Chris "Excellent powerplay killer" Higgins

[nameless1]

I should have clarified that I don't consider him a reliable source when the question about him being shopped is actually a management issue and not a player issue.

I'm sure he hasn't heard anyting and neither has Higgins

Sure, but there are certain kinds of information he's not going to have. he's told as far as he knows... which is as far as higgins knows... which isn't as far as Linden knows.

Higgins and his brother...
HiggsBroson...
Are very close...
So he has been very good on Higgins news.
Case in point:
HiggsBroson broke Higgins' resigning before anyone.
If he says Higgins is not being shopped...
Then I will tend to believe him.

Here is how I see the situation...
Based on HiggsBroson and y2k's posts:
Benning probably asked around...
To see Higgins' price on the market.
When he finds that there is no market...
He decided to keep him...
Since more holes will be opened up...
If he is traded.
That is why y2k heard Linden said that nobody wants that contract...
And why the Province wrote that Higgins was not actively shopped.

Regardless...
That is just my opinion.

 

[arsmaster*]

Anyone have the link for the site that had Chris Higgins leading the team in scoring chances? Thanks in advance.

 

[Iceberg Slim]

Anyone have the link for the site that had Chris Higgins leading the team in scoring chances? Thanks in advance.

Not sure what site had Higgins leading outright, but he certainly appears to have been among the team leaders in scoring chances during the 2014-15 regular season.

War-on-ice.com has him second (to Daniel) in iSC (individual scoring chances) with 133 (Daniel had 141).

And as far as the team numbers go, war-on-ice.com has Higgins second (to Bonino) in SCF60 (on ice scoring chances for per 60 minutes), 4th in SC+/- (on ice scoring chance differential), and 7th in SCF%Rel (relative scoring chances for percentage of total).

NOTE: above numbers are all for even strength (5v5) and filtered for players with minimum 750 minutes TOI.

EDIT: here's the link: http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.h...&end0=20142015&end1=2015-07-20&splitseasons=0

*need to switch "Columns to Display" from "Prime" to "Scoring Chances" in the drop-down menu

 

[arsmaster*]

Not sure what site had Higgins leading outright, but he certainly appears to have been among the team leaders in scoring chances during the 2014-15 regular season.

War-on-ice.com has him second (to Daniel) in iSC (individual scoring chances) with 133 (Daniel had 141).

And as far as the team numbers go, war-on-ice.com has Higgins second (to Bonino) in SCF60 (on ice scoring chances for per 60 minutes), 4th in SC+/- (on ice scoring chance differential), and 7th in SCF%Rel (relative scoring chances for percentage of total).

NOTE: above numbers are all for even strength (5v5) and filtered for players with minimum 750 minutes TOI.

EDIT: here's the link: http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.h...&end0=20142015&end1=2015-07-20&splitseasons=0

*need to switch "Columns to Display" from "Prime" to "Scoring Chances" in the drop-down menu

Thank you. I have a hard time with that site.

I just find it strange some people talk about Higgins like he's some soft, perimeter playing, slow skating, below average NHL player, when he creates that many chances and produces like a top 6 forward.

He's 152nd in points for forward, anything in the top 180 would be a top 6 forward to me. I actually think he'd produce the same next to Horvat on a 3rd line next season.

Hope he's not turfed for nothing to accommodate the bash brothers.

 

[me2]

Anyone have the link for the site that had Chris Higgins leading the team in scoring chances? Thanks in advance.

That is kind of the problem with Higgins, he is good at just about everything but finishing what his hard work creates. In some ways it makes it worse for him because people just have move misses to remember.

 

[absolute garbage]

That is kind of the problem with Higgins, he is good at just about everything but finishing what his hard work creates. In some ways it makes it worse for him because people just have move misses to remember.

For me there were games last season when watching him was incredibly frustrating. Some nights it seemed like he had lost the ability to play with the puck; couldn't make or take a pass, couldn't get a shot off, barely got the puck deep.

But overall he had a good year again. And for sure all the critisism he got from his abomination of PP performance (and also realizing himself this is not working) affected his confidence, resulting in those butchered simple plays more often than I've seen from him usually.

 

[Jyrki21]

Here is how I see the situation...
Based on HiggsBroson and y2k's posts:
Benning probably asked around...
To see Higgins' price on the market.
When he finds that there is no market...
He decided to keep him...
Since more holes will be opened up...
If he is traded.
That is why y2k heard Linden said that nobody wants that contract...
And why the Province wrote that Higgins was not actively shopped.

Keep in mind that Linden's statement was simply in response to Tanbir's suggestion that he would try to move Higgins for a 2nd round pick if he were in management's shoes. Linden was simply addressing why this suggestion was unrealistic... and honestly I don't even think that it's controversial for him to say so. Higgins' contract is one of the reasons why you wouldn't get great value back for him at his age/production, even if he's still a useful guy. I don't think the player would have actually had to have been shopped actively in order for Linden to conclude that. If Tanbir had said "for a conditional 7th round pick" I'm not so sure Linden would have answered the same way, because that changes the value equation considerably.

That said, it also doesn't mean that Higgins hasn't been shopped, and there's absolutely no reason to think that either Chris or Kevin would know about it if it was happening. I'm sure they've at least looked into it, because they've probably looked at the possibility of moving every player not named Horvat/Miller/Sbisa, particularly Gillis guys.

People are just drawing a lot of conclusions from relatively obvious stuff that does not automatically lead to those conclusions.

 

[Proto]

Ideally, Higgins seems like the ultimate mentor and role player to have on a roster: works hard on and off the ice, intelligent player, great defensively, never complains, and actually contributes positive results.

 

[Proto]

Keep in mind that Linden's statement was simply in response to Tanbir's suggestion that he would try to move Higgins for a 2nd round pick if he were in management's shoes. Linden was simply addressing why this suggestion was unrealistic... and honestly I don't even think that it's controversial for him to say so. Higgins' contract is one of the reasons why you wouldn't get great value back for him at his age/production, even if he's still a useful guy. I don't think the player would have actually had to have been shopped actively in order for Linden to conclude that. If Tanbir had said "for a conditional 7th round pick" I'm not so sure Linden would have answered the same way, because that changes the value equation considerably.

That said, it also doesn't mean that Higgins hasn't been shopped, and there's absolutely no reason to think that either Chris or Kevin would know about it if it was happening. I'm sure they've at least looked into it, because they've probably looked at the possibility of moving every player not named Horvat/Miller/Sbisa, particularly Gillis guys.

People are just drawing a lot of conclusions from relatively obvious stuff that does not automatically lead to those conclusions.

I think any player deserves better than to have one of the people in charge of the team tell fans that nobody wants one of their players. It might be something that comes up when an onerous contract is being moved because a trade has to be facilitated (as was the case with Luongo), but Linden seemingly did it just to defend the shoddy moves the club has been making. He then threw Brian Burke under the bus.

Linden is ruthless that way, which should surprise nobody after his reign as PA president.

Though, to be honest, I actually like that about Linden. I just wish the way he analyzes the game didn't seem like it was frozen in amber one summer in 1994.

The upside of all this is that Higgins won't be dealt, which I'm happy about. I like the guy and enjoy watching him play at 5v5 and on the PK.

 

[Scurr]

I think any player deserves better than to have one of the people in charge of the team tell fans that nobody wants one of their players. It might be something that comes up when an onerous contract is being moved because a trade has to be facilitated (as was the case with Luongo), but Linden seemingly did it just to defend the shoddy moves the club has been making. He then threw Brian Burke under the bus.

Linden is ruthless that way, which should surprise nobody after his reign as PA president.

Though, to be honest, I actually like that about Linden. I just wish the way he analyzes the game didn't seem like it was frozen in amber one summer in 1994.

The upside of all this is that Higgins won't be dealt, which I'm happy about. I like the guy and enjoy watching him play at 5v5 and on the PK.

What makes you think that? Tanbir could have come asked the same question here and got the same response. It should be no secret to anyone that Higgins has little value as long as there are similar players available for free in FA.

 

[Jyrki21]

I think any player deserves better than to have one of the people in charge of the team tell fans that nobody wants one of their players.

Sure, but I'm just saying that responding to a hypothetical scenario posed by Tanbir, and Tanbir alone, can't really be taken as a sign that the player has been shopped. Just like Chris/Kevin not hearing anything can't be taken as a proof that he hasn't.

 

[Proto]

What makes you think that? Tanbir could have come asked the same question here and got the same response. It should be no secret to anyone that Higgins has little value as long as there are similar players available for free in FA.

Well, Linden called them both aside because they were vocally against the direction the club is headed. Linden was in clear damage control mode: look at his fumbling, awkward response to the Weisbrod hire.

Typically, I'd expect anyone running a hockey club to avoid throwing their own players under the bus and telling people nobody wants them. People are free to disagree, of course.

My best guess is that Linden and Benning were not prepared at all for what they faced at that summit and made a number of critical unforced errors as a result. The "Higgins is a glue guy" stuff afterwards was their mea culpa for dragging him into it.

 

[Scurr]

Well, Linden called them both aside because they were vocally against the direction the club is headed. Linden was in clear damage control mode: look at his fumbling, awkward response to the Weisbrod hire.

Typically, I'd expect anyone running a hockey club to avoid throwing their own players under the bus and telling people nobody wants them. People are free to disagree, of course.

My best guess is that Linden and Benning were not prepared at all for what they faced at that summit and made a number of critical unforced errors as a result. The "Higgins is a glue guy" stuff afterwards was their mea culpa for dragging him into it.

Linden gave good ol'Tanbir a lesson in reality. "I'd trade Higgins for a 2nd" is head in the clouds stuff.

It's funny… I wasn't a big fan of Linden as a player. Like you, I was more of a Bure fan… and probably a little too heavily influenced by Don Cherry in my youth. Linden the executive doesn't bother me, though. I thought he would.

 

[Jyrki21]

My best guess is that Linden and Benning were not prepared at all for what they faced at that summit and made a number of critical unforced errors as a result. The "Higgins is a glue guy" stuff afterwards was their mea culpa for dragging him into it.

You really do get the impression that these guys go to bed thinking they have the masses cheering with joy over these brilliant character-driven moves they've been making.

I wonder if Gilman and Crawford were let go because they were 5th on the team in obliviousness.

 

[Proto]

Sure, but I'm just saying that responding to a hypothetical scenario posed by Tanbir, and Tanbir alone, can't really be taken as a sign that the player has been shopped. Just like Chris/Kevin not hearing anything can't be taken as a proof that he hasn't.

As I've said before, if they are just assuming he has no value without at least asking around, that's far more damning. These guys are so desperate for draft picks that they're auctioning off their best goaltender for a 3rd round pick. It would be objectionable (to me) to do that without exploring other ways to acquire these low-value picks.

But, again, I don't really care that much whether Higgins was shopped or not, but I do think telling fans at a public event ("private conversation" or not) that nobody wants a player on your roster is not a good "character" move for the organization. They were caught off guard and went into full damage control mode.

It just seems like the team is in a real hurry to put their spin on things and throw players under the bus: Lack was only seen as a back-up around the league, Kassian might become the "player he thinks he is", etc. Heck, one moment Linden is saying they had better offers for Lack and the next Benning is saying it isn't true.

It just seems like a lot of awkward messaging to me, and it's a shame to see Higgins pulled into it when he's been such a quality player for the team.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Sure, but I'm just saying that responding to a hypothetical scenario posed by Tanbir, and Tanbir alone, can't really be taken as a sign that the player has been shopped. Just like Chris/Kevin not hearing anything can't be taken as a proof that he hasn't.

Such a non-issue that has been blown up to fit an agenda. There is no evidence for anything, either way, and that's all we can really say on the matter.

 

[Proto]

Such a non-issue that has been blown up to fit an agenda. There is no evidence for anything, either way, and that's all we can really say on the matter.

That's fair enough. I just dislike management talking down players (whether it's honest or not) in order to defend what they're doing. I think it can be done more artfully than that with the same message being presented.

Also, as I said, I like Higgins quite a bit and would prefer him to be on the team, so I don't have a lot of problem with it.

 

[PM]

I would much rather have Higgins on this team at 2.5 than Dorsett or Prust at 2.5, especially considering we don't really need two of Dorsett and Prust who fill an almost identical role (that is quickly becoming extinct).

 

[Huggy]

27 points and 120 hits is extinct bahahahah

 

[absolute garbage]

I'm pretty sure it's just dumb, incompetent rookie management team that have no idea what they are doing and making stuff up as they go.

Linden is the poster boy and a feel good character of all that, but seems bright enough as a person to learn that you can't say stuff like that even if it's only one on one talks with fans.

I'm sure this won't happen again at least from his mouth.

 

[alternate]

I would much rather have Higgins on this team at 2.5 than Dorsett or Prust at 2.5, especially considering we don't really need two of Dorsett and Prust who fill an almost identical role (that is quickly becoming extinct).

Not extinct, just evolving. Every Stanley Cup winner has a couple of Prust/Dorsett types.

CHI:
Marcus Kruger - 81 GPs / 13:05 TOI / 17 points / 32 PIMs
Daniel Carcillo - 39 GPs/ 8:11 TOI / 8 points / 54 PIMS
Andrew Shaw - 79 / 14:56 / 26 / 67
Bryan Bickell - 81 / 12:04 / 28 / 38
Not that they're all identical players to Prust/Dorsett, but they're bottom 6 players that put up comparable production to Dorsett last year, and provide some of what he does.

LAK:
Kyle Clifford - 71 / 10:09 / 8 / 81
Jordan Nolan - 64 / 9:00 / 10 / 51
Trevor Lewis - 73 / 13:15 / 11/ 6
Even a Dustin Brown only put up 27 points in nearly 16:00 mins per night, plus the Kings used players like Daniel Carcillo, Matt Frattin and Colin Fraser for 25-40 games each.

CHI (shortened season):
Brandon Bollig - 25 / 8:00 / 0 / 51
Sheldon Brookbank - 26 / 12:45 / 1 / 21
Jamal Mayers - 19 / 6:58 / 2 / 16
Daniel Carcillo - 23 / 8:58 / 3 / 11 (apparently if you want a cup, you get Carcillo on your roster)

LAK:
Kevin Westgarth - 25 / 5:15 / 2 / 39
Trevor Lewis - 72 / 13:14 / 7 / 26
Colin Fraser - 67 / 9:44 / 8 / 67
Brad Richardson - 59 / 12:51 / 8 / 30
Plus they had Trent Hunter, Jordan Nolan and Ethan Moreau all average about 30 games and produce 4-7 points each.

BOS:
Shawn Thornton - 79 / 10:04 / 20 / 122

CHI
Ben Eager, Colin Fraser

PIT
Eric Godard

Even DET in 2009 dressed a pure goon for 51 games in Aaron Downey.

Now not every player listed here is a perfect comparison to Prust/Dorsett, and some are more in the Higgins vein. The point is that you can absolutely win a Stanley Cup with these kinds of players, and no one really goes "full skill" through all 4 lines. This year's CHI team is as close to that as you find (unless you consider guys like Maltby, Drake and Draper from Detroit "full skill"), and they still played Carcillo in nearly half their regular season games. This offseason also showed their team isn't sustainable in the cap era, and, well, they're a different kettle of fish than the rest of the league so pointing to them as "how it's done" isn't overly helpful.

 

[me2]

Not extinct, just evolving. Every Stanley Cup winner has a couple of Prust/Dorsett types.

CHI:
Marcus Kruger - 81 GPs / 13:05 TOI / 17 points / 32 PIMs
Daniel Carcillo - 39 GPs/ 8:11 TOI / 8 points / 54 PIMS
Andrew Shaw - 79 / 14:56 / 26 / 67
Bryan Bickell - 81 / 12:04 / 28 / 38
Not that they're all identical players to Prust/Dorsett, but they're bottom 6 players that put up comparable production to Dorsett last year, and provide some of what he does.

LAK:
Kyle Clifford - 71 / 10:09 / 8 / 81
Jordan Nolan - 64 / 9:00 / 10 / 51
Trevor Lewis - 73 / 13:15 / 11/ 6
Even a Dustin Brown only put up 27 points in nearly 16:00 mins per night, plus the Kings used players like Daniel Carcillo, Matt Frattin and Colin Fraser for 25-40 games each.

CHI (shortened season):
Brandon Bollig - 25 / 8:00 / 0 / 51
Sheldon Brookbank - 26 / 12:45 / 1 / 21
Jamal Mayers - 19 / 6:58 / 2 / 16
Daniel Carcillo - 23 / 8:58 / 3 / 11 (apparently if you want a cup, you get Carcillo on your roster)

LAK:
Kevin Westgarth - 25 / 5:15 / 2 / 39
Trevor Lewis - 72 / 13:14 / 7 / 26
Colin Fraser - 67 / 9:44 / 8 / 67
Brad Richardson - 59 / 12:51 / 8 / 30
Plus they had Trent Hunter, Jordan Nolan and Ethan Moreau all average about 30 games and produce 4-7 points each.

BOS:
Shawn Thornton - 79 / 10:04 / 20 / 122

CHI
Ben Eager, Colin Fraser

PIT
Eric Godard

Even DET in 2009 dressed a pure goon for 51 games in Aaron Downey.

Now not every player listed here is a perfect comparison to Prust/Dorsett, and some are more in the Higgins vein. The point is that you can absolutely win a Stanley Cup with these kinds of players, and no one really goes "full skill" through all 4 lines. This year's CHI team is as close to that as you find (unless you consider guys like Maltby, Drake and Draper from Detroit "full skill"), and they still played Carcillo in nearly half their regular season games. This offseason also showed their team isn't sustainable in the cap era, and, well, they're a different kettle of fish than the rest of the league so pointing to them as "how it's done" isn't overly helpful.

And if they were paid like these players there would not be an issue. Knock $1-1.5m off each and the complaints start going away.

If you want to go down the Bickell earns more path well there is a reason he is considered a negative value cap dump by fans who would love to have his contract gone. But even then in Bickell's case he has some playoff reputation, 20 goals in 79 playoff games, 39 points. Dorset and Prust have 2 goals in 96 games.

 

[mathonwy]

So Higgins has slowly but surely rounded a corner in terms of his physical conditioning.

Doesn't look anywhere close as slow as when he got back from injury.

He's generating the occasional scoring chance and had a season high 4 SOG versus Buffalo.

But he's still Higgins and he's still not doing too much in O-zone in general.

Do you think we could get a 4th for Higgins?

 

[Ho Borvat]

So Higgins has slowly but surely rounded a corner in terms of his physical conditioning.

Do you think we could get a 4th for Higgins?

I was a big Chris Higgins supporter, and argued over the value of him in the lineup over Dorsett/Prust ad nauseum this off-season.

With that said, I think you need to create a spot on the roster for one of Gaunce/Kenins/Grenier sooner, rather than later. At the very least, for a team that lacks secondary scoring, I think his minutes should be going to Baertschi.

Sedin Sedin Hansen
Baertschi McCann Vrbata
Kenins Horvat Burrows
Dorsett Cracknell Prust

 

[fancouver]

Not extinct, just evolving. Every Stanley Cup winner has a couple of Prust/Dorsett types.

CHI:
Marcus Kruger - 81 GPs / 13:05 TOI / 17 points / 32 PIMs
Daniel Carcillo - 39 GPs/ 8:11 TOI / 8 points / 54 PIMS
Andrew Shaw - 79 / 14:56 / 26 / 67
Bryan Bickell - 81 / 12:04 / 28 / 38
Not that they're all identical players to Prust/Dorsett, but they're bottom 6 players that put up comparable production to Dorsett last year, and provide some of what he does.

LAK:
Kyle Clifford - 71 / 10:09 / 8 / 81
Jordan Nolan - 64 / 9:00 / 10 / 51
Trevor Lewis - 73 / 13:15 / 11/ 6
Even a Dustin Brown only put up 27 points in nearly 16:00 mins per night, plus the Kings used players like Daniel Carcillo, Matt Frattin and Colin Fraser for 25-40 games each.

CHI (shortened season):
Brandon Bollig - 25 / 8:00 / 0 / 51
Sheldon Brookbank - 26 / 12:45 / 1 / 21
Jamal Mayers - 19 / 6:58 / 2 / 16
Daniel Carcillo - 23 / 8:58 / 3 / 11 (apparently if you want a cup, you get Carcillo on your roster)

LAK:
Kevin Westgarth - 25 / 5:15 / 2 / 39
Trevor Lewis - 72 / 13:14 / 7 / 26
Colin Fraser - 67 / 9:44 / 8 / 67
Brad Richardson - 59 / 12:51 / 8 / 30
Plus they had Trent Hunter, Jordan Nolan and Ethan Moreau all average about 30 games and produce 4-7 points each.

BOS:
Shawn Thornton - 79 / 10:04 / 20 / 122

CHI
Ben Eager, Colin Fraser

PIT
Eric Godard

Even DET in 2009 dressed a pure goon for 51 games in Aaron Downey.

Now not every player listed here is a perfect comparison to Prust/Dorsett, and some are more in the Higgins vein. The point is that you can absolutely win a Stanley Cup with these kinds of players, and no one really goes "full skill" through all 4 lines. This year's CHI team is as close to that as you find (unless you consider guys like Maltby, Drake and Draper from Detroit "full skill"), and they still played Carcillo in nearly half their regular season games. This offseason also showed their team isn't sustainable in the cap era, and, well, they're a different kettle of fish than the rest of the league so pointing to them as "how it's done" isn't overly helpful.

The problem is the Canucks top 6 are nowhere close to winning a cup, so the 4th line is the least important at this point. But like Nonis said, you always build from the net out.