Chelios: No veteran free agent wanted to play for Babcock

[DanZ]

What big names has Detroit even gone after? They landed Hossa, struck out on Stamkos (can't blame Babcock there), who else is there? I'm surely missing some.

They didn't strike out on Stamkos, he just didn't want to leave Tampa. They never got an opportunity with him. Sutet and Parise were the big ones under Babcock.

 

[Mitts Marner*]

They didn't strike out on Stamkos, he just didn't want to leave Tampa. They never got an opportunity with him. Sutet and Parise were the big ones under Babcock.

You mean the guys who took hometown discounts to play at home?

Weird.

 

[DanZ]

You mean the guys who took hometown discounts to play at home?

Weird.

There were plenty of others. The Wings basically went after every dman after Lidstrom left. Green signed once Babcock left.

Weird.

 

[SatanwasaSlovak]

He was just probably hard on Chelios because he didn't want him to slack and live by his reputation.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Of the top 100 things the Leafs have to worry about, I'd put this one at 101.

 

[4thline]

The Babcock backlash from Detroit reeks of fans that will not accept that they've been a very mediocre team since ~2011 propped up by Babcock and 3 aging stars drafted at the turn of the century. A lot of overrated players that were accepted as good/great because "Detroit's the best at drafting"

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

That's good news for Leafs to be honest. Veteran free agents and players are so ****ing overrated for their experience.

Explain to me how Igninla helped any team since he's left Calgary? The Leafs used to get plenty of veteran free agents for their playoff runs and besides Gary Roberts, every other one was a bust.

I'd rather target younger players than veterans any day of the week. Veterans have one thing going for them...their name and reputation. If you're over 35, please don't play for the Leafs, we don't want you anyways.

I don't know I think Justin Williams or Patrick Sharp could be solid additions

 

[SpookyTsuki]

The Babcock backlash from Detroit reeks of fans that will not accept that they've been a very mediocre team since ~2011 propped up by Babcock and 3 aging stars drafted at the turn of the century. A lot of overrated players that were accepted as good/great because "Detroit's the best at drafting"

People didn't like him for a while. Like 3 years before he left. And mediocre since 2011?? You just lost everything there. Since lidstrom left is the correct answer

 

[one77]

Hahaha the Leafs have nothing to worry about here. They will be fine with one of the best coaches we've seen in a very long time

 

[4thline]

People didn't like him for a while. Like 3 years before he left. And mediocre since 2011?? You just lost everything there. Since lidstrom left is the correct answer

Sorry *since 2012. Slipped a year going off the top of my head. Hmm so they stopped liking him right around the time that he was expected to continue delivering a contender with a roster that more and more mediocre by the year.

He definitely has some very frustrating traits that could definitely be seen as flaws, but the only people that would hold is post shortened season results in Detroit as a black mark against his record are Wings fans lying to themselves about the quality of those rosters - and by extension some of their current players

 

[Geki]

People didn't like him for a while. Like 3 years before he left. And mediocre since 2011?? You just lost everything there. Since lidstrom left is the correct answer

No doubt. Seriously, you leaf fans thinking that we've only been sour on Babcock and our recruiting in the last year need to go search our board. You don't know the half of it. Honestly, we all knew when Lidstrom retired we were done. The team over-performed (while being merely mediocre) for years after he left. There were several threads wondering wth people were talking about when they kept saying how great the wings' recruiting/youth movement was, like it was still 2008.

Sorry *since 2012. Slipped a year going off the top of my head. Hmm so they stopped liking him right around the time that he was expected to continue delivering a contender with a roster that more and more mediocre by the year.

He definitely has some very frustrating traits that could definitely be seen as flaws, but the only people that would hold is post shortened season results in Detroit as a black mark against his record are Wings fans lying to themselves about the quality of those rosters - and by extension some of their current players

People blamed Babcock for getting outcoached in the playoffs. Not saying it's fair, or correct. He was also thrown under the bus with the failings of the organization as a whole, which should be firmly placed on Holland. I find it hard to blame Babcock for recruiting since he wanted to go heavy on guys like Burns, etc. but the org failed him.

I (and many on our boards) don't blame him for not getting past the first couple rounds of the playoffs in the past 5 years. Heck, most of us were surprised we even got there.

IMO Datsyuk literally carried the wings for a good 4 years on his own. When he retired Babcock probably thought it was a good time to let Blashill take over and hopefully start rebuilding.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

There will be repercussions for the way Lou and Babcock treat vets and we are already starting to see it. As Lou continues to grow Robidas island, and Babcock keeps sending him travelelrs, vets become extremely worrisome about going to Toronto. We already saw some vets reject trades there this TDL

I dont think itll be that much of an issue because vets FA tend to be overpaid and underperform. But I do think theyll miss out on a pretty good one downt he road because theyll veto a trade or not sign there. Successful teams figure out how to utilize vets (Hawks have done it for a while), so thisll be one avenue likely cut off from Leafs in future

but who is on "Robidas Island" that could actually help the Leafs

Lupul? can't play
Robidas Can't play
Horton can't play
Greening? there are 20 guys better
Michleak? we got 20 guys better

fact is we don't treat guys bad if you end up buried it's because you have a career ending injury or you just aren't good enough.

As for Fuppila rejecting a trade it would have been nice to see what asset would have came with him but ask yourself do we really need him? well lets take a look

Matthews 35 goals
Kadri 30 goals
JVR 23 goals
Nylander 21 goals
Brown 18 goals
Marner 17goals
Bozak 17 goals
Komarov 13 goals

do we really need Fippula?, no, he would not have hurt the rebuild but he's not needed, he's a luxury.

I had a Similar attitiude towards Vesey last summer sure he'd be cool to have and he would not hurt but when you have Matthews Marner and Nylander he wasn't needed

 

[xxxx]

The Babcock backlash from Detroit reeks of fans that will not accept that they've been a very mediocre team since ~2011 propped up by Babcock and 3 aging stars drafted at the turn of the century. A lot of overrated players that were accepted as good/great because "Detroit's the best at drafting"

That maybe be a good point. The people who ask why Babcock didn't perform better with Detroit, maybe he did, but you don't know because you have no way to find out how would've Detroit performed with other coaches. And there is certainly a case to ba made that Detroit was out-performing itself with Babcock in certain years.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

The Babcock backlash from Detroit reeks of fans that will not accept that they've been a very mediocre team since ~2011 propped up by Babcock and 3 aging stars drafted at the turn of the century. A lot of overrated players that were accepted as good/great because "Detroit's the best at drafting"

The only Red Wings fan who refuses to accept they've been mediocre is Ken Holland. Just about every Red Wings fan on here wants them to rebuild.

 

[Stephen]

Not going to dispute Chelios' sentiments, denigrate his skating, bash the Detroit Red Wings or anything like that, but if it's true many veterans don't subscribe to certain locker room dynamics and coaching strategies, maybe it's best they don't come to Toronto? I mean we've had our fair share of Jeff O'Neill, Jason Allison, Jason Blake type guys at a certain phase of their careers. Maybe they have no place on a team they're trying to build. That's fine.

 

[Stephen]

They didn't strike out on Stamkos, he just didn't want to leave Tampa. They never got an opportunity with him. Sutet and Parise were the big ones under Babcock.

Stamkos probably wishes he did come home.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Not going to dispute Chelios' sentiments, denigrate his skating, bash the Detroit Red Wings or anything like that, but if it's true many veterans don't subscribe to certain locker room dynamics and coaching strategies, maybe it's best they don't come to Toronto? I mean we've had our fair share of Jeff O'Neill, Jason Allison, Jason Blake type guys at a certain phase of their careers. Maybe they have no place on a team they're trying to build. That's fine.

at some point we are going to need a couple of vets and that point is coming FAST

 

[Stephen]

at some point we are going to need a couple of vets and that point is coming FAST

Yeah and the wrong ones (like a Tomas Vanek) won't want to come, leaving the ones who do want to come.

 

[pigpen65]

The Leafs used to get plenty of veteran free agents for their playoff runs and besides Gary Roberts, every other one was a bust.

What playoff runs?

 

[Curufinwe]

but who is on "Robidas Island" that could actually help the Leafs

Lupul? can't play
Robidas Can't play
Horton can't play
Greening? there are 20 guys better
Michleak? we got 20 guys better

fact is we don't treat guys bad if you end up buried it's because you have a career ending injury or you just aren't good enough.

As for Fuppila rejecting a trade

Filppula blocked a move to Montreal, too. He didn't want to move to Canada.

 

[Kamiccolo]

at some point we are going to need a couple of vets and that point is coming FAST

If they are good then fine. What value does someone who can't be bothered to compete bring here? What do the kids learn seeing a vet like Versteeg half assing it and getting minutes because he's a vet? That once they sign their deals they don't need to play?

There is no bias. The message is simple. Toronto is interested in a cup. There are two conditions that need to be met to be a Leaf.

1. They need to want to be here
2. They need to make the team better

That's it. Babcock has said this over and over, and it's why Boyle hasn't been buried for GOAT or sat or anything, he plays hard and makes the team better. If Boyle floated around, he isn't making the team better, and would be sat.

 

[RadekBong]

People make or seem like we'd be better off if we still had Carlyle or Horachek. Maybe Babs isn't the best coach in the league but he's a hell of an improvement over the last bunch of coaches we've had behind the bench. There's one best coach (whoever you think that might be doesn't really matter), not every team can have him at once.

 

[4thline]

No doubt. Seriously, you leaf fans thinking that we've only been sour on Babcock and our recruiting in the last year need to go search our board. You don't know the half of it. Honestly, we all knew when Lidstrom retired we were done. The team over-performed (while being merely mediocre) for years after he left. There were several threads wondering wth people were talking about when they kept saying how great the wings' recruiting/youth movement was, like it was still 2008.


People blamed Babcock for getting outcoached in the playoffs. Not saying it's fair, or correct. He was also thrown under the bus with the failings of the organization as a whole, which should be firmly placed on Holland. I find it hard to blame Babcock for recruiting since he wanted to go heavy on guys like Burns, etc. but the org failed him.

I (and many on our boards) don't blame him for not getting past the first couple rounds of the playoffs in the past 5 years. Heck, most of us were surprised we even got there.

IMO Datsyuk literally carried the wings for a good 4 years on his own. When he retired Babcock probably thought it was a good time to let Blashill take over and hopefully start rebuilding.

Well said. Sorry for the blanket accusation. There are *some* Detroit fans that seem to be in denial and perfectly willing to scapegoat Babs.

 

[blueberrie]

What playoff runs?

You're either still a teenager or just starting following hockey so I'll help you out. The NHL has actually existed for much longer than a decade.

Pi is likely referring to 2003/04 deadlines where the Leafs gave up 8 picks and got back names like Nolan, Housley, Leetch, Gilmour.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Filppula blocked a move to Montreal, too. He didn't want to move to Canada.

I know, I made the thread