Prospect Info: Chabot - potential

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
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Arguing with you is like arguing with a little kid .. you take extreme positions and put words in peoples mouths. I am not going to engage with you any more
Sure thing.

I'm taking the EXTREME position that it is possible for an NHL coach to design a PP unit that takes advantage of having both EK and Chabot on the ice at the same time.

You are the one making personal attacks and you have the gall to claim I'm the one arguing like "a little kid".

Here's a hint. If you don't want ridiculous ideas to face strong criticism, don't post (and then defend) ridiculous ideas.
 

BatherSeason

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Jun 16, 2009
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If Karlsson was here we would not have seen this as much because the same opportunity would not be there

That's why NHL coaches make big bucks. GB could not figure out how to deploy both of these guys properly because he was too concerned about Chabot's ability to eat steak.

A good NHL coach would have figured out how to make it work with 2 superstar dmen in his lineup.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
65,259
49,885
I agree with @Sensung, why is it impossible to have both guys contribute on the PP? Its not like EK was the guy who designed the PP.
I didn't say its impossible did I? I said its unlikely , particularly if they use an umbrella. Both could play on it. but 1 would QB it. I was just suggesting that Chabot would not have the same opportunities if Karlsson was here.. Is that so out there:? They could use them both on the PP , my opinion is one would end up QBing one unit and the other the 2nd unit. Given Karlsson's tenure , it would , likely be Chabot on the 2nd. Not impossible to use them both.. Never said that
 

Sensung

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Oct 3, 2017
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I agree with @Sensung, why is it impossible to have both guys contribute on the PP? Its not like EK was the guy who designed the PP.
Especially when both have good one timers and could easily slide down to the half wall in a shifting umbrella formation.

Having the ability to switch who was up top on the umbrella would make it even more difficult to stop our PP.
 

Bileur

Registered User
Jun 15, 2004
18,512
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Ottawa
Especially when both have good one timers and could easily slide down to the half wall in a shifting umbrella formation.

Having the ability to switch who was up top on the umbrella would make it even more difficult to stop our PP.

The vision, mobility and shots of EK, TC and Stone together on a PP would be unbelievable, particularly if we developed a PP with a lot of movement.
 
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BatherSeason

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Jun 16, 2009
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I was just suggesting that Chabot would not have the same opportunities if Karlsson was here..

I agree with this statement as well. With GB as the coach, you are right, Chabot would not have the opportunities, however, with competent coaching, the sky would be the limit. GB had the chance to maximize his roster last season and multiple times scratched Chabot for Oduya. One of the primary reasons for the decline of this team last year was Guy Boucher, that seems to have get completely overlooked because of the two ring circus of PD and EM. The inability to make adjustments to the PP, player deployment, line combinations, too many men penalties, Gabriel Dumont, etc. As bad as PD is as a General Manager, one could argue that his coach's performance last year was worse.
 

Sensung

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Oct 3, 2017
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I agree with this statement as well. With GB as the coach, you are right, Chabot would not have the opportunities, however, with competent coaching, the sky would be the limit. GB had the chance to maximize his roster last season and multiple times scratched Chabot for Oduya. One of the primary reasons for the decline of this team last year was Guy Boucher, that seems to have get completely overlooked because of the two ring circus of PD and EM. The inability to make adjustments to the PP, player deployment, line combinations, too many men penalties, Gabriel Dumont, etc. As bad as PD is as a General Manager, one could argue that his coach's performance last year was worse.
To be fair GB has taken over the PP this year and it looks fantastic.

Would look even better with EK...thanks Eugene.
 

NorthCoast

Registered User
May 1, 2017
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I agree with this statement as well. With GB as the coach, you are right, Chabot would not have the opportunities, however, with competent coaching, the sky would be the limit. GB had the chance to maximize his roster last season and multiple times scratched Chabot for Oduya. One of the primary reasons for the decline of this team last year was Guy Boucher, that seems to have get completely overlooked because of the two ring circus of PD and EM. The inability to make adjustments to the PP, player deployment, line combinations, too many men penalties, Gabriel Dumont, etc. As bad as PD is as a General Manager, one could argue that his coach's performance last year was worse.

The Point at Which Talent Trumps Chemistry

This has got to be one of the most frustrating things as a fans isn't it. Put any two elite players together and you would think they would be better at beating the competition. Forget point totals, because as Anarchy pointed out, if both players are in separate situations where everything funnels through them, the point totals might go down, even if the PP% increases.

But I find the chemistry/coaching mystery very frustrating, because if the sens played team canada there is no question the sens get slaughtered, because no matter what the chemistry is, at that level skill trumps chemistry almost every time. But at the micro level this does not apply and you get Chris Kunitz playing wing with Crosby instead of Kessel.

It's frustrating because you could both be right or wrong depending on which two players you stick together, and you could even be right or wrong with the same two players but a different coach/system.
 
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krapsik

Registered User
Nov 13, 2009
1,478
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Estonia
I think Chabot potential is above Karlsson. He is bigger, not slower, and as we see in a moment, he can surpass someday Karlsson points per season.
And cause he is "Canadian boy", its easier for him get Norris in tiebreaking situations.
 
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ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,764
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Dubai Marina
I did not think Chabot would be this good. I told everyone he is gonna breakout this year and be a number 1-2 defender but I thought in the mold of a 40ish point guy with great defense. I didn't think he'd flirt with 60+ that's insane.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,357
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Victoria
That's why NHL coaches make big bucks. GB could not figure out how to deploy both of these guys properly because he was too concerned about Chabot's ability to eat steak.

A good NHL coach would have figured out how to make it work with 2 superstar dmen in his lineup.

OR..... GB was concerned with making sure that the focus was on Chabot's long term development rather than trying to make the PP better. Has it occurred to you that besides the fact that he wasn't running the PP, that he did figure it out, and that Chabot was deployed exactly as planned?

I'm not really sure we can look at how great Chabot has been so far this year and not consider that perhaps GB's efforts to develop Chabot slowly may have something to do with it.

It's funny watching people complain about rushing players, and then complain about taking their time with players. The common denominator always seeming to be to insist that whatever the opposite of what is happening is the better choice.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,357
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Victoria
EK played almost the entire PP every time. He would have to relinquish half the PP time of the two were to play on the same team. On the same line it would be frustrating because there can only be one QB at a time.

This PP is much more dangerous because players are looking to pass and share the puck, that was not really EK's thing. He tended to want to pass the puck around and then get it back and make the PP scoring play.

You can't just throw talent together and expect it to work. The example of Team Canada is the perfect example, but not how it was used. Team Canada is always made with chemistry, not just raw skill in mind. Arguably better or more skilled players are left off every year because chemistry character and roles are just as, if not more, important to team wins.

Stacked NY, TOR, and Avalanche teams struggled year after year because straight talent doesn't win championships.

If EK was still here he would be better suited to see if he could make magic on the second until with Lajoie and BT. The first until is already really good the way it is, and I think EK, being the player he is, would not make it better, but would change it to something different and less potent.
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
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Chabot really excels as a PP QB.. If Karlsson was here we would not have seen this as much because the same opportunity would not be there. As good and as dynamic , quick and fast as Karlsson could be, I think I like Chabot as the PP QB more.

Exactly, he would have got the last 30 seconds, or whenever Erik felt finished with the PP
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,121
9,694
Arguing with you is like arguing with a little kid .. you take extreme positions and put words in peoples mouths. I am not going to engage with you any more
I stopped engaging some time ago....my first ever use of the ignore button....what's funny is you can tell when someone is engaged just reading one side of the conversation ….the frustration shines through
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
EK played almost the entire PP every time. He would have to relinquish half the PP time of the two were to play on the same team. On the same line it would be frustrating because there can only be one QB at a time.

This PP is much more dangerous because players are looking to pass and share the puck, that was not really EK's thing. He tended to want to pass the puck around and then get it back and make the PP scoring play.

You can't just throw talent together and expect it to work. The example of Team Canada is the perfect example, but not how it was used. Team Canada is always made with chemistry, not just raw skill in mind. Arguably better or more skilled players are left off every year because chemistry character and roles are just as, if not more, important to team wins.

Stacked NY, TOR, and Avalanche teams struggled year after year because straight talent doesn't win championships.

If EK was still here he would be better suited to see if he could make magic on the second until with Lajoie and BT. The first until is already really good the way it is, and I think EK, being the player he is, would not make it better, but would change it to something different and less potent.
What a load!

Both could be deployed on the 1st unit. To suggest otherwise is simply foolish and ignores both player's skillsets.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
I stopped engaging some time ago....my first ever use of the ignore button....what's funny is you can tell when someone is engaged just reading one side of the conversation ….the frustration shines through
<3
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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Sure thing.

I'm taking the EXTREME position that it is possible for an NHL coach to design a PP unit that takes advantage of having both EK and Chabot on the ice at the same time.


How about Peter DeBoer having EK65 and Brent Burns available for the Sharks PP?


BTW, the Senators don't have EK65 on their PP anymore, and their PP is currently better than the San Jose Sharks PP.



Especially when both have good one timers and could easily slide down to the half wall in a shifting umbrella formation.

Having the ability to switch who was up top on the umbrella would make it even more difficult to stop our PP.


Peter DeBoer does not use both EK and BB on the PP at the same time, the switch out with each other during the PP. On Wednesday, in Toronto, he wasn’t on the ice for a single Sharks goal, but he was on the ice for three goals against, two of them with the Maple Leafs on the power play. He’s not a first-unit power-play QB, that spot, for the most part is still fellow Norris Trophy winner Brent Burns.






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SensFactor

Registered User
Oct 25, 2008
11,003
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Ottawa
Our PP was one dimensional last year. Whatever they have done this year (and yes it could just be personnel) is working. To me Chabot isn't Karlsson yet, but his ceiling is much higher than I thought it would be last year. He has already shown signs to be a better defensive player than Karlsson is.
 
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topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
27,993
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Chabot is a top pairing defender,wish we could find a RHD to pair with him for the next 10 years......
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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There's no reason why he can't. Burns has an amazing shot, Karlsson is the best passer on the team.


Peter DeBoer does not use both EK and BB on the PP at the same time, they switch out with each other during the PP.



On Wednesday, in Toronto, he wasn’t on the ice for a single Sharks goal, but he was on the ice for three goals against, two of them with the Maple Leafs on the power play. He’s not a first-unit power-play QB, that spot, for the most part is still fellow Norris Trophy winner Brent Burns.
 

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