Rumor: Chris Johnston: "Wouldn't shock me at all if the Leafs pulled the trigger on Luke Schenn."

[BKarchitect]

Holl and Schenn are actually kinda hard to compare because of their usage.

Holl, for whatever reason, plays 21 minutes per night and ranks 3rd on the Leafs blueline in both total TOI/GP and ES TOI/GP. In essence - his usage rate is that of a #3 defender by the Leafs and he is barely behind Brodie for #2. His analytics are mediocre and he fails the eye test most nights.

Schenn - despite the notion that he logs big minutes handcuffed to Hughes is only 5th on the Canucks depth chart among regular defensemen usage in both TOI/GP and ES TOI/GP. He’s a 17 minute per night bottom pair defenseman who has bad analytics, albeit on a bad team. But he looks good in his role, brings tons of toughness and is less of a muckity muck with the puck than one would think…his 19 ES points is second among Canucks blueliners and would tie for first on the Leafs blueline with Gio - ahead of Rielly. Now nobody thinks he’s some sort of offensive star - he cannot play the PP and is useless in OT but if you limit his minutes - he can be a valuable contributor.

Swapping out Holl (to whomever) for Schenn (for a pick) would probably help the Leafs twofold - it would stop Keefe from playing Justin Holl 21 minutes a night and force him to increase the usage of far superior blueliners like Liljegren. And it would give the Leafs a bottom pair defender who is very good in that role and who would provide a bunch of toughness, experience and leadership.

 

[Cogburn]

There is no way Minten goes for Luke Schenn.

Well, since the article is about the Leafs "pulling the trigger" here, what do you have that Vancouver would want left?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I really don't think some randos opinion is worth the bandwidth but ok.

He's not a random

Well, since the article is about the Leafs "pulling the trigger" here, what do you have that Vancouver would want left?

I don't know I'm not in Vancouver management team but I know Minten wouldn't be the prospect going

 

[Peter Griffin]

Well, since the article is about the Leafs "pulling the trigger" here, what do you have that Vancouver would want left?

A 5th round pick apparently because it’s not like there’s a handful of teams interested in Schenn.

 

[Cogburn]

I don't know I'm not in Vancouver management team but I know Minten wouldn't be the prospect going

So...the Leafs have nothing I can see that would hold any interest from out side. No draft picks in this round or next, except next year's first (no from Toronto) or a series of statistically insignificant picks (no from Vancouver), Knies, Minten, Niemela, apparently all no from Toronto, Robertson, Amirov, both no from Vancouver being they're both wingers, or a collection of prospects from a random GTA lost and found.

A 5th round pick apparently because it’s not like there’s a handful of teams interested in Schenn.

Fun fact, but only 34% of fifth round picks ever play a single NHL, and 12% of third round picks stick around for 200 games.

Late picks are not valuable, is what I'm saying, Mr. Griffin.

 

[ginner classic]

pass if its anything more than a 3rd/4th rounder


he is not

Yes he is. It's not close.

 

[Kurtz]

Well, since the article is about the Leafs "pulling the trigger" here, what do you have that Vancouver would want left?

What do you think he's worth?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So...the Leafs have nothing I can see that would hold any interest from out side. No draft picks in this round or next, except next year's first (no from Toronto) or a series of statistically insignificant picks (no from Vancouver), Knies, Minten, Niemela, apparently all no from Toronto, Robertson, Amirov, both no from Vancouver being they're both wingers, or a collection of prospects from a random GTA lost and found.


Fun fact, but only 34% of fifth round picks ever play a single NHL, and 12% of third round picks stick around for 200 games.

Late picks are not valuable, is what I'm saying, Mr. Griffin.

If ROR, the #2 rental on the market next to Kane did not get any of the Leafs top prospects, because make no mistake he didn't.

What makes you think Luke Schenn would?

Let's go even further.

If Tarasenko didn't get any of the NYR top prospects what makes you think Luke Schenn would get one of any teams top prospects?

You need to simmer down your expectations, It's Luke Schenn.

 

[Cogburn]

What do you think he's worth?

From most other teams, a second round pick. Toronto is without for the next three years.

 

[Peter Griffin]

What do you think he's worth?

He’s worth whatever the market bears and from all reports there’s at least a handful of teams interested.

If ROR, the #2 rental on the market next to Kane did not get any of the Leafs top prospects, because make no mistake he didn't.

What makes you think Luke Schenn would?

Let's go even further.

If Tarasenko didn't get any of the NYR top prospects what makes you think Luke Schenn would get one of any teams top prospects?

You need to simmer down your expectations, It's Luke Schenn.

Who’s suggesting Schenn will garner a top prospect? We’re simply saying there’s nothing of interest from Toronto that would be available and apparently that’s too hard for you to accept.

 

[Cogburn]

If ROR, the #2 rental on the market next to Kane did not get any of the Leafs top prospects, because make no mistake he didn't.

What makes you think Luke Schenn would?

Let's go even further.

If Tarasenko didn't get any of the NYR top prospects what makes you think Luke Schenn would get one of any teams top prospects?

You need to simmer down your expectations, It's Luke Schenn.

They both received a first round pick (and in ROR's case an additional second and third round pick) in an exceptionally deep draft. Given the choice, I'd rather take the pick, too.

Your top prospects would not be a top prospect league wide. I don't know what you consider a "top prospect", but there are only so many of them in a given organization, and I listed five names that I thought ran up and down your little tier list. Not every prospect is a top prospect.

You need to realise that the rest of the hockey world isn't here to make the Maple Leafs fan base happy.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

As much as we like to hate on Holl, I don't think he is.


He seems to only be a top 6 guy because he plays in Vancouver. Anywhere else he's a 5-8 guy

The last two seasons in a 120 games he has 38 points, 21 in 55 this season. He's a plus 17 and has exclusively been in the top 4 and often top pair with Quinn. He also leads the league in hits and makes 850k.
Saying he is a bottom pairing guy is factually wrong since he's not one here so any other opinion is just that an opinion.

I'm not going to argue his worth because he's worth whatever the team getting him is willing to pay.
I will say tho that the only season that matters for a rental is the current one and he's having a much better season than Chariot was having last year.

I do find it funny and ironic that the ones slagging him are from the east where most times he's playing is at 10pm. So let not pretend he's been watched a lot by the people shitting on him.

 

[Strangelove]

The Schennaplan?

I'll show myself out....

 

[rojac]

Vancouver has lots of picks. Could Toronto trade their 2024 1st or a prospect worth more than Schenn and get an appropriate pick back from Vancouver that makes up the difference? Or is there another asset from Vancouver that Toronto might want as well?

 

[DamonDRW]

Human eraser I still remember this shit when they drafted him. On par with double Dion.

 

[Nhlpowerweek]

Said on his podcast the CJ show that it wouldn't shock him at all if the Leafs pulled the trigger on Luke Schenn.

Now to be fair he does make it sound like they want to do something more significant than Luke Schenn.

I've been driving the Luke Schenn bus for months because I don't believe It's possible for you to have to much defense, in fact the Leafs have proven that, they have used 10 or 11 this year.

But I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't prefer a bigger move than Luke Schenn.

I think Toronto needs to load up as much as possible so I'm hoping for more than Luke Schenn.

Yean they doon it. The doin it. Hard. Getting even more. Him. P.kane maybe. Maybe jeannot on them. Something like a hitting wing and all.

 

[sting101]

Guess he's had a bit of a career resurgence. Felt like he was almost out of the league at one point a few years back. That or my memory is very faulty, which is distinctly possible.

Yes he was in the minors for a bit. I pretty much scoffed at the acquisition for most of the first training camp after he signed. By the New Year was pleasantly surprised and waited for an inevitable drop off.....it never came.

Absolutely he has had a renaissance. He stopped trying to chase the game and let it come to him. Moves pucks quickly and does everything assertively and with power. Very few mistakes and is smart. Resists the chasing game but when players are within a burst can move quickly and then just blows them up he's crazy strong and players get punished that try to get by or through him. He's become very effective.

Playing with Hughes allows him to play the stay at home game and not have to support off rush offense so thats been a part to his success. If he's playing with a big slow unsupportive type on LD it may not work very well. I would think Sandin would be a good partner if he goes to TO

 

[Kurtz]

They both received a first round pick (and in ROR's case an additional second and third round pick) in an exceptionally deep draft. Given the choice, I'd rather take the pick, too.

Your top prospects would not be a top prospect league wide. I don't know what you consider a "top prospect", but there are only so many of them in a given organization, and I listed five names that I thought ran up and down your little tier list. Not every prospect is a top prospect.

You need to realise that the rest of the hockey world isn't here to make the Maple Leafs fan base happy.

Why are we talking about "top prospects" in a Schenn thread? Surely you don't think teams will be dipping into their top prospects pool to get him....

According to recent publications, Leafs system is ranked 19th or 20th league wide. As folks have noted Knies is the best of the bunch and if he's really nothing to write home about, as folks here suggest, that would mean the farm is filled with quality b-level prospects...exactly the type that would be in the conversation for Schenn.

Now I'm assuming you haven't seen any of the Leafs prospects actually play (except for maybe Knies, Topi and Roni at the WJC... who all showed very well at the tourney), so how can you be so full of conviction about the Leafs not having enough to put together a prospect package that would be the equivalent of a late 2nd round pick?

 

[Cogburn]

Vancouver has lots of picks. Could Toronto trade their 2024 1st or a prospect worth more than Schenn and get an appropriate pick back from Vancouver that makes up the difference? Or is there another asset from Vancouver that Toronto might want as well?

Well our second is projecting pretty high, so I don't think there is a lot of common ground between Schenn and your pick in that specific regard. It would only be moving us 10-15 spots.

It is more about which assets Toronto can afford, as most of our available players are signed to multiyear, multimillion cap hits, unless you're digging some of our bottom six players. Hoglander might be the exception, but he will likely be due for a raise, and there is no guarantee he will simply snap back into the form we saw last year.

If Toronto had a truly toxic contract, of had a bunch of ringers lined up to take the places of Kerfood, Engvall and Holl, who collectively were holding back another trade, that could be another idea. Something tells me the desire to offload single year cap dumps doesn't bridge the gap either though.

Its an interesting thought, but I don't know how practical we can make it.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The last two seasons in a 120 games he has 38 points, 21 in 55 this season. He's a plus 17 and has exclusively been in the top 4 and often top pair with Quinn. He also leads the league in hits and makes 850k.
Saying he is a bottom pairing guy is factually wrong since he's not one here so any other opinion is just that an opinion.

I'm not going to argue his worth because he's worth whatever the team getting him is willing to pay.
I will say tho that the only season that matters for a rental is the current one and he's having a much better season than Chariot was having last year.

I do find it funny and ironic that the ones slagging him are from the east where most times he's playing is at 10pm. So let not pretend he's been watched a lot by the people shitting on him.

There is 1 problem with what you wrote, and It's that we don't need to watch him every night, we did that for 4 years, we know exactly what Luke Schenn is.

That's why when well hear things like Minten we kind of laugh because we know that's not realistic.

 

[Cogburn]

Why are we talking about "top prospects" in a Schenn thread? Surely you don't think teams will be dipping into their top prospects pool to get him....

According to recent publications, Leafs system is ranked 19th or 20th league wide. As folks have noted Knies is the best of the bunch and if he's really nothing to write home about, as folks here suggest, that would mean the farm is filled with quality b-level prospects...exactly the type that would be in the conversation for Schenn.

Now I'm assuming you haven't seen any of the Leafs prospects actually play (except for maybe Knies, Topi and Roni at the WJC... who all showed very well at the tourney), so how can you be so full of conviction about the Leafs not having enough to put together a prospect package that would be the equivalent of a late 2nd round pick?

Aha. I think we've got a wire or two crossed.

Knies is the stand out prospect, who I said would be a hard no by Toronto, along with a few of the others listed. Filled with "B" level prospects might be a little strong, but I would consider the top side of your prospect pool to have some, yes. Are we talking of Robertson, Niemela or Minten as "B" tier, or are we talking about Voit, Holmberg or Abbruzzese.

That isn't quite true either, I am a fan of AHL streams when they're available. I get the odd Buds game. That's just it though, you're saying a "package of", implying multiple, lesser pieces. You can claim you get can get the value of a 2nd round pick by piecing together multiple, lesser, picks, but we all know where the best odds of a good prospect would come from. We don't want a series of 5th round picks, we'd want a (late) 2nd round pick in a deep draft.

I suggested Minten, himself a late 2nd round pick, and a third, and the poster I replied to in the post you quoted aggressively and characteristically shut down the idea of Minten being available, calling him a top prospect. along with names like Knies (duh), Niemela (sure), Amirov (I understand not wanting to move him, but all things considered) and Robertson (who's value and perception has taken a beating, but sure). Where is the line for a top prospect, then? Top 5? Top 10?

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Lol you Leaf fans clearly haven't watched Schenn recently. He's twice as good as Holl. If you don't want him fine!

 

[JKG33]

There's a lot of people in this thread subtly pointing out they don't pay attention to the league outside of their own team's little bubble.

This ain't the same Schenn that was run outta Toronto and proceeded to bounce around the league and wind up on waivers. He's settled in nicely as a steady top 4 defensive d-man that can chip in a few points. If he's on the top pair you're in trouble, but I'd happily take him as a 2nd pairing guy on the Leafs. He's worlds better than Holl, and he's much better suited to playoff hockey than Liljgren and Sandin.

 

[Cogburn]

There is 1 problem with what you wrote, and It's that we don't need to watch him every night, we did that for 4 years, we know exactly what Luke Schenn is.

That's why when well hear things like Minten we kind of laugh because we know that's not realistic.

So you formed an opinion 11 years ago, and are sticking to it in light of new evidence. I mean....I'm speechless.

 

[Takumi3000]

The last two seasons in a 120 games he has 38 points, 21 in 55 this season. He's a plus 17 and has exclusively been in the top 4 and often top pair with Quinn. He also leads the league in hits and makes 850k.
Saying he is a bottom pairing guy is factually wrong since he's not one here so any other opinion is just that an opinion.

I'm not going to argue his worth because he's worth whatever the team getting him is willing to pay.
I will say tho that the only season that matters for a rental is the current one and he's having a much better season than Chariot was having last year.

I do find it funny and ironic that the ones slagging him are from the east where most times he's playing is at 10pm. So let not pretend he's been watched a lot by the people shitting on him.

You forgot to mention the position he plays which is RD!