Speculation: Changes In Calgary: The Search For a New GM Thread

[tyflames]

Wasn't their an article, right after Feaster was fired, that said Nieuwendyk was not interested in the Flames GM job..

Edit: http://www.sportsnet.ca/author/mliddell/
There was so I'm confused with the dicussion.

 

[Volica]

I'm not defending the deal, Dallas lost it big time. But he was trading a young forward with upside, for a young dman with upside. Goligoski had inflated numbers in Pittsburg, as does Neal right now. Goligoski is still around a 40pt guy, making him a top 3 dman. While he is not on Neal's level, I understand the reason he made the trade. It didn't work out the way Dallas had hoped, and they lost the deal, it happens.

Just because a GM loses a deal, or makes a mistake, does not mean they are terrible at their job. I would argue mistakes offer the best learning curves because it can cost a GM his job. If Joe was hired, I expect a much better version of himself than the one that was in Dallas.

Honestly, you could defend the deal at the time it was made.
When the deal was made, Dallas was pretty stacked down the Left Side.
Loui Eriksson, Jamie Benn, Brenden Morrow and James Neal are all natural LW's that were on that team.

On defence, their most dynamic D-man was Stephane Robidas. I mean, he's clearly not offensive dynamite.

They traded from a position of strength to a position of weakness. Benn was younger and putting up similar stats as Neal at the time, it just made him expendable. Eriksson and Morrow were untouchable at that point of time... so there was also that.

At the time of that trade, Goligoski was a 25 year old top 15 in scoring Dman in the NHL... you have to give up a lot to get. To get an idea, what do you guys think would be the price right now to get Hedman or Fowler from their respective teams?

At the time, the trade looked great on paper. I don't think Neal makes these types of scoring strides without Malkin/Crosby... but none-the-less, when this deal was made, it was the going price for what they needed.

 

[Anglesmith]

Honestly, you could defend the deal at the time it was made.
When the deal was made, Dallas was pretty stacked down the Left Side.
Loui Eriksson, Jamie Benn, Brenden Morrow and James Neal are all natural LW's that were on that team.

On defence, their most dynamic D-man was Stephane Robidas. I mean, he's clearly not offensive dynamite.

They traded from a position of strength to a position of weakness.

Not quite, because they also traded away their most dynamic young defenceman in order to get a dynamic young defenceman who was in fact a year older. Then they threw in a huge overpayment in an area of strength. It would be like us trading Baertschi and Brodie for Jake Muzzin.

 

[FLAMES666]

Not quite, because they also traded away their most dynamic young defenceman in order to get a dynamic young defenceman who was in fact a year older. Then they threw in a huge overpayment in an area of strength. It would be like us trading Baertschi and Brodie for Jake Muzzin.

Good comparison, people are really overlooking the fact Niskanen was involved.

 

[Volica]

Not quite, because they also traded away their most dynamic young defenceman in order to get a dynamic young defenceman who was in fact a year older. Then they threw in a huge overpayment in an area of strength. It would be like us trading Baertschi and Brodie for Jake Muzzin.

Actually, at that time; most Stars people were thinking that he was looking like a pretty low scoring D-man; he had struggled mightily the year before and the year he was traded, was looking at putting up similar offensive numbers.

So, your trade doesn't make sense. If Brodie had an awful year last year and this year, then it'd have rhyme/reason.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Not quite, because they also traded away their most dynamic young defenceman in order to get a dynamic young defenceman who was in fact a year older. Then they threw in a huge overpayment in an area of strength. It would be like us trading Baertschi and Brodie for Jake Muzzin.

Exactly this.

I am sure I could go dig up my post from the time of the trade, but I remember saying something close to this. It was pretty obvious at the time of the deal it was awful for Dallas and it became that much worse when Neal meshed with Malkin and started putting up those big numbers.

 

[Anglesmith]

Actually, at that time; most Stars people were thinking that he was looking like a pretty low scoring D-man; he had struggled mightily the year before and the year he was traded, was looking at putting up similar offensive numbers.

So, your trade doesn't make sense. If Brodie had an awful year last year and this year, then it'd have rhyme/reason.

If that's the case, then that just means that the deal was made due to very poor assessment on the management's part. At the time of the trade, Niskanen had already had two seasons which were close to Goligoski's two most recent seasons. Both guys were in that 24 y.o. range where for defencemen, you're only starting to see them figure things out. Knowing the potential that Niskanen had, they never should have undervalued him this badly.

 

[Calculon]

Everyone always ignores the business related aspects of trades, which are more relevant than ever in the new cap world.

Niskanen was cap dump on the Stars part. From what I recall, they believed he had plateaued as a Star (and honestly, he was pretty awful in his last two seasons or so there) and as a team with an internal budget, they needed to move his salary if they wanted to make an upgrade somewhere else. Niskanen managed to turn things around with the Pens mainly because, as he would later state, they play a style more suitable to his own game. It was unlikely he would have progressed in a similar manner in the more defense orientated Stars.

It was alleged the original deal was Goligoski and a pick for Neal but because again, internal budget and all that, Nieuwendyk preferred to dump Niskanen's contract over getting a pick back. And I wouldn't be surprised if Nieuwendyk believed Neal's stats were slightly inflated from playing alongside a 90 point Brad Richards.

All that aside, Nieuwendyk is still a horrible candidate.

 

[Calculon]

I don't get it. Niskanen had a lower AAV than Goligoski at the time of the trade. From Pittsburgh's perspective, that's not a cap dump they're dealing with, it's a gift horse. They gained a forward while exchanging defencemen.

I understand that there are factors that made the deal palatable to Dallas, but they had to recognize that the deal was a coup for Pittsburgh, and make them pay a little more.

Actual salaries (and cap hits) for the 2011-2012 season (the trade was made in February of 2011):

Neal: $3.5M ($2.875M)
Niskanen: $1.75M ($1.5M)
Goligoski: $2.75M ($1.83M)

Stars moved 5.25M in real money out while picking up 2.75M, a difference of 2.5M. That's a decent amount for a budget team. The ceiling in 2011/2012 was 64M; the Stars built a team at just under 50M. Their owner(s?) was having financial issues from what I remember.

It's also a possibility that Nieuwendyk believed Neal was indeed a product of Brad Richards, who by that point, had made it clear he wasn't going to re-sign in Dallas. Maybe Nieuwendyk thought he was moving Neal when his value was the highest, and that without the chemistry between him and Richards, his stats and value would suffer.

Just to be clear though, while I'm suggesting there's more to this trade than the players value, I'm not defending Nieuwendyk. This was basically a worse version of Feaster's Regehr/Kotalik trade. And maybe if Nieuwendyk hadn't signed Adam Pardy to a two year, 2M per contract at the beginning of 2011, he could have been more flexible in moving Niskanen somewhere else.

 

[ReNeGaDe87]

I hope Burke holds out for Holland....

 

[Mike Jones]

I see in this morning's Calgary Herald that McPhee is now rumored to be a candidate for the job. I don't think I've seen his name yet. I guess the reasoning is that his contract is expiring at the end of the season.

Thoughts?

(Note: In the story below mention of McPhee is further down the page)

Link: http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports...ke+sees+untouchable+assets/9406191/story.html

 

[MarkGio]

Here's an interesting article:
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/756830-george-mcphee-and-the-10-worst-gms-in-nhl-history

Joe Nieuwendyk doesn't make that list, but Wadell and McPhee do

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I would HATE McPhee! He does draft well, but the trades that guy makes are terrible.

 

[Lunatik]

I would HATE McPhee! He does draft well, but the trades that guy makes are terrible.

let Burke handle the trades and we are golden

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

let Burke handle the trades and we are golden

Yeah I guess they could be a good tandem and they are friends. The one thing I'll give McPhee credit for is he doesn't make mistakes passing up on good talent in the draft. Burke isn't the best drafter, so that could work.

 

[MarkGio]

Yeah I guess they could be a good tandem and they are friends. The one thing I'll give McPhee credit for is he doesn't make mistakes passing up on good talent in the draft. Burke isn't the best drafter, so that could work.

I like the sound of that. Building off each other's strengths

 

[marbsarebad]

I'd still rather have Mike Futa as GM. Smart guy, with great drafting intuition. It would be kind of pointless to hire him if Burke is going to wait until a week before the draft to hire someone, though. But he's an unproven GM who could learn from Burke while imposing his big-bodied style that the Kings cherish (and a certain truculent minded man wouldn't mind coveting). Burke could mold him into a half-decent trader, and maybe down the road Conroy can take his reigns. That is my absolute ideal outcome.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

2014 CALGARY FLAMES GM and AGM SEARCH

Sorry if someone's done this, I went back 4 pages and couldn't find one

Who would you hire?

I like Benning and Conroy. (although rather keep Burke )

SORRY ABOUT TITLE, DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPEND

 

[MarkGio]

I'm not blaming anyone, but upon trying to merge this thread with another, I accidentally merged our draft thread with the GM search thread.

Can't be undone.

Well, good night folks!

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I'll try and fix things tomorrow.

As for GM, we'll hire Niewendyk after the ceremony tomorrow.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I'll try and fix things tomorrow.

As for GM, we'll hire Niewendyk after the ceremony tomorrow.

I hope so, he's about as classy as they come! I'm sure the fact the Flames are honouring him won't hurt things either.

 

[bWo*]

gmgm is ****ing terrible. i wouldnt even wish him onto the oilers thats how bad he is

 

[MarkGio]

Wow Stewie, did you fix the threads!?

Props dude!

Didn't Burke say that he was waiting for the offseason to pick a GM because he's allowed to speak to other GMs? Not sure why he doesn't talk to LeFontaine. That guy turned the Sabres around fairly well.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Wow Stewie, did you fix the threads!?

Props dude!

Didn't Burke say that he was waiting for the offseason to pick a GM because he's allowed to speak to other GMs? Not sure why he doesn't talk to LeFontaine. That guy turned the Sabres around fairly well.

LeFontaine wanted to have a large influence on the team as hockey president in Buffalo if the rumors are true. If thats the case I dont see him wanting to be under Burke.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

LeFontaine wanted to have a large influence on the team as hockey president in Buffalo if the rumors are true. If thats the case I dont see him wanting to be under Burke.

Here's a quoted post from myself about the situation in Buffalo.

Lafontaine was hired in November as the President of Hockey Operations. He was also in charge of looking for a General Manager for the Sabres. Lafontaine said himself that he wasn't looking to become General Manager, but just to be Hockey President. However, some have said that Lafontaine was looking for an inexperienced GM just so he could have more control over eery single thing in the hockey department. However, he obviously didn't do his homework when hiring Tim Murray. When the Miller trade went down, many have said that Lafontaine was not happy with it. He also saw that he didn't get a bit part of the say in the grand scheme of things. So, he resigned.


It has nothing to do with Nolan as the Sabres have offered him a three-year extension.

Yeah, big no to Lafontaine. Dude can't stay in one place either.