Chicago vs Pittsburgh: Which is the greater franchise in this generation?

[BigKing]

Yeah but it makes sense to start from 2005-2006. It being right after the lockout and with all the rule changes, that is pretty much the start of the era/generation that we are in.

It makes sense if you're looking for the answer to be Pittsburgh, you know?

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

It makes sense if you're looking for the answer to be Pittsburgh, you know?

so did this generation start in 2010?

heck even if it did Chicago getting swept in the first round and then missing the playoffs is downright embarrassing and taints their run

 

[Megahab]

It makes sense if you're looking for the answer to be Pittsburgh, you know?

No, 2005 was the start of a new era. The new NHL. I am saying that unbiased.

What year would you consider the start of this generation?

 

[daver]

Except for the whole gimpy stralman and no stamkos thing.

Because Stamkos (1 assist vs. the Hawks) was such a difference maker?

Pens had a gimpy Malkin in 2015. And no Letang, a concussed Crosby, and a number of other players MIA last year.

This is a very weak argument.

 

[daver]

OP's question is obviously slanted towards Pittsburgh due to the start of the range.

Chicago has the best peak, however, with 2013-'15. Back-to-Back is impressive, obviously, but Pitt is now at the same 2-in-3 years as that Chicago period with the Hawks only missing out on a 3-peat by losing in the OT of Game 7 of the WCF. Feels like Chicago was feared more league-wide during that stretch than Pittsburgh has been.

It's funny that Pittsburgh didn't do much after the '09 Cup win until the last two seasons, but that doesn't take away from the '09 team while the Hawks and Kings recent struggles somehow makes their respective Cup-winning teams not as good in retrospect.

Its pretty cute.

That's a Conn Smythe winning strawman if I ever heard one.

As for the OP being slanted towards the Pens, what is your suggestion for an OP that you think would be not slanted?

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Looking at the start-points of both teams,east vs west and the Crosby factor, i'd have to choose the Blackhawks
- not a biased choice -

 

[Loseipeg]

Because Stamkos (1 assist vs. the Hawks) was such a difference maker?

Pens had a gimpy Malkin in 2015. And no Letang, a concussed Crosby, and a number of other players MIA last year.

This is a very weak argument.

Now youre switching to assists stamkos had when you started off discussing shot differential? Gee i wonder whether stamkos and stralman vs ahlers wouldve tilted the shots more. Then again this is the guy who thought crosby should win hart and conn smythe this year due to “grace period” so hes proven himself blind and illogical already.

 

[CartographerNo611]

I despise the Pens but they are the better franchise for this generation. If they actually had a coach during Blysma's beach ball years they would have another ring or 2 in their collection.

 

[Boxscore]

This will go to the Penguins, mostly due to marquee value. Let's be brutally honest.

The Hawks teams, to a man, were better "teams" with better "overall talent" for sure. They've won Cups, then had to get rid of players like Ladd, Byfuglien, etc. and they still won more Cups. They were rock solid in goal, had an elite, top D-pairing, one of the elite wingers (Kane) and a leader up the middle who could rival Sid in that department (Toews). The Pens won Cups thanks to Sid, Geno and a Fleury/Murray tandem. Letang couldn't hold Keith's stick, and the Pens won without him anyway. Kessel, while very good, is no Patty Kane.

The Hawks were deep and loaded, the Pens were top-heavy, but very fortunate to get outstanding production from players who stepped their games up in the playoffs like Kunitz and Guentzel.

So, the Hawks, were "better teams" IMO but the Pens had 87 and 71 - the two best players out of either team. And Sid will likely go down as a Top-10 player in NHL history when it's all said and done.

The Pens win this on style points.

 

[daver]

This will go to the Penguins, mostly due to marquee value. Let's be brutally honest.

The Hawks teams, to a man, were better "teams" with better "overall talent" for sure. They've won Cups, then had to get rid of players like Ladd, Byfuglien, etc. and they still won more Cups. They were rock solid in goal, had an elite, top D-pairing, one of the elite wingers (Kane) and a leader up the middle who could rival Sid in that department (Toews). The Pens won Cups thanks to Sid, Geno and a Fleury/Murray tandem. Letang couldn't hold Keith's stick, and the Pens won without him anyway. Kessel, while very good, is no Patty Kane.

The Hawks were deep and loaded, the Pens were top-heavy, but very fortunate to get outstanding production from players who stepped their games up in the playoffs like Kunitz and Guentzel.

So, the Hawks, were "better teams" IMO but the Pens had 87 and 71 - the two best players out of either team. And Sid will likely go down as a Top-10 player in NHL history when it's all said and done.

The Pens win this on style points.

Why do you feel the need to start your post by playing the "bias" card? The Pens should be viewed as better on almost every metric:

More SCF appearances
More playoff appearances
More playoff wins in games and series
Better regular season record

As for the better "team", line up their respective Cup winning teams, and tell me which one had the most top heavy performance vs. a whole team effort?

I would say the Pens would be at the top of both lists. The 2009 team was very top heavy but the Hawks in 2010 wasn't that far behind. The Pens 2016 effort was a whole team effort and arguably the most dominant Cup team between the two.

 

[Voight]

so did this generation start in 2010?

heck even if it did Chicago getting swept in the first round and then missing the playoffs is downright embarrassing and taints their run

Lose your starting goalie for over half the season and make the playoffs. Go ahead. Try. I'll be waiting here.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Pens take this
Fact that they didn't miss the playoffs also is a big +

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Lose your starting goalie for over half the season and make the playoffs. Go ahead. Try. I'll be waiting here.

We won our back to back Cup without out our #1 D

 

[Voight]

We won our back to back Cup without out our #1 D

Still had your starting goalie. Had 2 of them.

 

[Boxscore]

We won our back to back Cup without out our #1 D

Letang is not a good #1 D, that's the issue. He was gone and the Pens didn't miss a beat. He was one of the reasons the Pens got bounced this year. The Pens don't win the last two Cups if Crosby played like a human and not an immortal.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Letang is not a good #1 D, that's the issue. He was gone and the Pens didn't miss a beat. He was one of the reasons the Pens got bounced this year. The Pens don't win the last two Cups if Crosby played like a human and not an immortal.

Letang was very good in 2016, so there's no reason to think he wouldn't have been in 2017, too. He would have been a huge benefit to the team.

 

[Stephen]

-The Penguins have not missed the playoffs since 2006-2007

Cups

Pens-3, possibly 4
Hawks-3

SCF Finals Appearances

Pens-4, possibly 5
Hawks-3

Conference Finals Appearances

Pens-5, possibly 6
Hawks-5

Playoff Appearances

Pens-12
Hawks-9

Playoff Series Wins

Pens-20
Hawks-16

Overall Playoff wins

Pens-98
Hawks-76

Game 7 losses

Pens-3
Hawks-3


-Not all that close.

I love how the word *possibly* shows up a lot here.

 

[Boxscore]

Letang was very good in 2016, so there's no reason to think he wouldn't have been in 2017, too. He would have been a huge benefit to the team.

Fine and well, but it speaks volumes when you can be without your "number 1 D man" and still win a Cup. Translation: Letang is a number 1 defenseman by default, and not in reality. I was never a huge Letang fan - he's always injured, makes high-risk plays, and focuses too much on diving and trying to draw penalties than he does playing solid defense. If he didn't have the luxury of riding the coattails of Crosby and Malkin, he'd be considered a Kevin Shattenkirk at best. And Shatty doesn't dive 8 times a game and lose focus like Letang does.

 

[Gurglesons]

Still had your starting goalie. Had 2 of them.

I mean, technically in 2016 we lost our starting goaltender and our back-up and Murray stepped up.

 

[Section88]

Why do you feel the need to start your post by playing the "bias" card? The Pens should be viewed as better on almost every metric:

More SCF appearances
More playoff appearances
More playoff wins in games and series
Better regular season record

As for the better "team", line up their respective Cup winning teams, and tell me which one had the most top heavy performance vs. a whole team effort?

I would say the Pens would be at the top of both lists. The 2009 team was very top heavy but the Hawks in 2010 wasn't that far behind. The Pens 2016 effort was a whole team effort and arguably the most dominant Cup team between the two.

The hawks in 2010 had probably the best depth of any cup winner in the last decade

 

[Dr Pepper]

I'd say Chicago.

Pittsburgh, up until the past two or three seasons, was on the verge of being considered underachieving, given the relative arsenal of top players they've had at their disposal. From his rookie year up until 2016, only 1 Stanley Cup for Crosby was far less than I'm sure many expected from him and the Pens. Only recently have they started to realize that potential.

Chicago, meanwhile, hit it big in 2011 and stayed dominant for the better part of a decade, the cream of the crop in the West up until this year. Or last year, if you want to count their loss at the hands of the Preds.

 

[daver]

The hawks in 2010 had probably the best depth of any cup winner in the last decade

Not looking at their top scorers. Kane and Toews are the 2nd best scoring duo of the lockout.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Lose your starting goalie for over half the season and make the playoffs. Go ahead. Try. I'll be waiting here.

07-08 Penguins, who were a point away from #1 in the conference.

 

[Kranix]

The greatest franchise of this generation is Jonathan Toews.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

I think it is hard to pick one as clearly the best. Both have won 3 cups, have been to about as many conference finals as one another since 2008

CHI has 2009(WCFL), 2010(SCFW), 2013(SCFW), 2014(WCFL), 2015(SCFW)

PIT has 2008(SCFL), 2009(SCFW), 2013(ECFL), 2016(SCFW), 2017(SCFW)

Let me know if I missed something, but in terms of cup wins they are tied in the last 10 years, the only difference is that PIT went to one more final. CHI did not lose in any 3 SCF series they were in, but did lose 2 WCFs. PIT did go to another SCF but got swept out in 2013 ECFs. I'd say fairly even.