Confirmed Trade: [CGY/CAR] Noah Hanifin and Elias Lindholm for Dougie Hamilton, Michael Ferland, and Adam Fox

[Ziggdiezan]

The expectations on Hanifin are going to be huge after this trade. I'm guessing Gio and Brodie will play together again with maybe a Hamonic and Hanifin second pairing?

Hopefully Flames will be able to provide that pairing with a ton of offensive starts (Hanifin gets around 63 oZS% at ES) and pretty easy QoC ( Hanifin had worst QoC on flames along with his majority partner TvR) or else I think he is going to fall flat completely.

 

[GoldiFox]

The expectations on Hanifin are going to be huge after this trade. I'm guessing Gio and Brodie will play together again with maybe a Hamonic and Hanifin second pairing?

Hopefully Flames will be able to provide that pairing with a ton of offensive starts (Hanifin gets around 63 oZS% at ES) and pretty easy QoC ( Hanifin had worst QoC on flames along with his majority partner TvR) or else I think he is going to fall flat completely.

The plan for the Canes at the beginning of the last year was to roll out Slavin-Pesce top-pair along with Hanifin-Faulk 2nd pair. That 2nd pair was an unmitigated disaster under Peters system. Hanifin lacked the experience and awareness to not get consistently beat by top-6 forwards in the defensive zone. Faulk got caught flat footed far too often in transition leading to lots of 2-on-1s. Faulk provided no safety net for Hanifin and it was ugly. Hanifin had to be shifted to the 3rd pair and sheltered while Faulk got minutes on the 1st pair (Slavin-Faulk) or the 2nd pair (Haydn Fleury - Faulk).

If Hamonic can provide a decent safety net for Hanifin then I think that he can develop well on the 2nd pair.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

We’ve watched him for 3 years. Yes I get it, he’s 21 but I’ve watched Pronger and that development and other players. There were special things going on even when they we really young. I completely agree he has a lot of time and I hope he starts figuring things out.

The first month or two at least you’re going to love the skating and he IS becoming more confident offensively. He will join the attack and he wants to make the difference offensively. You’ll love that actually. Having Hamonic there will be a very good thing. Hanifin can skate well enough to get back almost every time. Problem is who he picks up on the way back. He loses guys, can’t figure out where to be, has very poor instincts on coverage in general. Doesn’t “feel” guys getting position on him. I’ve never seen any age defenseman so many times looking to the heavens trying to figure what went wrong and how the puck went in when the guy he originally should’ve had was the culprit.

He really lost steam in the second half and even the offense was gone. I remember a quote of his sometime over the last two seasons, where he admitted he had NEVER been coached defensively. They just told him to go do his thing. He basically started from scratch with the Canes which explains a lot about how he got here like this and how it’s gone since.

He is only 21. I know the things I say sound easily correctable and normal for a young d. All I can say is I’m not surprised the Canes gave up on him, and while it was still early enough to maximize some value. Even without the regime change I thought it very possible. The contract talk was a smoke screen, they barely talked to Hanifin. They made a decision early on he was a guy they wanted to use to make the changes.

And if there was one play where you just really wondered about his future with the Canes it was this one, which happened after the sale with the new owner watching and publicly vocally wondering what was going on with this team down the stretch...

The last goal at the 35 second mark.

https://youtu.be/QdQVtc3xwSc

I thought his giveaway in the slot in the Washington game to give the game away (the day after the sale) was equally telling, but I'd forgotten about getting outmuscled and outworked by Johnson there.

 

[King In The North]

This trade will help CGY down the road as I think Hanifin has a much higher ceiling than that of Hamilton's but today is nowhere near as good offensively has Hamilton. Ferland produced well with Johnny and Monahan....Fox wasn't going to sign.

Lindholm is a decent 2nd line 40-45 point producer.

Saying that...WTF is in the water the Oilers and Flames give their GMs....

Chiarelli last year ...Strome in for Eberle
BT last year ... Hamonic in for 2018 1st (Noah Dobson), 2nd (Ruslan Iskhakov) and 2nd in 2019/20

Good post.

The Hamonic trade looks hella bad given where we landed this year in the rankings. At the time, we thought it'd be a fair deal. But damn, to have Dobson and Valimaki in our pipeline...

 

[Reaper94]

I'm not commenting on value at all, but I will just say that- as an outsider- I'm surprised the Flames moved Ferland.

Don't be. He was invisible down the stretch and played soft. For a minute there he may have actually thought he belonged on the top line instead of the 3rd.

 

[Reaper94]

Only thing that I can recall with Hamilton having attitude issues was when Freddie was placed on waivers but other than that nothing. I guess reports are coming out now about it. But OT here would it have been better to have traded Hamilton for a 1 for 1 deal to get a player of equal calibre? (not sure who would be a comparable ROR?)

Apparently Hamilton refused to do media after they traded his brother. Big baby.

 

[Calgareee]

Apparently Hamilton refused to do media after they traded his brother. Big baby.

They didn’t even trade him. He was put on waivers to go to Stockton where he would actually play. Just happened to get claimed instead

 

[blankall]

Hamilton time to UFA: 3 years
Hanifin time to UFA: 4 years

Ferland time to UFA: 1 year
Lindholm time to UFA: 2 years

Flames add one year to each position and give up up 5-7 RFA years of Fox.

Certainly the Flames can sign Hanifin and Lindholm to longer-term deals and buy out UFA years. However I wouldn't count that against the Canes for two reasons: 1) It isn't known if the Canes actually wanted to buy out UFA years for these two guys and 2) it isn't known if these two players were willing to sign any deal past their 7 required years.

If Flames fans are going to make an argument of "Fox isn't really a minus because he wouldn't sign with the Flames" then they must also recognize the argument of "Extra bought UFA years for Lindholm/Hanifin aren't really a minus for the Canes because the Canes either didn't want or didn't have the opportunity to acquire them".

Lindholm has starte he's looking to sign long term in Calgary. Expect his contract to include UFA years. Ferland was gone in a year, Fox would never sign here, and Hamilton didn't like it here either.

This was a positive long term asset move.

 

[DFF]

Hamilton time to UFA: 3 years
Hanifin time to UFA: 4 years

Ferland time to UFA: 1 year
Lindholm time to UFA: 2 years

Flames add one year to each position and give up up 5-7 RFA years of Fox.

Certainly the Flames can sign Hanifin and Lindholm to longer-term deals and buy out UFA years. However I wouldn't count that against the Canes for two reasons: 1) It isn't known if the Canes actually wanted to buy out UFA years for these two guys and 2) it isn't known if these two players were willing to sign any deal past their 7 required years.

If Flames fans are going to make an argument of "Fox isn't really a minus because he wouldn't sign with the Flames" then they must also recognize the argument of "Extra bought UFA years for Lindholm/Hanifin aren't really a minus for the Canes because the Canes either didn't want or didn't have the opportunity to acquire them".

You are assuming fox is a sure nhler

He is not for many reasons

From the flames perspective, we have to wait for the signing but I am pretty sure BT will lock them up longer. Signing is his best attribute

 

[Ziggdiezan]

The plan for the Canes at the beginning of the last year was to roll out Slavin-Pesce top-pair along with Hanifin-Faulk 2nd pair. That 2nd pair was an unmitigated disaster under Peters system. Hanifin lacked the experience and awareness to not get consistently beat by top-6 forwards in the defensive zone. Faulk got caught flat footed far too often in transition leading to lots of 2-on-1s. Faulk provided no safety net for Hanifin and it was ugly. Hanifin had to be shifted to the 3rd pair and sheltered while Faulk got minutes on the 1st pair (Slavin-Faulk) or the 2nd pair (Haydn Fleury - Faulk).

If Hamonic can provide a decent safety net for Hanifin then I think that he can develop well on the 2nd pair.

Hamonic is more defensively inclined so I think he will be a lot better of a partner for Hanifin.

However I'm guessing the Flames are going to change up how their top pairing plays. Gio and Hamilton saw more offensive zone starts than Brodie and Hamonic. Hamonic having the toughest zone usage of any flames defender.

I'm guessing we will see their new top pairing used more defensively like it has in the past. I just worry for Hanifin as I think the Flames are going to treat him like he is currently a top 4 defender who can drive his pairing which he can't do yet.

 

[GoldiFox]

You are assuming fox is a sure nhler

He is not for many reasons

From the flames perspective, we have to wait for the signing but I am pretty sure BT will lock them up longer. Signing is his best attribute

I’m not assuming anything, I know very little about Fox outside of the WJC. What is for sure is that the Canes are very high on Fox and he was a key part of this deal for them. They think they have a decent shot at signing him and that would guarantee 5-7 RFA years depending on when he signed.

Calgary’s ability or willingness to sign Hanifin and Lindholm to long-term deals isn’t connected to the Canes ability or willingness to sign Hanifin and Lindholm to long-term deal. This point is easy to characterize as it is the exact point being made about Fox.

 

[DFF]

I’m not assuming anything, I know very little about Fox outside of the WJC. What is for sure is that the Canes are very high on Fox and he was a key part of this deal for them. They think they have a decent shot at signing him and that would guarantee 5-7 RFA years depending on when he signed.

Calgary’s ability or willingness to sign Hanifin and Lindholm to long-term deals isn’t connected to the Canes ability or willingness to sign Hanifin and Lindholm to long-term deal. This point is easy to characterize as it is the exact point being made about Fox.

Signing is only part of the problem. Fox is not a blue Chip some are claiming. He has some major if not fatal flaws in his game

 

[GoldiFox]

Signing is only part of the problem. Fox is not a blue Chip some are claiming.

That’s a fine opinion for you to have. The Canes think he is:

"We're really high on Adam Fox. He's a premier offensive defenseman at Harvard," Waddell said.

So my point isn’t really up for debate. I personally haven’t watched enough of Adam Fox to say, but I can assure you that the Canes have.

 

[Rubi]

Signing is only part of the problem. Fox is not a blue Chip some are claiming. He has some major if not fatal flaws in his game

From what I've heard, his major flaws are:

1. He's small.. but that doesn't seem to be of concern in todays game if you're mobile, defensively sound, and quick.

2. He's poor defensively... but that's something that can be fixed if the player is somewhat coachable. Whether he is or not he is something that will be determined in the future.... but its not like Fox is some 18 year old kid playing Jr hockey. At his age and experience he should have better defensive hockey basics.

3. He's slow... and I don't mean mentally. Tough to fix slow. The best you can expect is average, with lots of skating instruction.

 

[tarheelhockey]

From what I've heard, his major flaws are:

1. He's small.. but that doesn't seem to be of concern in todays game if you're mobile, defensively sound, and quick.

2. He's poor defensively... but that's something that can be fixed if the player is somewhat coachable. Whether he is or not he is something that will be determined in the future.... but its not like Fox is some 18 year old kid playing Jr hockey. At his age and experience he should have better defensive hockey basics.

3. He's slow... and I don't mean mentally. Tough to fix slow. The best you can expect is average, with lots of skating instruction.

Sounds a lot like Ryan Murphy who busted for us.

 

[super6646]

Both Ferland and Lindholm have been on absolute tears since joining their new teams. 6 pts in 6 games for Ferly, and 6 points in 5 games for Lindy. Hanifin currently has a point, but Hamilton is currently being used as the Hurricanes #5 in terms of ice-time (Hanifin is our #3) while putting up 2 extra points. Bit weird that the two more overlooked players are producing while Hanifin and Hamilton are either starting slow offensively or are pushed down the lineup, but a good trade for both teams so far.

 

[Lunatik]

I like that both sides seem to be happy with this deal thus far.

 

[DJJones]

Both Ferland and Lindholm have been on absolute tears since joining their new teams. 6 pts in 6 games for Ferly, and 6 points in 5 games for Lindy. Hanifin currently has a point, but Hamilton is currently being used as the Hurricanes #5 in terms of ice-time (Hanifin is our #3) while putting up 2 extra points. Bit weird that the two more overlooked players are producing while Hanifin and Hamilton are either starting slow offensively or are pushed down the lineup, but a good trade for both teams so far.

I don't think Flames fans really expected Hanifin to be huge this year. Hold down the fort while Brodano goes nuts and we are happy. Hamonic getting hurt threw a wrench in things but Hanifin has been solid with everyone he's been put with. I'm impressed, I expected more holes in his game actually.

Hanifin, Andersson, and Valimaki all playing and our defense not being a tire fire is exciting.

 

[FameFlame069]

Good deal, wish we could of got Bean lol

 

[super6646]

I don't think Flames fans really expected Hanifin to be huge this year. Hold down the fort while Brodano goes nuts and we are happy. Hamonic getting hurt threw a wrench in things but Hanifin has been solid with everyone he's been put with. I'm impressed, I expected more holes in his game actually.

Hanifin, Andersson, and Valimaki all playing and our defense not being a tire fire is exciting.

Hanifin has been getting shelled with defensive assignments though. The guy has gotten more defensive zone starts than Giordano, and only Frolik and Hamonic have been getting more d-zone starts than Hanifin (and one is healthy scratched while the other is injured).

Considering he's still getting over a 50% corsi while starting in the o-zone just 41% of the time is pretty impressive given his situation. I'd assume this is intentional on the part of the coach, but overall I've been impressed.

 

[Deen]

Fox is a diva throw in. I doubt he signs with anyone but the Rangers. The rest of the trade looks good on both sides though.

 

[Tkachuky]

I know it’s early but heck of a hockey trade.

 

[Volica]

I know it’s early but heck of a hockey trade.

I like when one of these works out for both teams:
Ferland 6 points in 6 games, playing with Aho and TT.
Lindholm 6 points in 5 games, playing with Johnny and Mony.

Dougie 3 points in 6 games, playing with Slavin and some PP time.
Hanifin 1 point in 5 games, playing with rooks as a shut down pair.

I'm happy things have looked great for both teams.

 

[ookhaab]

I like when one of these works out for both teams:
Ferland 6 points in 6 games, playing with Aho and TT.
Lindholm 6 points in 5 games, playing with Johnny and Mony.

Dougie 3 points in 6 games, playing with Slavin and some PP time.
Hanifin 1 point in 5 games, playing with rooks as a shut down pair.

I'm happy things have looked great for both teams.

Im just wondering why the f*** is Peters deploying Hanifin the opposite way he did in Carolina

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Im just wondering why the **** is Peters deploying Hanifin the opposite way he did in Carolina

Seems to be flourishing. I mean Gio-Brodie have been all sorts of dominant. And Hanifin is with Stone right now so he more worried about D than anything. He kinda reminds me of J-Boumeester.