Champions Hockey League opens in August 2014 [without KHL Teams]

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robwangjing

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Jul 10, 2013
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There are already many Swedes playing in Norway, but lower division class players. I don't think they'd up their squad for just a few games, though.
Ah yes maybe, thanks for the answer.

I did however find this from Norwegian newspaper about next season.

http://www.aftenbladet.no/100Sport/ishockey/Erik-Boisvert-ferdig-i-Oilers-431858_1.snd#.U1ihtv49JHg

The squad will be strengthened

Oilers will use two million more on sports next season than this year. The money will be used to get better ones.

- The best players in the team must be even better if we are to take another step next year. We have simply pointed peaks, says Higson.

- Is it good enough Norwegian players that it is realistic that the Oilers get hold of?

- Yes, it does. We will fetch good quality foreign players, but I'm pretty sure we will see that there are good Norwegian players enter next season, says Higson.

If the online translation is understandable enough to seems they will aim to get better Norwegian and foreigners for their team. And will spend 2 million extra(Norwegian currency I assume) on their roster.
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
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Does it even need to be mentioned that Jokerit finished 9th in the Finnish league and hasn't won the title in 12 years? Or that VÃ¥lerenga aren't even the Norwegian champions?

Not fair Jussi, not fair and you know it!

There is a big different among Jokerit being 9th and lets say Linköpings or HV71 being 9th or 10th (just random club). Jokerit will increase budget, the same will do VIF Oslo to have at least 10M euro. That can not be said in case of Linköpings, HV71 and others CHL clubs. That was said by one famous swedish hockey journalist for webhokej24.sk.Everyone knows it, CHL clubs will not increase their budget to have at least 10-15M euro.
 

Jussi

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Ah yes maybe, thanks for the answer.

I did however find this from Norwegian newspaper about next season.

http://www.aftenbladet.no/100Sport/ishockey/Erik-Boisvert-ferdig-i-Oilers-431858_1.snd#.U1ihtv49JHg



If the online translation is understandable enough to seems they will aim to get better Norwegian and foreigners for their team. And will spend 2 million extra(Norwegian currency I assume) on their roster.

Why do you talk about Stavanger when it's VÃ¥lerenga that plans to move to KHL?


@ vorky Who cares about Jokerit budget, it doesn't make them any better. 2/3 of the budget increase is coming from Russian owners or "sponsors" anyway since that kind of money isn't doable with the state of Finnish economy and the current non-interest in Russian markets has scared away Finnish companies from there (= no interest in sponsoring).
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
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Jussi, you dont understand what I wrote.

Imagine that Jokerit is NOT joining KHL, is staying in Liiga and playing CHL. Would Jokerit sign lets say Harju, Omark,Gunderson in this scenario? Of course not, because Jokerit would not increase budget. And these playing would stay in SHL or go to NLA, KHL or NHL. And here is a point. Linköpings, HV71 etc will not increase budgets to sign better players to play CHL, but Jokerit has increased budget to sign better players for KHL innaugural season. And Jokerit will increase budget in 15/16 comparing to 14/15, like Lev Prague did this season (bigger budget than previous season).

Read this
Do you think that clubs playing Champions Hockey League will buy
better players (from NHL for example) before starting in new Champions
Hockey League?

Not a chance. There's to little money involved. And the status of the league is not known yet.

What do you think about model of new Champions Hockey League? Will it
be more succesful than its last edition in 2009? How much money does
Champions Hockey League pay as prize money?

You better check it with the organisers but I believe the winners get 50,000 Euro. Furthermore, to make it really succesfull, I think it is necessary that teams from the KHL join CHL. Who wouldn't want the best team to join a tournament called "Champions Hockey League"?
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
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Why do you talk about Stavanger when it's VÃ¥lerenga that plans to move to KHL?


@ vorky Who cares about Jokerit budget, it doesn't make them any better. 2/3 of the budget increase is coming from Russian owners or "sponsors" anyway since that kind of money isn't doable with the state of Finnish economy and the current non-interest in Russian markets has scared away Finnish companies from there (= no interest in sponsoring).

Finnish companies not interested about Russian market? Lol. You're being delusional in this one. Getting your product sold in major St. Petersburg shops gets you more buyers than whole Finland and it's just one town. There is no what so ever trend at all that Russian markets wouldn't be non-interest. The Krim situation doesn't really affect the companies that work in Russia like Valio, because it's not problem inside Russia. Exporters who already do business in Russia are most probable Jokerit sponsors. Exported Presidentti coffee for example costs around 6-8€ per package in Moscow shops, where it's very high quality, if its high quality ever day coffee in Finland. And moscow has much more people than whole Finland. How would there be no interest to export quality for Russian consumers? Because share owners are shedding tears for some actions in Krim?

As long as they don't straight support any war actions and stay out of that business, exporting business is really in interests and it's important to have good relations with Russia in the future, too. Harkimo is doing extremely good job and I bet products owned or marketed by him will find their way in Moscow in the future.
 
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Jussi

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Finnish companies not interested about Russian market? Lol. You're being delusional in this one. Getting your product sold in major St. Petersburg shops gets you more buyers than whole Finland and it's just one town. There is no what so ever trend at all that Russian markets wouldn't be non-interest. The Krim situation doesn't really affect the companies that work in Russia like Valio, because it's not problem inside Russia. Exporters who already do business in Russia are most probable Jokerit sponsors. Exported Presidentti coffee for example costs around 6-8€ per package in Moscow shops, where it's very high quality, if its high quality ever day coffee in Finland. And moscow has much more people than whole Finland. How would there be no interest to export quality for Russian consumers? Because share owners are shedding tears for some actions in Krim?

As long as they don't straight support any war actions and stay out of that business, exporting business is really in interests and it's important to have good relations with Russia in the future, too. Harkimo is doing extremely good job and I bet products owned or marketed by him will find their way in Moscow in the future.

For example Stockmann stopped all future investments into Russia and will focus on their stores in Moscow and St. Petersburg. Nokian Renkaat are also not doing well. Have you completely ignored the comments in several financial publications by Finnish companies essentially getting screwed by Putin and how no one is interested in investing there?
 

QnebO

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For example Stockmann stopped all future investments into Russia and will focus on their stores in Moscow and St. Petersburg. Nokian Renkaat are also not doing well. Have you completely ignored the comments in several financial publications by Finnish companies essentially getting screwed by Putin and how no one is interested in investing there?

Of course the situation has created certain problems but the market potential and huge ass customer loads are still there. I know the current situation of ruble and sanctions have affects that you stated though, but it wont (at this point) stop all these companies doing business there.

If Hjallis has good relations to Rothenbergs ect, Harkimo can possibly help their (new) sponsors that are operating in Russia to do succesfull business in Russia, regardless of the situation.
 

Jussi

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Of course the situation has created certain problems but the market potential and huge ass customer loads are still there. I know the current situation of ruble and sanctions have affects that you stated though, but it wont (at this point) stop all these companies doing business there.

If Hjallis has good relations to Rothenbergs ect, Harkimo can possibly help their (new) sponsors that are operating in Russia to do succesfull business in Russia, regardless of the situation.

The risks are too great for many right now compared to potential benefits.
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
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The risks are too great for many right now compared to potential benefits.

In the bad times, good relationships are even more important. If there will be solid (big) sponsor deals, it would be trough selling the possibility to use those connections, not playing their commercial @ jaffa for couple of thousand Finns. That's kinda the point I'm approaching. That's why Jokerit could interest some big companies that work in Russia.

The problem is, no one here can exactly know what good can Rothenbergs offer and what kind of brothers they do know in Russia, but if the connections to Putin are as strong as advertised, there might be something else as well.
 

robwangjing

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Why do you talk about Stavanger when it's VÃ¥lerenga that plans to move to KHL?
Because I am talking about a Champions Hockey League team, in a Champions Hockey League thread. And I could not find any other thread about CHL to talk about them in. :nod:

For a while I felt like I was the only one staying on topic, but perhaps I am the one going off-topic? HF Boards confuses me sometimes. Really.
 

Jussi

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Because I am talking about a Champions Hockey League team, in a Champions Hockey League thread. And I could not find any other thread about CHL to talk about them in. :nod:

For a while I felt like I was the only one staying on topic, but perhaps I am the one going off-topic? HF Boards confuses me sometimes. Really.

There's one in the International Tournament section, which is really the proper place to discuss this tournament. This thread shouldn't really be in this place.
 

pulverapa

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Jul 22, 2011
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Ya... Gradual 'organic' growth where you largely remain self-sufficient and live within your means probably isn't as exciting as wondering if your club is going to be bailed out so your last pay cheque doesn't bounce and your job survives into next season but few things in life are.

Anyway... Before this thread goes off the rails again and gets locked I guess I will give my .02 cents on a few things...

The name - Ya, I think we can all agree the name kind of sucks and really doesn't provide an accurate description of the tournament. You know what other tournament has a bad name? UEFA's Champions League... Nearly half the spots in the competition's main stage are reserved for teams that aren't champions. Despite the name the UCL is a monster. There are probably plenty of reasons why the CHL might not be a success but it's name isn't one of them.

Prize Money - It would be better if there was tens of millions of $ up for grabs but IMHO it isn't a necessity. Basketball's Euroleague has been built into something clubs, players and fans all care about and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of money to be won in that either.

Russian Money - It would probably be better to have everyone on board but I'm not sure why some think the CHL is doomed to fail without the backing of Russia or the KHL. The clubs involved in the CHL have been around for decades as have the domestic leagues they play in and they have all managed to survived this long without the support of Russia's oligarchy.

Participation - Detractors here seem to be hung up on the fact Djurgarden will be playing in the tournament next year as if somehow this is a huge blow to the legitmacy or prestige of the CHL. I find this odd because if Djurgarden failed in their promotion attempt, lost their place in the CHL and was faced with another year in the 2nd tier many on this board would be looking at them as a potential and desirable club to join the KHL. I mean how often has Malmo, a club that has spent the better part of the last decade mired in the 2nd tier, been brought up as a club that would be a great addition to the KHL? So just to make sure I understand Djurgarden in the CHL = CHL is a joke... An even worse club to the KHL = Europe's best league just became that much better!?
The Format - 10 groups of 4 with 16 advancing to the knockout stage doesn't work all that well. Scheduling/available dates probably wouldn't allow for it but I think it would have been better to have a field of 32 with some teams having to play their way in through prelims. This would have also allowed some of the clubs/leagues that applied but were denied participation due to the field of 40 already being filled up a chance to be involved. The fact that there was more interest than spots available is a good sign for the CHL but they should have taken advantage of the interest and hopefully next year they will.

Yeah, and still we made it to the finals last season, as a 2nd tier team, and brought 500 people to Berlin creating the party of the century.
 

CPFC

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For example Stockmann stopped all future investments into Russia and will focus on their stores in Moscow and St. Petersburg. Nokian Renkaat are also not doing well. Have you completely ignored the comments in several financial publications by Finnish companies essentially getting screwed by Putin and how no one is interested in investing there?

It's not that black & white. Some companies are doing less than well, while some are seeing constant growth. Valio, for example, has been forced to expand their production facilities to keep up with the demand in Russia. Myllyn Paras is also aggressively expanding to Russia and their goal is to take up a 20% share of the local cereal market. In general, Finnish food and dairy industry is doing pretty well in Russia.

Russian investments to Finland have also been constantly growing, so perhaps sponsors could be found from there as well.
 

quartus

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May 11, 2011
178
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Ah yes maybe, thanks for the answer.

I did however find this from Norwegian newspaper about next season.

http://www.aftenbladet.no/100Sport/ishockey/Erik-Boisvert-ferdig-i-Oilers-431858_1.snd#.U1ihtv49JHg



If the online translation is understandable enough to seems they will aim to get better Norwegian and foreigners for their team. And will spend 2 million extra(Norwegian currency I assume) on their roster.

Oh, I see. Seems a bit risky though, in my mind. I don't think they'll get the 2 million back. Unless they aim at a good CHL tenure and a national championship combo. Then they might get the money back and end at 0.

Maybe they're trying to check how it would be to play in the KHL, with added player budget, travels etc?
 

quartus

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May 11, 2011
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When do we get to know the schedule or at least which teams plays in what group?

The ten groups will be determined by a draw taking place on 21 May 2014 in Minsk, Belarus.

says Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Champions_Hockey_League


EDIT: Honestly, I think the CHL is making the same mistake as the KHL. Having too many teams. Look at the Champions League, it's only 32 teams and therefore have a very exclusive feel to it. They should've started with 32 here too.
 
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Exarz

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Jan 1, 2014
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The ten groups will be determined by a draw taking place on 21 May 2014 in Minsk, Belarus.

says Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Champions_Hockey_League


EDIT: Honestly, I think the CHL is making the same mistake as the KHL. Having too many teams. Look at the Champions League, it's only 32 teams and therefore have a very exclusive feel to it. They should've started with 32 here too.

32 teams is perfect, but there should be a pre-qualification system for the last spot in each of the eight groups.

By using that, we get more clubs and countries involved with the Champions Hockey League.

Edit: Having eight groups of five teams, where the two best teams go to the eight finals feels better than giving "the six best group runners-up" a playoff spot as well..
 

TemplateR

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Jan 4, 2014
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EDIT: Honestly, I think the CHL is making the same mistake as the KHL. Having too many teams. Look at the Champions League, it's only 32 teams and therefore have a very exclusive feel to it. They should've started with 32 here too.

Same mistake as KHL? Why do you think, that KHL has much teams?
 

quartus

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Same mistake as KHL? Why do you think, that KHL has much teams?

They already have more teams than the NHL next season (31 teams with Jokerit, Lada and Sochi). And seeing as they've said that 32 is a good number they'll have to get rid of lots of clubs if they want to add more western european ones.

Had they started with less teams they could've had higher financial and arena demands on the clubs involved, the fans would've had it easier to get to know the teams and the players in the league, no need to exclude clubs when adding, etc.
 

Exarz

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They already have more teams than the NHL next season (31 teams with Jokerit, Lada and Sochi). And seeing as they've said that 32 is a good number they'll have to get rid of lots of clubs if they want to add more western european ones.

Had they started with less teams they could've had higher financial and arena demands on the clubs involved, the fans would've had it easier to get to know the teams and the players in the league, no need to exclude clubs when adding, etc.

I just want to point out that NHL will probably contain 32 teams as well in a couple of years.

I agree that they need to get rid of a lot of Russian clubs to make KHL more attractive in Europe, but it was hard doing that from the beginning (your point about having fewer teams from the start), since it basically was the whole RSL switching to KHL..
 

quartus

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I just want to point out that NHL will probably contain 32 teams as well in a couple of years.

I agree that they need to get rid of a lot of Russian clubs to make KHL more attractive in Europe, but it was hard doing that from the beginning (your point about having fewer teams from the start), since it basically was the whole RSL switching to KHL..

Yeah, I guess that was the issue. But that should've definitely not been an issue with CHL.

With NHL it's a bit different though, they don't have to get rid of any teams and they certainly don't have to rush. With KHL it's still a bit crucial with it's survival. Getting more European teams would help and they know it.
 

Exarz

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Yeah, I guess that was the issue. But that should've definitely not been an issue with CHL.

With NHL it's a bit different though, they don't have to get rid of any teams and they certainly don't have to rush. With KHL it's still a bit crucial with it's survival. Getting more European teams would help and they know it.

Agreed. Teams like Spartak, Atlant, Vityaz, Neftekhimik, Yugra, Severstal and Novokuznetsk should be replaced by Western clubs, and then move all the Russian clubs East of "Central Moscow", or East of St. Petersburg to the Eastern Conference, to create a new Eastern and Western Conference!

Teams like SKA, CSKA, Dynamo (perhaps Sochi, I can't decide if they should be in the Western of Eastern Conference with "this system") would be attractive to watch in the Western countries.
 

Jussi

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The ten groups will be determined by a draw taking place on 21 May 2014 in Minsk, Belarus.

says Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Champions_Hockey_League


EDIT: Honestly, I think the CHL is making the same mistake as the KHL. Having too many teams. Look at the Champions League, it's only 32 teams and therefore have a very exclusive feel to it. They should've started with 32 here too.

Not directly comparable as one is a tournament and one is a league.
 

TemplateR

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Agreed. Teams like Spartak, Atlant, Vityaz, Neftekhimik, Yugra, Severstal and Novokuznetsk should be replaced by Western clubs, and then move all the Russian clubs East of "Central Moscow", or East of St. Petersburg to the Eastern Conference, to create a new Eastern and Western Conference!

So you mean, to create a new league only with russian and asian-teams? Why not.

Teams like SKA, CSKA, Dynamo (perhaps Sochi, I can't decide if they should be in the Western of Eastern Conference with "this system") would be attractive to watch in the Western countries.

2 teams from moscau is enough for one pan-european-league. But we should discuss somewhere else about it.
 

Exarz

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So you mean, to create a new league only with russian and asian-teams? Why not.



2 teams from moscau is enough for one pan-european-league. But we should discuss somewhere else about it.

Last post about it in this thread, heading too much OT

No, I ment replacing the Russian clubs I named, with more attractive Western clubs, and move the current Russian teams in the Western Conference (except for SKA, CSKA and Dynamo) to the Eastern Conference. The league will remain the same.
 
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