Sportsnet: Chelios take a shot at Shanahan

[TheThrill81*]

We disagree, there is nothing more to add to this discussion. If you cannot see how Shanahan was handed a Vice President role with the NHL straight from retiring as a player to being handed the President job of the Toronto Maple Leafs with zero Team Executive experience, we can't have a conversation.

I'm curious to know what Shanahan has done for you to doubt his abilities to be President of the Leafs? I didn't realize condemning him after just 4 games was what passed for rational these days.

 

[colchar]

Chelios is calling Shanahan a **** teammate off the ice, apparently.

I disagree. I think he was saying he was a politician in the sense that he tried to appeal to everybody, in this case meaning maybe too close to management.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm curious to know what Shanahan has done for you to doubt his abilities to be President of the Leafs? I didn't realize condemning him after just 4 games was what passed for rational these days.

He's never worked in any front office capacity for any hockey team, whether it was junior, minor leagues, or the NHL.

How many teams hire a President overseeing an original 6 NHL franchise with no track record as a Hockey Exec, no apprenticeship under a successful GM, based solely on his record as a Head of NHL discipline.

I am frankly surprised, no one in the media or fanbase has brought these questions to the forefront. Shanahan has gotten a free ride here, it is generally accepted here that he is a great hire.

Truth is, no one knows. He has been handed one job after the other after his playing days.

I don't think I am being unreasonable. I'll give him a chance, but I won't buy in and say this was the right decision with his resume for running a NHL franchise with such a flimsy resume.

 

[Ace88*]

We disagree, there is nothing more to add to this discussion. If you cannot see how Shanahan was handed a Vice President role with the NHL straight from retiring as a player to being handed the President job of the Toronto Maple Leafs with zero Team Executive experience, we can't have a conversation.

Well no, it's not disagreeing, you're just straight up completely wrong as several posters have pointed out.

 

[ACC1224]

He's never worked in any front office capacity for any hockey team, whether it was junior, minor leagues, or the NHL.

How many teams hire a President overseeing an original 6 NHL franchise with no track record as a Hockey Exec, no apprenticeship under a successful GM, based solely on his record as a Head of NHL discipline.

I am frankly surprised, no one in the media or fanbase has brought these questions to the forefront. Shanahan has gotten a free ride here, it is generally accepted here that he is a great hire.

Truth is, no one knows. He has been handed one job after the other after his playing days.

I don't think I am being unreasonable. I'll give him a chance, but I won't buy in and say this was the right decision with his resume for running a NHL franchise with such a flimsy resume.

Have the Habs ever had a Hockey guy as President?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Montreal_Canadiens_presidents

Hawks have a solid President, not a Hockey guy though.
http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=47384

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Well no, it's not disagreeing, you're just straight up completely wrong as several posters have pointed out.

Wrong about what? That Shanahan has managed a hockey team at any level prior to being handed the Leafs job? How so, did I miss something you know.

 

[Tucker93]

He's never worked in any front office capacity for any hockey team, whether it was junior, minor leagues, or the NHL.

How many teams hire a President overseeing an original 6 NHL franchise with no track record as a Hockey Exec, no apprenticeship under a successful GM, based solely on his record as a Head of NHL discipline.

I am frankly surprised, no one in the media or fanbase has brought these questions to the forefront. Shanahan has gotten a free ride here, it is generally accepted here that he is a great hire.

Truth is, no one knows. He has been handed one job after the other after his playing days.

I don't think I am being unreasonable. I'll give him a chance, but I won't buy in and say this was the right decision with his resume for running a NHL franchise with such a flimsy resume.

Simple question for you, do you think that when Yzerman was first given a job as VP of the Red Wings or GM of Team Canada that he earned either of those positions, both of those were his first forays into managing a hockey team.

Why is it that you feel that Shanahan was given that VP role with the NHL without earning it after he retired, even though that is precisely what happened to Yzerman once he retired, except it was with the Red Wings as opposed to the NHL. And yet you go on and on about Yzerman earning what he has been handed.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Have the Habs ever had a Hockey guy as President?

Why not ask this question about the last decade of cup winners, how many Execs overseeing hockey teams have come in with no experience.

The goal is to model championship teams isn't it?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Simple question for you, do you think that when Yzerman was first given a job as VP of the Red Wings or GM of Team Canada that he earned either of those positions, both of those were his first forays into managing a hockey team.

Why is it that you feel that Shanahan was given that VP role with the NHL without earning it after he retired, even though that is precisely what happened to Yzerman once he retired, except it was with the Red Wings as opposed to the NHL. And yet you go on and on about Yzerman earning what he has been handed.

Yzerman was a VP that Learned under the umbrella of Holland. Shanahan is the President. He reports to no one. Not the same thing.

 

[ACC1224]

Why not ask this question about the last decade of cup winners, how many Execs overseeing hockey teams have come in with no experience.

The goal is to model championship teams isn't it?

You're the one asking the questions. Don't ask them if you don't like the answers.

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=47384

I'm guessing there is some criteria with this guy that will exclude him.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

He's never worked in any front office capacity for any hockey team, whether it was junior, minor leagues, or the NHL.

How many teams hire a President overseeing an original 6 NHL franchise with no track record as a Hockey Exec, no apprenticeship under a successful GM, based solely on his record as a Head of NHL discipline.

I am frankly surprised, no one in the media or fanbase has brought these questions to the forefront. Shanahan has gotten a free ride here, it is generally accepted here that he is a great hire.

Truth is, no one knows. He has been handed one job after the other after his playing days.

I don't think I am being unreasonable. I'll give him a chance, but I won't buy in and say this was the right decision with his resume for running a NHL franchise with such a flimsy resume.

I dont disagree with anything you are saying but the experienced guy isn't always the best guy for the job. Ladies and Gentlemen..I present to you...Brian Burke. LOL.

Give Shanny a chance. And by a chance..he will need a few years under his belt before being hailed or condemned. Give him time.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You're the one asking the questions. Don't ask them if you don't like the answers.

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=47384

I'm guessing there is some criteria with this guy that will exclude him.

You asked me a question to change the subject from Shanahan having no experience, don't get mad when I give you an answer that is quite viable.

You model successful teams, this is the best way to success, you don't try to reinvent the wheel by hiring a President in Training.

 

[Ace88*]

Wrong about what? That Shanahan has managed a hockey team at any level prior to being handed the Leafs job? How so, did I miss something you know.

Youre wrong that he has no managerial experience. He has plenty, as many folks have told you now. You just sound so bitter and salty about it for no reason, like someone else got the promotion you were convinced was yours. Why are you even complaining about it? To be different?

 

[Ace88*]

You asked me a question to change the subject from Shanahan having no experience, don't get mad when I give you an answer that is quite viable.

You model successful teams, this is the best way to success, you don't try to reinvent the wheel.

Dont try and reinvent the wheel eh. You must really hate analytics coming into hockey then

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Youre wrong that he has no managerial experience. He has plenty, as many folks have told you now. You just sound so bitter and salty about it for no reason, like someone else got the promotion you were convinced was yours. Why are you even complaining about it? To be different?

This is a strawman argument, does he have Managerial experience running a hockey team prior to being named President of the Toronto Maple Leafs?

 

[ACC1224]

You asked me a question to change the subject from Shanahan having no experience, don't get mad when I give you an answer that is quite viable.

You model successful teams, this is the best way to success, you don't try to reinvent the wheel by hiring a President in Training.

Carry on.

You asked if an Original 6 Team had ever hired a President without Front Office Hockey experience.
I showed you two examples.

Did you forget the question you asked? It was bolded in my earlier reply.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

This is a strawman argument, does he have Managerial experience running a hockey team prior to being named President of the Toronto Maple Leafs?

The answer is obviously NO.

But does he have transferable skills? Does he have the ability to do the job? Is he intelligent and respected in the hockey community? Does he have hockey experience and knowledge?

Answer to all of these is YES. He deserves a fair shot. The Leafs have nothing to lose at this point. They are on a treadmill of mediocrity. Maybe this guy will change things. He was a winner as a player. Perhaps that can translate.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The answer is obviously NO.

But does he have transferable skills? Does he have the ability to do the job? Is he intelligent and respected in the hockey community? Does he have hockey experience and knowledge?

Answer to all of these is YES. He deserves a fair shot. The Leafs have nothing to lose at this point. They are on a treadmill of mediocrity. Maybe this guy will change things. He was a winner as a player. Perhaps that can translate.

Shanahan was a very good hockey player, he was fairly good as the League's Top Cop. Does this qualify him for running a NHL hockey Team in this market?

You tell me? I know I am not sure.

 

[Ace88*]

This is a strawman argument, does he have Managerial experience running a hockey team prior to being named President of the Toronto Maple Leafs?

No, actually, that isn't a strawman argument. Managerial skills are largely transferrable and can apply to wide variety of management positions. This is how the CEO of an agriculture company can go on to become a COO of a hedge fund company. You would be shocked to see how many different fields a good amount of the upper management in plenty of companies have experience in.

The point is that you seem to believe that Shanahan can't do a good job as the general manager of the Maple Leafs when, in actual fact, the skills he learned in the last decade make him a highly qualified, highly suitable and highly attractive President. He's a figurehead here to handle the politics and overarching management of the COMPANY of the Maple leafs, not to put together a team by drafting, trading, signing, etc. There is a very good reason that the hockey world was unanimous in believing it was a great hire then and now. But there's old Interactif going on about how Shanahan has never been a general manager before!

Again, straight up wrong you are.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No, actually, that isn't a strawman argument. Managerial skills are largely transferrable and can apply to wide variety of management positions. This is how the CEO of an agriculture company can go on to become a COO of a hedge fund company. You would be shocked to see how many different fields a good amount of the upper management in plenty of companies have experience in.

The point is that you seem to believe that Shanahan can't do a good job as the general manager of the Maple Leafs when, in actual fact, the skills he learned in the last decade make him a highly qualified, highly suitable and highly attractive President. He's a figurehead here to handle the politics and overarching management of the COMPANY of the Maple leafs, not to put together a team by drafting, trading, signing, etc. There is a very good reason that the hockey world was unanimous in believing it was a great hire then and now. But there's old Interactif going on about how Shanahan has never been a general manager before!

Again, straight up wrong you are.

Never said that Shanahan could not be successful, then again he may not be successful, he has never run a Hockey team in his life. No one knows how this will turn out.

I guess anything is possible, I may win the lottery tomorrow too.

What I said was crystal clear and you know it. About the Management experience transferring, perhaps, but wouldn't NHL hockey management experience be better? We can look at most successful teams and how they are run, and most if not all have a head man that apprenticed under an experienced NHL Exec.

 

[Daisy Jane]

We disagree, there is nothing more to add to this discussion. If you cannot see how Shanahan was handed a Vice President role with the NHL straight from retiring as a player to being handed the President job of the Toronto Maple Leafs with zero Team Executive experience, we can't have a conversation.

I am not sure why you are defending he earned his jobs. Let's just call it as it is, it's not like he was Yzerman who put in 4 years under Holland, paid his dues assembling 2 Team Canada teams before earning the TB job.

so once again:
If Yzerman retired, and then worked towards his track in life why is Shanahan "Handed" (your word) everything he worked in?

Yzerman 'studied' to be a gm
Shanahan was in business and worked his way there.

I don't get why Yzerman is 'paying his dues" why is it that Shanahan just "handed" things. you haven't made that clear in one iota. All you keep saying is that Yzerman worked his way up to be a GM, but refuse to acknowledge that Shanahan worked his way up to be a President of a hockey club.

One could even say that Shanahan did more than one Trever Linden who as far as I know hasn't worked in the NHL league offices or with the anyone at all. If you're going to be so fast and loose with the word "handed a position" i think you're looking at the wrong team


[and - quite frankly, I don't have a problem with him being there either]

 

[Ace88*]

Never said that Shanahan could not be successful, then again he may not be successful, he has never run a Hockey team in his life. No one knows how this will turn out.

I guess anything is possible, I may win the lottery tomorrow too.

What I said was crystal clear and you know it.

Yeah it was and i outlined precisely what it was that you said, most of which is totally baseless and needlessly contrarian. Is there a reason for that?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

so once again:
If Yzerman retired, and then worked towards his track in life why is Shanahan "Handed" (your word) everything he worked in?

Yzerman 'studied' to be a gm
Shanahan was in business and worked his way there.

I don't get why Yzerman is 'paying his dues" why is it that Shanahan just "handed" things. you haven't made that clear in one iota. All you keep saying is that Yzerman worked his way up to be a GM, but refuse to acknowledge that Shanahan worked his way up to be a President of a hockey club.

One could even say that Shanahan did more than one Trever Linden who as far as I know hasn't worked in the NHL league offices or with the anyone at all. If you're going to be so fast and loose with the word "handed a position" i think you're looking at the wrong team


[and - quite frankly, I don't have a problem with him being there either]

Trevor Linden wouldn't have been my first choice to run the Leafs either.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yeah it was and i outlined precisely what it was that you said, most of which is totally baseless and needlessly contrarian. Is there a reason for that?

You said I was wrong, fact is as I just said, you don't know if Shanahan was the correct hire, you ever see those employee in training name tags? This is Shanahan right now.

 

[Morguee]

Never said that Shanahan could not be successful, then again he may not be successful, he has never run a Hockey team in his life. No one knows how this will turn out.

I guess anything is possible, I may win the lottery tomorrow too.

What I said was crystal clear and you know it. About the Management experience transferring, perhaps, but wouldn't NHL hockey management experience be better? We can look at most successful teams and how they are run, and most if not all have a head man that apprenticed under an experienced NHL Exec.

Not to be a ***** but can you just state what exactly it is you are arguing. I read through the thread and it seems you are simply arguing the contrary and changing the goal posts every time some one gives you a valid answer.