Value of: Charlie Coyle to Buffalo

[Bazeek]

Reinhart has hit the 20G mark in each of his 3 seasons. Coyle hit that mark once, when he was a year older than Reinhart is now. Reinhart is more of a playmaker than sniper, but he's still better than Coyle at putting pucks in the net.

Reinhart's been a better goal scorer but it's worth noting that a lot of that difference is coming on the powerplay, where Reinhart gets 2-3 times as much time as Coyle does. At even-strength things look better for Coyle:

Coyle
2015-16: 82 GP - 21 G - 19 EVG - 0.23 EVG/GP
2016-17: 82 GP - 18 G - 14 EVG - 0.17 EVG/GP
2017-18: 66 GP - 11 G - 10 EVG - 0.15 EVG/GP

Reinhart
2015-16: 79 GP - 23 G - 15 EVG - .19 EVG/GP
2016-17: 79 GP - 17 G - 8 EVG - .10 EVG/GP
2017-18: 82 GP - 25 G - 15 EVG - .16 EVG/GP

And again, 2017-18 was the season that Coyle had injuries in both wrists that affected his shooting pretty badly, to whatever extent one considers that a factor.

I haven't looked at the quality of the team's powerplays or anything like that. Minnesota's has infuriated Wild fans at times, but my understanding is that it's been average to above-average for the last 2-3 seasons. Coyle faces more competition for powerplay time, which probably explains the difference in PPTOI between the two. I don't necessarily think Coyle's goals would jump past Reinhart's if their PP time was even, but I think it'd be pretty close.

There's no getting around the fact that Reinhart is 4 years younger than Coyle and still has quite a bit of room to grow, especially if the Sabres can improve overall. Coyle's faced harder competition for top-6 and powerplay time, but he's also played on better teams.

Edit: To be explicit - none of the above is meant as an argument for this trade making sense for the Sabres. The age difference makes it pretty clear that they don't do it.

 

[FrodoBeggins]

Oh, you WOULD do Coyle for Reinhart?

And I would do Beaulieu for Dumba.

I never realized that the buffalo fans see in Reinhart that they consider him top. At the moment he is a winger of Eichel, but at the same time he is gaining half as much.

 

[sufferer]

Just to clarify- again- Coyle has two years left on his current contract.

Fair enough, but I still wouldn't trade Mittelstadt for him even if he were signed for eight years at half his worth.

 

[AKL]

Fair enough, but I still wouldn't trade Mittelstadt for him even if he were signed for eight years at half his worth.

I wouldn’t expect you would.

 

[57special]

With the recent trade, the Sabres have beefed up their middle six. Don't think that Coyle is a need for then, anyway, or a player that they are going to give up a good piece/pick for.
Almost every team in the league can find a place for a Charlie Coyle( including the Wild), but the proposed returns on him don't make it worthwhile.

 

[Jim Bob]

With the recent trade, the Sabres have beefed up their middle six. Don't think that Coyle is a need for then, anyway, or a player that they are going to give up a good piece/pick for.
Almost every team in the league can find a place for a Charlie Coyle( including the Wild), but the proposed returns on him don't make it worthwhile.

The Sabres have a big need for a top 6 LW at this point.

I wonder if the OP was thinking that Coyle could fill that need.

 

[57special]

Well, Coyle is a RW/C. Nino or Zucker would be a better fit as a trade target for a straight LW, though Nino also plays RW. BUF has all kinds of needs, but I think they have to be cautious, and not try to fix everything all at once.

 

[Bazeek]

The Sabres have a big need for a top 6 LW at this point.

I wonder if the OP was thinking that Coyle could fill that need.

The Wild's LW's, Zucker and Nino, would probably be easier to pry than Coyle at this point just based on the team's positional depth. I don't think Buffalo really has the pieces for them either, though.

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

Zucker would be a better target for the Sabres as he would immediately be our best LW. Plus our team needs to get faster. Not sure what we could offer for him though.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Zucker would be a better target for the Sabres as he would immediately be our best LW. Plus our team needs to get faster. Not sure what we could offer for him though.

Mittlestadt and a pick maybe?

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

Mittlestadt and a pick maybe?

After trading ROR we can't afford to trade Mittlestadt anymore

 

[57special]

Mittlestadt and a pick maybe?

As much as I like Zucker, that's an unrealistic offer. Mittelstadt alone would be too much....MN would be turning cartwheels if they could get a Mittelstadt/Zucker deal completed.

 

[Digitalbooya]

This is the exact opposite. Sam Reinhart scores half his goals as garbage goals, half as tip ins. His shot is horrendous. His IQ and play making however is decent. He just needs talent around him for a change...

Re-read what I posted.

 

[57special]

Zucker would be a better target for the Sabres as he would immediately be our best LW. Plus our team needs to get faster. Not sure what we could offer for him though.

Don't see it, myself, unless MN decides to take a step back this year and load up on prospects. Asplund is nice, Nylander a ?, a 1st is always nice, though BUF getting Zucker/Dahlin/Mitts/healthy KO would make them a better team, lowering the value of their 1st.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

As much as I like Zucker, that's an unrealistic offer. Mittelstadt alone would be too much....MN would be turning cartwheels if they could get a Mittelstadt/Zucker deal completed.

Well Mittelstadt isnt exactly proven so we could use that as leverage. He has potential yes but i didnt witness him dominate as a gopher when i watched him. I understand your point though just wishful thinking of what they would be willing to offer considering i dont think they want to trade reinhart.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Not really sure that Coyle makes much sense for Buffalo. I don't see them trading Nylander for someone who is ineffective in the defensive zone. So unless you're interested in taking Okposo in a change of scenery trade, no thanks. Also, any idea of trading Sam Reinhart and then settling for Charlie Coyle is laughable.

Who might that be?

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

Don't see it, myself, unless MN decides to take a step back this year and load up on prospects. Asplund is nice, Nylander a ?, a 1st is always nice, though BUF getting Zucker/Dahlin/Mitts/healthy KO would make them a better team, lowering the value of their 1st.

I could see something around Asplund & STL 1st or Nylander + BUF 2nd as i see LW as a huge need. Zucker would likely be a great fit with Eichel.

 

[Bazeek]

I could see something around Asplund & STL 1st or Nylander + BUF 2nd as i see LW as a huge need. Zucker would likely be a great fit with Eichel.

A late 1st + a prospect is generally the trade deadline price for a rental winger that'll be a UFA in 4 months. A 26 year old, 30 goal LW with term should cost more.

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

A late 1st + a prospect is generally the trade deadline price for a rental winger that'll be a UFA in 4 months. A 26 year old, 30 goal LW with term should cost more.

What do you think is realistic then? Yea hes 26 and just hit 30 goals but his stats prior to this season have been underwhelming and hes going to arbitration and will receive a large raise.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I could see something around Asplund & STL 1st or Nylander + BUF 2nd as i see LW as a huge need. Zucker would likely be a great fit with Eichel.

For Zucker? Nahh.

 

[Bazeek]

What do you think is realistic then? Yea hes 26 and just hit 30 goals but his stats prior to this season have been underwhelming and hes going to arbitration and will receive a large raise.

An actual arbitration hearing rarely happens, so that's unlikely. If it does go that far he'll get a 1-year deal that takes him to UFA next summer. Things would have to go pretty pear-shaped for that to happen, but it'd obviously put the Wild in a bad spot.

The more likely scenario is that Zucker re-signs for something like 4-6 years at $5m-$6m sometime before 7/28. At that point, if a team wanted to trade for him I'd hope Fenton wants an asset with significant upside coming back. In general picks seem like a mistake to me, but if the pick was high enough you'd have to consider it. Ditto for prospects. A younger NHL forward with significant upside that hasn't put it all together yet would be preferable, in my mind. Centers in particular.

Failing any of that it's best to keep him.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

What do you think is realistic then? Yea hes 26 and just hit 30 goals but his stats prior to this season have been underwhelming and hes going to arbitration and will receive a large raise.

Honestly, i would accept Nylander + a 2nd. I differ from others obviously but I would love a 6'1 200 lb RW. Reports say he has some speed and a quality shot so ill take his growing pains and allow Nino to take Zuckers spot.

 

[AKL]

Honestly, i would accept Nylander + a 2nd. I differ from others obviously but I would love a 6'1 200 lb RW. Reports say he has some speed and a quality shot so ill take his growing pains and allow Nino to take Zuckers spot.

All that deal does is set us back 5 years and forces us to hope Nylander can be a similar player to Zucker. If we don’t have to trade Zucker, were not going to accept a deal like that.

Again, Reinhart is the target on Buffalo. Even Mittlestadt as a target is questionable due to him having never played in the NHL and being a giant question mark, albeit a promising one.

If Fenton makes a move with Buffalo, it’s either going to be Reinhart, or it’s going to be Mittlestadt+1st for insurance, if he likes Mittlestadt.

Based on the tweaking both he and Leipold implied.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

All that deal does is set us back 5 years and forces us to hope Nylander can be a similar player to Zucker. If we don’t have to trade Zucker, were not going to accept a deal like that.

Again, Reinhart is the target on Buffalo. Even Mittlestadt as a target is questionable due to him having never played in the NHL and being a giant question mark, albeit a promising one.

If Fenton makes a move with Buffalo, it’s either going to be Reinhart, or it’s going to be Mittlestadt+1st for insurance, if he likes Mittlestadt.

Based on the tweaking both he and Leipold implied.

I understand your view and where our team is at. I get all that i am just stating my opinion in general, i think 5 years is an exaggeration considering Nylander, if i read right, can be the same player if not more.

 

[57special]

A late 1st + a prospect is generally the trade deadline price for a rental winger that'll be a UFA in 4 months. A 26 year old, 30 goal LW with term should cost more.

Asplund might end up being pretty good, and while BUF should improve, I see the 1st being a mid teens one. It's a fair deal, but BUFF would need to add some salary in order for the deal to happen cap wise. That's where things get a bit sticky...I mean, we could take Poms back for his final year, but the optics of that would be pretty awful for MN.

Not saying the Wild should, or would do that deal. I love what Zucker brings to the team.

Maybe it's just my familiarity with CM, but I regard him far more highly than Reinhart. Mittelstadt has star potential, and at C to boot, while Reinhart, to me, will top out as a decent top 6'er. Expecting CM AND a 1st for Zucker is crazy...