News Article: Chris Ilitch noncommittal on Holland’s return

[StargateSG1]

Based on the article you throw Martin under the bus! I didn't realize he was the de facto GM all this time.

Sounds like a desperate attempt to hold on to the cushy job without any accountability by Kenny.
Martin just calculates the cap space to fit Kenny's stupid contracts under the cap.

Chris I cannot possibly be buying that.
I think it's very telling he won't even talk to him;.

 

[jkutswings]

Is this satire?

Did Blashill cut off Nyquist's hands and feet and replace them with rocks?

Haha, now I want to see a photoshop of Nyquist with rocks for hands and feet.

 

[TatarTangle]

Haha, now I want to see a photoshop of Nyquist with rocks for hands and feet.

Calling FlashyG

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I'm officially on the Draper for GM bandwagon now.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think Kenny's own interviews will be his undoing, finally.
How can you task someone with the rebuild when he is on record saying he doesn't believe in rebuilds?

As with most things Holland has said over the last 5 years, people love latching onto out-of-context quotes and pretending it's things Kenny throws out there like blanket statements. Nothing he has ever said has indicated he doesn't believe in rebuilds. The type of rebuild he believes in just may not be the "sell everything, deliberately become as bad as humanly possibly and pray for luck in the lottery"-variety though.

 

[Henkka]

Who do you replace? Wright? Howe? I sure hope Ilitch starts at the top given how bad Holland's tenure had been the past 5 years. He had a great run, it's time to get a new guy to run the organization IMO.

Disagree. Imo, Holland would be a great rebuilder, if given an order from the owner to rebuild. So far, under Mike Ilitch, his order was to succeed at any cost.

 

[Henkka]

Watching that video shows me how much Nyquist has regressed under trashill. Look at those moves.

Naah. It's more of Datsyuk gone and Nyquist facing toughest matchups at the top line. It will look as a regression, if you don't understand these things. He shined against easier competition, and does not have potential to be elite 1st line player. He will never shine as a top line player in any team, but would be a great middle6 threat in deep contenders.

 

[aar000n]

Is that true of every player because they all have regressed under trashill. Its hard to believe that everyone is facing the other teams top lines now.

 

[Flowah]

Is that true of every player because they all have regressed under trashill. Its hard to believe that everyone is facing the other teams top lines now.

They haven't all regressed. Larkin's having his best season.

And if Nyquist has to move into harder matchups, so does every player under him. Obviously.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

As with most things Holland has said over the last 5 years, people love latching onto out-of-context quotes and pretending it's things Kenny throws out there like blanket statements. Nothing he has ever said has indicated he doesn't believe in rebuilds. The type of rebuild he believes in just may not be the "sell everything, deliberately become as bad as humanly possibly and pray for luck in the lottery"-variety though.

“When you look at these teams that you might think are the best teams in the National Hockey League, some of these teams made the playoffs maybe once in 10 years before they went into this run,” Holland said, “or they missed the playoffs five straight years.
“I’m not doing that,” Holland said.

Ken Holland Doesn't Think The Red Wings Need A 'Rebuild'

“I think we want to be competitive,” Red Wings GM Ken Holland said on Prime Time Sports Thursday evening. “I’m a general manager and as long as I’m a general manager I want us to be the very best we can be. I don’t believe in tear downs and massive rebuilds because I don’t believe you can just guarantee the end result is going to turn out to be Stanley Cups and dynasties. You could go in the wilderness.

Red Wings GM: 'I don't believe in tear downs and massive rebuilds' - Sportsnet.ca

Are those out of context? Or did Holland do an about-face when he realized he built a terrible roster?

 

[TheMule93]

Well Holland, we've missed the playoffs twice in a row. You said we aren't going to miss 5x in a row. The pressure is on.

 

[Claypool]

Is that true of every player because they all have regressed under trashill. Its hard to believe that everyone is facing the other teams top lines now.

Tatar really turned his career around in Vegas. Same thing for Mrazek in Philly.

 

[Henkka]

Is that true of every player because they all have regressed under trashill. Its hard to believe that everyone is facing the other teams top lines now.

Former 4th liners facing 3rd liners, former 3rd liners facing 2nd liners. Former 2nd liner facing 1st liners.

Don't you guys just get it? Simple things.

When you lose the elite core, everybody drops on the wrong level. The depth disappears at same moment. Easy-matchup kids look suddenly bad. As an example, this did happen for the Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar line. Some kid like Larkin will develop and can raise one or two levels in time, but the whole core just can't, if you haven't drafted multiple great talents.

.

 

[HIFE]

...Are those out of context? Or did Holland do an about-face when he realized he built a terrible roster?

Thanks for posting those quotes. Holland is absolutely flip-flopping all over the place. I don't think he can help himself, everything that comes out of his mouth is a contradiction. More absurdity from Mlive:

"I'm expecting two or three more younger players on the roster next year, maybe not at the start, but hopefully at the start".

"We're trying to get these players to Detroit as quickly as possible but get them here when they're ready".

Translation in Holland-speak: Expect possibly one prospect in the lineup next season.

You ever notice Holland's interviews and press conferences (at least locally) are edited? If the public could hear the fullness of his train of thought he's be torn to pieces.

 

[aceman80]

Disagree. Imo, Holland would be a great rebuilder, if given an order from the owner to rebuild. So far, under Mike Ilitch, his order was to succeed at any cost.

This.
Many young guys in here forget that he has done it in the past and did it well.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Thanks for posting those quotes. Holland is absolutely flip-flopping all over the place. I don't think he can help himself, everything that comes out of his mouth is a contradiction. More absurdity from Mlive:

"I'm expecting two or three more younger players on the roster next year, maybe not at the start, but hopefully at the start".

"We're trying to get these players to Detroit as quickly as possible but get them here when they're ready".

Translation in Holland-speak: Expect possibly one prospect in the lineup next season.

You ever notice Holland's interviews and press conferences (at least locally) are edited? If the public could hear the fullness of his train of thought he's be torn to pieces.

Yep, the Holland supporters were all LOL u want to be the Oilerz! And now they're like Holland was told to remain competitive despite the fact every report has indicated the Ilitch's have let him have full say in how the organization has been run.

Not a surprise they want to change the narrative, worst ROW in the league, awful drafting, terrible salary cap issues, and nothing done to address the defense going on five years.

So yes, let's blame Ryan Martin and the Ilitch family.

 

[Henkka]

Yep, the Holland supporters were all LOL u want to be the Oilerz! And now they're like Holland was told to remain competitive despite the fact every report has indicated the Ilitch's have let him have full say in how the organization has been run.

Not a surprise they want to change the narrative, worst ROW in the league, awful drafting, terrible salary cap issues, and nothing done to address the defense going on five years.

So yes, let's blame Ryan Martin and the Ilitch family.

Why can't Ken Holland change his mind or plan?

That's what best managers do. Only fundamental idiots can't do.

Just like these fundamental posters on this board. They give me the best laugh.

 

[Heaton]

Yep, the Holland supporters were all LOL u want to be the Oilerz! And now they're like Holland was told to remain competitive despite the fact every report has indicated the Ilitch's have let him have full say in how the organization has been run.

Not a surprise they want to change the narrative, worst ROW in the league, awful drafting, terrible salary cap issues, and nothing done to address the defense going on five years.

So yes, let's blame Ryan Martin and the Ilitch family.

Assuming Holland is gone after this season, I don't think any foundation has been laid that tells us if the new GM takes over and re-builds this team in 3-5 years that there will be any evidence to say, 'well, he built it with Holland's players'.

Will Hronek or Cholo be franchise defensemen? Maybe, but nothing indicates that level of skill. Larkin looks really good, but #1 center? Nope. This upcoming draft is crucial whether we rebuild in 3-5 years or Holland's 10 year plan.

 

[Heaton]

Why can't Ken Holland change his mind or plan?

That's what best managers do. Only fundamental idiots can't do.

Just like these fundamental posters on this board. They give me the best laugh.

What gives you any indication that he would change his plan? He's been ultra consistent with his message. He isn't changing anything bro.

 

[Henkka]

What gives you any indication that he would change his plan? He's been ultra consistent with his message. He isn't changing anything bro.

What makes you to think the exact opposite? I'm not any righter or wronger than you.

Just think it for a second.

 

[kliq]

Yep, the Holland supporters were all LOL u want to be the Oilerz! And now they're like Holland was told to remain competitive despite the fact every report has indicated the Ilitch's have let him have full say in how the organization has been run.

Not a surprise they want to change the narrative, worst ROW in the league, awful drafting, terrible salary cap issues, and nothing done to address the defense going on five years.

So yes, let's blame Ryan Martin and the Ilitch family.

Can you cite even 1 report that indicates this? You mention it all the time, but I have never read that the Illitches have zero to do with the direction of the team.

And disclaimer, I am not saying that Holland should have zero accountability for anything. He has definitely made mistakes, lots of mistakes. But I have never seen a business model where an owner says "meh, I dont want to have a say" especially when it comes to big picture. I just don't buy it.

99.9% of the time, ownership decides on direction, then asks management (or they do it themselves) to execute on that direction. I'm sure the indivual moves were Holland (ie. re-signing Abby, Helm, signing Nielsen etc.), but the goal of making the playoffs/keeping the streak alive I have to think comes from ownership.

I'm sure the people that loathe Holland will call me an apologist for this, but this is just common sense, but unfortunately emotion will cloud judgement.

As far as your second bold, I agree. Cap wise they definitely have issues, and the D has not been improved in years.

 

[Redder Winger]

So far, under Mike Ilitch, his order was to succeed at any cost.

Baloney.
Show me the evidence of that.

 

[Henkka]

Baloney.
Show me the evidence of that.

Do I have to call for Mike Ilitch or what do you mean?

 

[Redder Winger]

Can you cite even 1 report that indicates this? You mention it all the time, but I have never read that the Illitches have zero to do with the direction of the team.

And disclaimer, I am not saying that Holland should have zero accountability for anything. He has definitely made mistakes, lots of mistakes. But I have never seen a business model where an owner says "meh, I dont want to have a say" especially when it comes to big picture. I just don't buy it.

99.9% of the time, ownership decides on direction, then asks management (or they do it themselves) to execute on that direction. I'm sure the indivual moves were Holland (ie. re-signing Abby, Helm, signing Nielsen etc.), but the goal of making the playoffs/keeping the streak alive I have to think comes from ownership.

I'm sure the people that loathe Holland will call me an apologist for this, but this is just common sense, but unfortunately emotion will cloud judgement.

As far as your second bold, I agree. Cap wise they definitely have issues, and the D has not been improved in years.

Look dude, these people who are trying to make excuses for Holland's pathetic job lately shouldn't put the onus others to prove that Holland wasn't calling the shots.
Red Wings' Ken Holland: Long-term rebuild not the way to go

Ken Holland didn't believe in rebuilding when the Detroit Red Wings were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs three consecutive years.

After missing the postseason for the first time since 1990, he still doesn't believe making wholesale changes is the right course of action.

Holland will tweak the roster, possibly making a couple of trades, maybe adding a free agent or two. But he said much of the improvement must come from within.

The immediate goal is to return to the playoffs next season, the team's first at Little Caesars Arena.

"This weekend when I watched the games against Montreal and New Jersey, it was a reminder of what incredible fans we've got," Holland said Tuesday, during locker clean-out. "We have the best fans in the world. They're passionate. They're incredible. They want to see us in the playoffs. Starting (Wednesday) is the most fun and exciting time of the year and we're not involved and it's incredibly disappointing."

anking, in the hopes of landing high selections (first through third overall) for a few years, is no guarantee of success.

"There are teams out six, eight years of the playoffs," Holland said. "When you're dealing with 18-year-old players and a lottery draft there are no guarantees you're going to come out on the other side with a powerhouse, super-elite team."
"These fans want to watch playoff hockey. Nobody wants to see a rebuild. They want to see us be competitive. They want to see us have a chance to win the Stanley Cup. While we're trying to draft and develop and get better long-term, one of our short-term goals is trying to figure out how to make the team as good as it can be and hope that team can qualify for the playoffs."

Every article I've read about Holland and rebuilding quotes Holland's own views about rebuilding.
I've never once read an article quoting Ilitch saying he wouldn't allow a rebuild.

Ilitch isn't stupid. He had to accumulate all those assets he needed over time. He had to hold on to properties for a long time to get the deal he needed for his arena.
He understands the values of rebuilds.

 

[kliq]

Look dude, these people who are trying to make excuses for Holland's pathetic job lately shouldn't put the onus others to prove that Holland wasn't calling the shots.
Red Wings' Ken Holland: Long-term rebuild not the way to go

I dont see it as an excuse. He made mistakes, I'm not denying that.
I just don't buy that ownership has nothing to do with anything. I have never worked in a business, or with other businesses where ownership has zero say. Maybe you have, I dont know. But I have never seen it and this is the world I work in.

I feel that people think that saying ownership give direction means that Holland made no mistakes. Not the case.