Changes coming to Blackhawks Pro Scouting

Muffinalt

Registered User
Mar 1, 2016
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If you were on this forum pre Joker trade and post Joker trade it’s not that hard to see. It happens with every player Traded. People loved the kid when he first started. If he was on the team his upside is a 2 D man. Now that he was traded his ceiling is a 4.

Maybe true for some or even the majority. But Im also willing to bet most posters didn't watch his wjc or wc that summer where he was the definition of vanilla. I didn't watch him in Rockford but he likely was the same there and Stand and co saw it too.

He looked good for those first few games with us but the latter half a year should have raised serious queations about his ceiling/potential/archetype. He probably tops as a decent player but isn't the destined top pairing, overall beast so many proclaimed him (not to mention the rediculous Hammer comps).

I think what happened was that people just suck with the image of what player he showed to be in those 15ish games. But we've seen how decieving limited sample sizes are (khm Forsling). They never really followed up on that image after his performance dips, which were during a much longer period.

Beating a dead horse here but I totally understand why Stan went for the higher ceiling, but riskier Nylander over the safe but not too special Joki. We are trying to find high impact players.

Complete other matter just how overrated Joki got here. One of the most annoying players and situation for me.
 
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bwana63

carter blanche
Jul 11, 2014
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Maybe true for some or even the majority. But Im also willing to bet most posters didn't watch his wjc or wc that summer where he was the definition of vanilla. I didn't watch him in Rockford but he likely was the same there and Stand and co saw it too.

He looked good for those first few games with us but the latter half a year should have raised serious queations about his ceiling/potential/archetype. He probably tops as a decent player but isn't the destined top pairing, overall beast so many proclaimed him (not to mention the rediculous Hammer comps).

I think what happened was that people just suck with the image of what player he showed to be in those 15ish games. But we've seen how decieving limited sample sizes are (khm Forsling). They never really followed up on that image after his performance dips, which were during a much longer period.

Beating a dead horse here but I totally understand why Stan went for the higher ceiling, but riskier Nylander over the safe but not too special Joki. We are trying to find high impact players.

Complete other matter just how overrated Joki got here. One of the most annoying players and situation for me.

Pretty much this, although one can't discount that we have two RHD we think are better than Joker and that Joker was not expansion draft exempt. </deadhorsebeating>
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
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Joki was fine. Q even said so.

We should have probably gotten more from the trade considered but I believe in Nylanders upside

Maatta is a better player but he's not making a huge impact imo and still can be a liability. Hard to complain for a depth filler, waiting for our prospects to develop

Bullshit on him not making a big impact. Our PK and D is better this year and Maatta along with de Haan have a lot to do with it. Maatta is a good NHL D man who filled a huge hole the Hawks had for a SHD.

Fine was not a compliment with Q most of the time. Joker is a good prospect with good potential but he was playing not to make mistakes (at the end) and this was not good for his development. I still think he turns into a good to really good NHL D man but I think Boqvist and Mitchell turn out to be better. This along with Nylander's potential are why he was traded. If you look at the right side with Joker, this is where he ranks (potential and existing ability both being used). Boqvist > Mitchell > Murphy* > Joker. Murphy's size and physical game are needed to mesh with all of our PMDs.
 

ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
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Our team would be worse and then he would be a 3rd pairing guy in a year.
our team would have more potential while being at the same floor. and opposed to a 3rd pairing guy right now in maatta?
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
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our team would have more potential while being at the same floor. and opposed to a 3rd pairing guy right now in maatta?

Joker has less potential than Boqvist or Mitchell and is not close to as good as Murphy. Maatta plays the left side not the right. Maatta is needed for the kill and in reality he is a #4 SHD in the NHL.

Maatta is criminally underrated around here. It is not an accident that our D are more stable and our PK was worlds better...
 
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bwana63

carter blanche
Jul 11, 2014
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Joker has less potential than Boqvist or Mitchell and is not close to as good as Murphy.

This.

To the Joker die hards: did you really want to roll with Boqvist-Murphy-Joker and have a better prospect in the A? Or, even worse, trade Murphy and roll with all kids? That's a guaranteed lost season, IMO. Something had to give. Hawks made the right call (moving Joker), IMO.
 

ChiHawk21

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Jan 15, 2011
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Joker has less potential than Boqvist or Mitchell and is not close to as good as Murphy. Maatta plays the left side not the right. Maatta is needed for the kill and in reality he is a #4 SHD in the NHL.

Maatta is criminally underrated around here. It is not an accident that our D are more stable and our PK was worlds better...

joker has more potential then maatta. they are the same caliber/tier player right now. Joker is 20 and one season in and Maatta is 25 with a ton of health concerns and is slow skating. Probability is he will age poorly. Its not an accident because it could not get worse then last year. Its also not an accident that penguins traded him when they have a struggling d core as well. Would you trade Maata for Joker 1 for 1 right now? I would in a second.
 

ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
7,310
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This.

To the Joker die hards: did you really want to roll with Boqvist-Murphy-Joker and have a better prospect in the A? Or, even worse, trade Murphy and roll with all kids? That's a guaranteed lost season, IMO. Something had to give. Hawks made the right call (moving Joker), IMO.
No you make tough decisions and move one of the 4 players to the left side. Moving joker was a fine decision the return value wasnt there. Heres essentially what happened. Nylander and Maatta for Joker and Kahun.

I take Joker and Kahun. but again i am higher on joki then others.

Monitoring Jokiharju’s performance in 2019-20
 
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BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
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Minneapolis, MN
joker has more potential then maatta. they are the same caliber/tier player right now. Joker is 20 and one season in and Maatta is 25 with a ton of health concerns and is slow skating. Probability is he will age poorly. Its not an accident because it could not get worse then last year. Its also not an accident that penguins traded him when they have a struggling d core as well. Would you trade Maata for Joker 1 for 1 right now? I would in a second.

Joke is a RD and Maatta is a LD. They don't flip and you keep ignoring this. Not all D flip sides well. It is not Maatta vs Joker, it is Joker vs Boqvist, Mitchell, and Murphy.

I am not down on Joker. He is a good prospect but he is below Mitchell and Boqvist. This is not really debatable to me.

The Pens needed cap space.

Slow skating was not an issue this season with Maatta.

Would you trade Joker for Murphy, Boqvist, or Mitchell? I wouldn't.
 

ClydeLee

Registered User
Mar 23, 2012
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Better skating Maatta (this is a really good player that cup winning teams would want on their roster).

What about Johnny Oduya? Another player that teams win cups with that has a similar skill set.
So is Connor Murphy. Its pretty simple if you didn't trade Joker and protect him, Murphy would have to be exposed. While it might be 1 year of his contract, then they would need someone else or I guess bank on Joker to be ready as a matchup RD heavy pk minutes player for the 21-22 season and on.

And he has potential skillwise but people seem to not focused much on how he played this year. Sure its buffalo and garbage at getting a proper example but he didn't seem to progress to be what some called him to be there right away. The Dahlin partner who steadys the d, instead he was a 3rd pair and not in the main 4 pk rotation guy.
 
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BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
So is Connor Murphy. Its pretty simple if you didn't trade Joker and protect him, Murphy would have to be exposed. While it might be 1 year of his contract, then they would need someone else or I guess bank on Joker to be ready as a matchup RD heavy pk minutes player for the 21-22 season and on.

And he has potential skillwise but people seem to not focused much on how he played this year. Sure its buffalo and garbage at getting a proper example but he didn't seem to progress to be what some called him to be there right away. The Dahlin partner who steadys the d, instead he was a 3rd pair and not in the main 4 pk rotation guy.

Joker was up and down this year but he is still a really good prospect. Joker doesn't have the physical presence to replace Murphy like I would want but this is just me.

I am high on Murphy as I think he is needed on the Hawks and he is very affordable.

To be clear, I am not disagreeing with you.
 

ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
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Actually Jokiharju's ceiling is probably Maatta
ur saying jokiharju ceiling is maatta right now? or maatta at his best? his rookie year he was a beast.

no the RD and LD thing is a cop out. we see so many players do this. hammer are and gus are 2 full time that have done it recently for the blackhawks. 1 of joki murphy boqvist or mitchell could have moved to the other side or you switch back in 2 years when murphy is gone. mitchell and joki are very on par. people got down on joki because he graduated to the nhl and are still up on mitchell because hes still the nhl unknown. joki is younger then mitchell and was thought to be a equal to better prospect less then a year ago with nothing crazy happening for either player.

oduya was mentioned who also switched sides for years until he found his spot with hammer.
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
ur saying jokiharju ceiling is maatta right now? or maatta at his best? his rookie year he was a beast.

no the RD and LD thing is a cop out. we see so many players do this. hammer are and gus are 2 full time that have done it recently for the blackhawks. 1 of joki murphy boqvist or mitchell could have moved to the other side or you switch back in 2 years when murphy is gone. mitchell and joki are very on par. people got down on joki because he graduated to the nhl and are still up on mitchell because hes still the nhl unknown. joki is younger then mitchell and was thought to be a equal to better prospect less then a year ago with nothing crazy happening for either player.

oduya was mentioned who also switched sides for years until he found his spot with hammer.

Haha if you think it is a cop out. Switching side and doing it well are far different things.
 

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