy on some other team or that might be a little bit better now. Sticking with guys who grow together helps build a winning atmosphere.

 

[pld459666]

Not asking for special treatment.

But let's be honest and fair.
I have been all about how trading Stepan/Stepan+ could get us a difference maker.

And the Stepan lovers are all about NO POSSIBLE WAY.
It cannot exist in reality that Brassard could be an acceptable fallback position in that event (even though he did well spelling Step end of a prior season).

Now that Stepan is doing 'ok' and Brassard has outplayed him in the playoffs, I'm going to say, hey, all you pundits who .....GOT IT WRONG.... fess up.

But he hasn't out played him in the PO's

Stepan plays on the PK, Brassard does not. Stepan is, more often than not, playing against opposing teams top checking units, Brassard is not.

And prior to the Montreal Series Stepan was just one point behind Brassard.

Stepan is the superior defensive player

Stepan is the superior offensive player

Stepan IS THE SUPERIOR PLAYER

 

[pld459666]

I think OEL is a better player than Kreider individually, but, yeah, no way I'd swap him for OEL considering the roster.

OEL is almost as good as McDonagh

 

[YoSoyLalo]

OEL is almost as good as McDonagh

I completely agree. He's a beast.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not sure if this was posted already: