Post-Game Talk: Chiasson sucks

[belair]

To the bolded, have I got bad news for you about next year...

I've been adamant that if the team was going to go on a run this was the year to do it. But the GM decided on minimal improvements, the coach decided to be stubborn (as he was last year), and the team is laying a collective egg at the worst possible time yet again. Only difference is that goaltending is keeping this series from being a laugher.

Next year they're back to the Pacific and while they should be the second best team in that dumpster fire of a division, the chances of them beating Vegas are exceedingly slim.

We're praying that the GM makes substantial improvements with cap space in the offseason but given the way that space has been distributed doesn't really fill me with confidence. Never mind that the team has holes at every position.

Frankly with McDavid and Draisatl we shouldn't settle for being a free ticket to round 2. And I'm not convinced this org actually wants to win anything in the playoffs.

Oh, and it's quite clear for the second year in a row the team is looking past their opponent. How the f*** do they do that again?

Why? The rest of your post clearly indicates that the team has a better chance of being competitive in the years following with an easier division and more cap flexibility.

The team this season had numerous depth issues that were clearly not going to be addressed by throwing rentals in ice cold. Its bottom six has provided nearly zero supporting offense for the majority of the season, despite the existence of the taxi squad.

This was clearly a year where it would've been foolish to commit any kind of significant futures to a playoff run. This team was always going to go where its scoring lines and special teams led them

 

[McDNicks17]

I still don’t think this team is going anywhere with Tippett.

The playoffs really magnify how much his incompetence is covered up by McDrai.

 

[Little Fury]

Like who? Who is realistically available?

We shouldn't even be in this situation to begin with, we basically ruined several years because of shit forward depth betting the farm on Lucic and Larsson to be long term big producers for the club.

I'd love to add Patrik Laine or something, but with what assets?

Every first round pick for the next three years and basically every prospect should be on the table this summer.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Why? The rest of your post clearly indicates that the team has a better chance of being competitive in the years following with an easier division and more cap flexibility.

The team this season had numerous depth issues that were clearly not going to be addressed by throwing rentals in ice cold. Its bottom six has provided nearly zero supporting offense for the majority of the season, despite the existence of the taxi squad.

This was clearly a year where it would've been foolish to commit any kind of significant futures to a playoff run. This team was always going to go where its scoring lines and special teams led them

Vegas would absolutely crush this team and the road to the Cup goes through them. And while I wouldn't have liked the Oilers odds against Toronto, there was always a chance there, assuming they don't Toronto things up again.

This team has been crying for scoring depth for 2 years now and it hasn't been addressed. It was a problem last year, it's a problem this year, and unless lines 2-4 are significantly overhauled, it'll be a problem next year too.

 

[MaxR11]

Like who? Who is realistically available?

We shouldn't even be in this situation to begin with, we basically ruined several years because of shit forward depth betting the farm on Lucic and Larsson to be long term big producers for the club.

I'd love to add Patrik Laine or something, but with what assets?

There's probably a ton of names out there you can acquire via trade or free agency that will be better than Hall. You just don't see it because you overvalue Hall and think he's in some more elite or higher tier.

Hall needed to be off this team in 2016 no matter what you believe. He was bad for this team and if you think we're not good now, it would have been much uglier if he'd have stayed for the entire tenure of his contract here. While I think this rendition of Hall (after learning hard lessons via being bounced around from team to team humbling him) is definitely better for the Oil than the version of him if he would have stayed, I still don't think he's the answer here.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Every first round pick for the next three years and basically every prospect should be on the table this summer.

I'll be very disappointed if this year's first round pick isn't used in a trade.

 

[GOilers88]

I certainly don't see any reason to believe they'd get past Vegas and this series hasn't changed my mind in the slightest. The Hall era Oilers would blush at how little depth this team has.

If the Oilers are going to contend, they need at bare minimum 2 top wingers, 2 top 4 D, a starting goalie, and basically an entirely new bottom 6.

I definitely agree with you as they currently are I don't think have a hope in hell against a team like Vegas. But I also don't think McDrai will get shutout for an entire series, and even if they do that will absolutely be the hardest lesson they learn with the Oilers and they come out changed next season. Regardless of depth scoring they are definitely not above criticism so far and this will (you would hope) help them grow as complete players. As good as they are I think they both still have that other gear.

The outcome of this post season doesn't change my mentality for next season, because I'm also now expecting a solid off season by Holland. He's seems to have followed the exact plan he laid out for everyone when he arrived, has held to his word on basically everything whether it worked out for him or not, and has some decent depth players that have percolated in the AHL for us that are absolutely ready for a shot. The cheap, limited depth will look different as most of them were short show me deals for short term filler to some decent cap opening up. The amount required to help fill the actual holes that were left here and hamstrung by the guys before.

Figured it would take a few years to get the team where it needed to be and it seems like the foundation is there with the farm. Now I'm with most of you guys. Something big needs to happen this summer and nothing less should be expected. I'm really excited because of the ED and can't wait to see how everything lands across the league.

 

[Soundwave]

There's probably a ton of names out there you can acquire via trade or free agency that will be better than Hall. You just don't see it because you overvalue Hall and think he's in some more elite or higher tier.

Hall needed to be off this team in 2016 no matter what you believe. He was bad for this team and if you think we're not good now, it would have been much uglier if he'd have stayed for the entire tenure of his contract here. While I think this rendition of Hall (after learning hard lessons via being bounced around from team to team humbling him) is definitely better for the Oil than the version of him if he would have stayed, I still don't think he's the answer here.

Name some of these names. Thomas Tatar, 5'10 30 year old LW is the answer? Maybe Athansiou again? The UFA crop is not great.

The fact of the matter is Lucic needed to be good for at least 4-5 years of his 7 year contract and Larsson needed to continue to improve from his play in New Jersey to become an elite shut down top pairing d-man.

Instead the Oilers got basically 1 good year from both of them, a giant bag of shit from Lucic (turned into Neal) for most of the last 4 seasons and Larsson has capped out as an OK but nothing special no.4 d-man with zero offence.

The franchise bet the farm on these two players and it was a giant bust.

We are suffering in games to this day because of that, we basically cannot win a playoff round and it will take probably a full blown overhaul of the forward support group which will require another several years to do correctly.

 

[belair]

Vegas would absolutely crush this team and the road to the Cup goes through them. And while I wouldn't have liked the Oilers odds against Toronto, there was always a chance there, assuming they don't Toronto things up again.

This team has been crying for scoring depth for 2 years now and it hasn't been addressed. It was a problem last year, it's a problem this year, and unless lines 2-4 are significantly overhauled, it'll be a problem next year too.

Vegas is going to lose depth in the coming seasons because they've spent too close to the flat cap. Much like Toronto and much like Tampa, they're going to have to prioritize certain positions and hope that depth players can shore up the rest.

We aren't in the same boat. Our team has the flexibility to sustain it's productive core and address weaknesses in the off-season with cap that is coming off of our payroll. We also possess the more promising prospects.

 

[Soundwave]

Vegas is going to lose depth in the coming seasons because they've spent too close to the flat cap. Much like Toronto and much like Tampa, they're going to have to prioritize certain positions and hope that depth players can shore up the rest.

We aren't in the same boat. Our team has the flexibility to sustain it's productive core and address weaknesses in the off-season with cap that is coming off of our payroll. We also possess the more promising prospects.

The Oilers don't have a forward "core". They have two great players who need to play together too often and an OK reclamation in Puljujarvi.

 

[Little Fury]

The Oilers don't have a forward "core". They have two great players who need to play together too often and an OK reclamation in Puljujarvi.

How many players makes up a core?

 

[Soundwave]

How many players makes up a core?

For a good hockey team that can actually be a contender? I would say usually 5-6 functionally good players that don't evaporate in tight checking games. And then probably even a couple of decent 1-3 energy forwards in the bottom 6 on top of that.

We don't have even have 5-6 guys that show up in wide open run n' gun games right now.

We can win enough regular season games because teams won't check that tight it's too much energy to expend in a regular season for our top 2 guys and then if we get good enough goaltending, that's basically playoffs. But winning an actual playoff round as constructed if the opposing coach actually game plans specifically for our one line ... it's very, very hard for us to win right now.

 

[GOilers88]

For a good hockey team that can actually be a contender? I would say usually 5-6 functionally good players that don't evaporate in tight checking games. And then probably even a couple of decent 1-3 energy forwards in the bottom 6 on top of that.

We don't have even have 5-6 guys that show up in wide open run n' gun games right now.

Technically right now we don't have anyone but JP.

 

[MaxR11]

People are focusing too much on acquiring guys that are pure skill in trade/free agency. They don't realize a lot of success (especially in the playoffs) comes from the guys who are able to do the hard grunt work (who also do have some skill and ability but not top tier like Laine, Eichel etc) night in night out and open things up for their star linemates takes some of the stress off them as far as physical grind.

Optimally you have stars like Marchand and Bergeron who conveniently have those characteristics of hard work and grind etc in them. Otherwise we should be looking at guys who have that consistent jam and decent enough skill to be in the top 6... we don;t necessarily have to acquire the most skilled FA or player in a trade out there. I think if you have too many skilled guys who are not willing to do the grunt work it will actually be worse. We've seen how ugly Connor and Drai can be together on the same line over a longer stretch.

 

[MaxR11]

Name some of these names. Thomas Tatar, 5'10 30 year old LW is the answer? Maybe Athansiou again? The UFA crop is not great.

The fact of the matter is Lucic needed to be good for at least 4-5 years of his 7 year contract and Larsson needed to continue to improve from his play in New Jersey to become an elite shut down top pairing d-man.

Instead the Oilers got basically 1 good year from both of them, a giant bag of shit from Lucic (turned into Neal) for most of the last 4 seasons and Larsson has capped out as an OK but nothing special no.4 d-man with zero offence.

The franchise bet the farm on these two players and it was a giant bust.

We are suffering in games to this day because of that, we basically cannot win a playoff round and it will take probably a full blown overhaul of the forward support group which will require another several years to do correctly.

I never said it has to be FA. Can be a trade so I'm not going to go over dozens of names that would be better than Hall. And yes, Tatar would be better than Hall... and I'm not even sure Tatar would be for sure that good here.

 

[Soundwave]

People are focusing too much on acquiring guys that are pure skill in trade/free agency. They don't realize a lot of success (especially in the playoffs) comes from the guys who are able to do the hard grunt work (who also do have some skill and ability but not top tier like Laine, Eichel etc) night in night out and open things up for their star linemates takes some of the stress off them as far as physical grind.

Optimally you have stars like Marchand and Bergeron who conveniently have those characteristics of hard work and grind etc in them. Otherwise we should be looking at guys who have that consistent jam and decent enough skill to be in the top 6... we don;t necessarily have to acquire the most skilled FA or player in a trade out there. I think if you have too many skilled guys who are not willing to do the grunt work it will actually be worse. We've seen how ugly Connor and Drai can be together on the same line over a longer stretch.

Playing "hard" is a "skill". But the Oilers don't have any skill past 1 line that scares anyone. You think Winnipeg is afraid of Nugent Hopkins. They're laughing at his soft, sorry ass, he doesn't do shit and they know it.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

@GOilers88

Toronto did shut them down 3 straight games...they shut them out back to back then Draisaitl got one assist in a 6-1 blowout in the third game so they should have already learned that lesson scoring one goal in three games.

The Jets are doing the same thing Toronto did, it's like watching those three games all over again. The big guys have zero room out there. Tippett didn't have an answer then and he doesn't have one now. We need the bottom lines to generate something offensively because if they don't, they're going to be sent packing in four.

 

[MaxR11]

Name some of these names. Thomas Tatar, 5'10 30 year old LW is the answer? Maybe Athansiou again? The UFA crop is not great.

The fact of the matter is Lucic needed to be good for at least 4-5 years of his 7 year contract and Larsson needed to continue to improve from his play in New Jersey to become an elite shut down top pairing d-man.

Instead the Oilers got basically 1 good year from both of them, a giant bag of shit from Lucic (turned into Neal) for most of the last 4 seasons and Larsson has capped out as an OK but nothing special no.4 d-man with zero offence.

The franchise bet the farm on these two players and it was a giant bust.

We are suffering in games to this day because of that, we basically cannot win a playoff round and it will take probably a full blown overhaul of the forward support group which will require another several years to do correctly.

I never said it has to be FA. Can be a trade so I'm not going to go over dozens of names that would be better than Hall. And yes, Tatar would be better than Hall... and I'm not even sure Tatar would be for sure that good here.

 

[MaxR11]

Playing "hard" is a "skill". But the Oilers don't have any skill past 1 line that scares anyone. You think Winnipeg is afraid of Nugent Hopkins. They're laughing at his soft, sorry ass, he doesn't do shit and they know it.

Sure, then guys like Laine really lack that all important "skill".

 

[belair]

The Oilers don't have a forward "core". They have two great players who need to play together too often and an OK reclamation in Puljujarvi.

I didn't say they had a forward core.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I definitely agree with you as they currently are I don't think have a hope in hell against a team like Vegas. But I also don't think McDrai will get shutout for an entire series, and even if they do that will absolutely be the hardest lesson they learn with the Oilers and they come out changed next season. Regardless of depth scoring they are definitely not above criticism so far and this will (you would hope) help them grow as complete players. As good as they are I think they both still have that other gear.

The outcome of this post season doesn't change my mentality for next season, because I'm also now expecting a solid off season by Holland. He's seems to have followed the exact plan he laid out for everyone when he arrived, has held to his word on basically everything whether it worked out for him or not, and has some decent depth players that have percolated in the AHL for us that are absolutely ready for a shot. The cheap, limited depth will look different as most of them were short show me deals for short term filler to some decent cap opening up. The amount required to help fill the actual holes that were left here and hamstrung by the guys before.

Figured it would take a few years to get the team where it needed to be and it seems like the foundation is there with the farm. Now I'm with most of you guys. Something big needs to happen this summer and nothing less should be expected. I'm really excited because of the ED and can't wait to see how everything lands across the league.

McDrai will show up, of that I'm certain. But will anyone else? They needed to win that game last night and again couldn't find a way to win. They want to play the easy way, not the hard way. The Jets have them by the throat, and this is without their big guns producing. This is probably the worst case scenario for the team. They had every opportunity to at least earn a split and they couldn't find a way.

There is hope for next season but this team is so bereft of depth that Holland will have to pull the offseason of all offseasons to accomplish that.

It's not even the fact that they're losing that bothers me. It's how they're losing and how it seems like they learned nothing from last year.

Vegas is going to lose depth in the coming seasons because they've spent too close to the flat cap. Much like Toronto and much like Tampa, they're going to have to prioritize certain positions and hope that depth players can shore up the rest.

We aren't in the same boat. Our team has the flexibility to sustain it's productive core and address weaknesses in the off-season with cap that is coming off of our payroll. We also possess the more promising prospects.

We have flexibility for sure but unless that cap space is used wisely (which so far under Holland it's been a mixed bag), then it's all noise. Our pro scouts continue to strike out with signings.

 

[Del Preston]

I still don’t think this team is going anywhere with Tippett.

The playoffs really magnify how much his incompetence is covered up by McDrai.

It is time.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I still don’t think this team is going anywhere with Tippett.

The playoffs really magnify how much his incompetence is covered up by McDrai.

Welcome to the dark side.

 

[GOilers88]

@GOilers88

Toronto did shut them down 3 straight games...they shut them out back to back then Draisaitl got one assist in a 6-1 blowout in the third game so they should have already learned that lesson scoring one goal in three games.

The Jets are doing the same thing Toronto did, it's like watching those three games all over again. Tippett didn't have an answer then and he doesn't have one now. We need the bottom lines to generate something offensively because if they don't, they're going to be sent packing in four.

Yeah, five games. 2 of which are of the playoff variety. So I get what you're saying but becoming a complete player takes time.

Ovi said it best, man. You have to learn how to play the right way in the playoffs. A couple of sour showings will help that.

Or it won't and they never get it done. But they have a lot of time to figure it out. I thought McDavid looked unsure as f*** out there last night with the old dust offs and double-cocks in the slot.

 

[belair]

We have flexibility for sure but unless that cap space is used wisely (which so far under Holland it's been a mixed bag), then it's all noise. Our pro scouts continue to strike out with signings.

I don't disagree that our pro scouts have brought back some pretty poor results consistently. But when you're picking out of the late-off-season FA heap, I think it was necessary to keep expectations somewhat realistic. Guys like Kahun, Ennis and Shore aren't players who should be filling vital roles on a competitive team.

Having a little more cap to throw around leads me to believe that one or two of the options we'll have next season should provide a bit more of an impact offensively.