Series Talk: CDSF: Nashville Predators vs Carolina Hurricanes

[Tysonson3]

I'm sorry but Saros has absolutely not earned the right to sit there and shit out 4 goals a night for 4 straight games when we have a veteran with a Vezina in his pocket, extensive playoff experience, and who was starting to play well the second half of the season as well, he just never got a chance to show it.

If Saros gives up 4 or more tomorrow and Hynes sends him back out there for game 3, then I'll be back in the "fire Hynes hes an idiot" camp.

Well sure if saros starts giving up 4+ soft ones a game then switch it up. But if he gets scored on 4 times from breakaways and undefended shots from the slot while we score 2 goals and go 0-whatever on the power play then it’s not on him that we’re losing. When you’re playing the top team in what is pretty much the top division, you put in the goalie that had a .940 save percentage over the last 3 months of the season and hope that our forwards and defence are good enough to get us maybe a few wins

 

[GoldOnGold]

I'm sorry but Saros has absolutely not earned the right to sit there and shit out 4 goals a night for 4 straight games when we have a veteran with a Vezina in his pocket, extensive playoff experience, and who was starting to play well the second half of the season as well, he just never got a chance to show it.

If Saros gives up 4 or more tomorrow and Hynes sends him back out there for game 3, then I'll be back in the "fire Hynes hes an idiot" camp.

He wasn't great, but he wasn't terribly awful. He was expected to give up 3 goals and gave up 4.

MoneyPuck.com

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Saros should be in the next game and quite frankly he’s earned the right to play the whole series. Some very poor defensive play is the main factor most of the goals against and he still made some absolutely huge saves throughout that game, such as literally seconds before the Nino goal. I’m expecting to see a lot of changes to the lineup throughout the series but a goalie change isn’t going to magically make our power play effective or allow us to make actual zone entries

This kind of thing is done all the time by teams that win a cup. Just look at some of the series the Preds have lost after chasing the starter early in the series. Then the starter winds up back in at some point and carries them to the cup.

I'm sorry but Saros has absolutely not earned the right to sit there and shit out 4 goals a night for 4 straight games when we have a veteran with a Vezina in his pocket, extensive playoff experience, and who was starting to play well the second half of the season as well, he just never got a chance to show it.

If Saros gives up 4 or more tomorrow and Hynes sends him back out there for game 3, then I'll be back in the "fire Hynes hes an idiot" camp.

I so very tired of the "goalie can't do anything wrong" mindset of this fanbase and the thought process that they can't be sat if they aren't playing up to snuff. Are they more worried about winning a series or having some fanciful loyalty to a single player that can single handedly f*** everyone else with shitty play?

 

[Tysonson3]

This kind of thing is done all the time by teams that win a cup. Just look at some of the series the Preds have lost after chasing the starter early in the series. Then the starter winds up back in at some point and carries them to the cup.


I so very tired of the "goalie can't do anything wrong" mindset of this fanbase and the thought process that they can't be sat if they aren't playing up to snuff. Are they more worried about winning a series or having some fanciful loyalty to a single player that can single handedly f*** everyone else with shitty play?

I wouldn’t put myself in the “the goalie can do no wrong” category. More so I feel that the loss would have happened whether it was saros or Rinne between the pipes. If saros comes out next game and is letting in weak ones early then yeah switch it up and play Rinne for maybe even the rest of the series. But until then I think playing saros is our best bet.

 

[Scoresberg]

Well, the outmuscling strategy backfired. Time for Plan B. Bring in Tolvanen for Olivier, split the top pair and bring in Fabbro or Benning for either Harpur or Gudbranson.

Question is, do you bench Duchene? I'd like to see Cousins in the mix, he seems like a guy who thrives in these kind of situations. Tolvanen probably brought in for the power-play. Short leash for the Granlund line.

 

[triggrman]

Duchene was better than Arvidsson, Jarnkrok or Olivier

 

[Scoresberg]

Duchene was better than Arvidsson, Jarnkrok or Olivier

Coaching staff doesn't seem to think so. But the fact is, we need Duchene at his best if we want to have success. Playing him 10 min a night on the 3rd line is not going to unleash his potential.

I'd keep him in the lineup and monitor the 2nd line's situation. If they have a bad game again, then I go back to Duchene as the 2C. Or promote the Haula-Duchene combination at least.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Let's get a GDT going early today.

 

[Osprey]

This kind of thing is done all the time by teams that win a cup. Just look at some of the series the Preds have lost after chasing the starter early in the series. Then the starter winds up back in at some point and carries them to the cup.

I was curious, so I looked it up.

2010: Niemi started every game
2011: Thomas started every game
2012: Quick started every game
2013: Crawford started every game
2014: Quick started every game
2015: Crawford started every game but 4 (all against the Preds)
2016: Murray started every game but 3
2017: Fleury started 14 games, Murray started 9 (including all against the Preds)
2018: Holtby started every game but 1
2019: Binnington started every game
2020: Vasilevskiy started every game

Only 3 times in the last 11 postseasons has a team started their backup, had it go well enough to give him a 2nd game and then gone on to win the Cup. That's not really a good stat for justifying changing the goaltender, IMO. The majority of the time, Cup winners either stick with the same goaltender, even after losses (including losses in which the starter was chased), or go right back to the original starter after one disappointing game with the backup.

In other words, there's more justification for sticking with Saros. That said, if Saros allows 4 goals again, I wouldn't be opposed to starting Rinne, regardless of what the Cup winner history recommends, since the Preds aren't close to that caliber of teams and need everything to go right just to get out of this 1st round.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Idk, 3 in the last 11 years that actually won the cup seems high to me. Kinda like winning the cup after winning the Presidents Trophy. It happens very seldom because there are 15 other teams out there that are trying do win it too.

So 3 times the starting goalie was shaky enough for the backup to come in and start at least one game. The coach wasn't afraid to do it and it worked. THAT is proof that it works, not that is doesn't work. How many of those other 8 goalies where in their first (real) playoff series with no track record? If they were, did they have games where they gave up soft goals?

This is a coaching choice that is based off of quality of goals given up. Saros gave up a horrible goal at a horrible time in the first game. When Saros is off he loses focus and gives up goals just like that. What does the coach do if there is another soft goal at such a crucial time?

 

[Predsanddead24]

The Capitals situation is fairly similar to what we are facing. Grubauer was very hot going into the playoffs that year and struggled starting the first two games before getting replaced by Holtby who had been the long time starter. I'm doubtful it would work that way but you never know. Anyways my hope is Saros balls out enough tonight we don't even need to discuss this anymore.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

The Capitals situation is fairly similar to what we are facing. Grubauer was very hot going into the playoffs that year and struggled starting the first two games before getting replaced by Holtby who had been the long time starter. I'm doubtful it would work that way but you never know. Anyways my hope is Saros balls out enough tonight we don't even need to discuss this anymore.

For sure want to see end of the year Saros and stop talking about it. If we do see beginning of the years Saros the coaches need to make the change though.

 

[Osprey]

Idk, 3 in the last 11 years that actually won the cup seems high to me. Kinda like winning the cup after winning the Presidents Trophy. It happens very seldom because there are 15 other teams out there that are trying do win it too.

So 3 times the starting goalie was shaky enough for the backup to come in and start at least one game. The coach wasn't afraid to do it and it worked. THAT is proof that it works, not that is doesn't work. How many of those other 8 goalies where in their first (real) playoff series with no track record? If they were, did they have games where they gave up soft goals?

I don't think that 3 times out of 11 is enough to say that changing the starting goaltender "is done all the time by teams that win a cup." That's what I was responding to. It's fine if you wish to change starting goaltenders--I even said that I might agree if Saros gives up 4 goals again--but the history of Cup winners isn't a good justification for doing it, IMO, because, more often than not, winners rode one goaltender the whole way.

 

[Loyal Legion]

Switching goalies in the playoffs is a strategy we have the benefit of having, but it’s not the cure if we can’t score.

In 2015, we did chase Crawford for Darling before Crawford finished us enroute to their cup but they also had Keith, Toews, and Kane in their prime.

I think it was 2008, we chased Hasek for Osgood. Detroit went on to win the cup with Osgood. But they had Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and Datsyk.

Either way, we have to score more and stop more.

I still give Saros the start and see this develop before deciding anything for Game 3

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I don't think that 3 times out of 11 is enough to say that changing the starting goaltender "is done all the time by teams that win a cup." That's what I was responding to. It's fine if you wish to change starting goaltenders--I even said that I might agree if Saros gives up 4 goals again--but the history of Cup winners isn't a good justification for doing it, IMO, because, more often than not, winners rode one goaltender the whole way.

I may have exaggerated a bit in my original statement but if you included finalists I bet you'd see a few more teams over that span.
Overall it seems we basically agree other than the quoted part being a bit exaggerated or hyperbolic.

 

[Osprey]

I may have exaggerated a bit in my original statement but if you included finalists I bet you'd see a few more teams over that span.
Overall it seems we basically agree other than the quoted part being a bit exaggerated or hyperbolic.

I probably should've given you a little more slack and let the exaggeration slide. I was just feeling bored and pedantic.

 

[LCPreds]

I'm just trying to keep my mindset as positive as possible: Not selling at the TDL and making the playoffs was worth it. Even if we get swept.

Seriously, on the bright(er) side, the boys played a good game tonight. It's just unfortunate they couldn't turn it into any goals as I seriously doubt Saros is stopping all of those high danger chances on Friday.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

I'm just trying to keep my mindset as positive as possible: Not selling at the TDL and making the playoffs was worth it. Even if we get swept.

Seriously, on the bright(er) side, the boys played a good game tonight. It's just unfortunate they couldn't turn it into any goals as I seriously doubt Saros is stopping all of those high danger chances on Friday.

Well said. And just like in the series against Dallas. Nothing from the PP. you aren’t going to win many playoff series with the piss poor PP we have right now. It’s deflating.

 

[Osprey]

I'm just trying to keep my mindset as positive as possible: Not selling at the TDL and making the playoffs was worth it. Even if we get swept.

I don't know. The turnaround was fun, but it saved Hynes' job. I think that I would've preferred Hynes being fired and the Preds getting a top-10 draft pick to getting swept and having Hynes for another year. Also, Poile could've been courting Gallant right now, but, instead, he'll likely be confident that the team will continue its play from last few months into next season and not feel pressure to make changes to the personnel, either.

 

[Tysonson3]

I don't know. The turnaround was fun, but it saved Hynes' job. I think that I would've preferred Hynes being fired and the Preds getting a top-10 draft pick to getting swept and having Hynes for another year. Also, Poile could've been courting Gallant right now, but, instead, he'll likely be confident that the team will continue its play from last few months into next season and not feel pressure to make changes to the personnel, either.

If we get swept I would imagine hynes job would be far from secure. Poile held at the deadline since the team was playing well and that was the right move I believe. Once we’re into the off-season I would expect to see some big moves both in the coaching department and roster

 

[Predsanddead24]

I don’t really have a problem with Hynes anymore. It’s pretty clear to me just don’t have the roster to compete with a team like Carolina. At the very least I think he’s actually a very good coach to have for a couple years while we try and retool.

 

[Aardvarksson]

Seb Aho is by far better than anyone on the Preds roster unfortunately

 

[Scoresberg]

Hynes is 2-9 in his career in the playoffs. Sooner or later, that will catch up to him.

 

[predwings]

Well certainly can't place any blame on Saros for the last two games. He's been stellar outside of 1 goal where he cheated a small bit. We're just being beat by superior talent and our own crushing ineptitude on the PP and in the offensive zone. Perhaps 2nd change will fix some things but this is playing out much like the season series did. We might steal a win or two but I seriously doubt we take this series even with Saros playing lights out.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Wasn't online last night so I'm not sure I even want to look at the GDT. Such a disappointing outcome for a game that was played so well defensively.

Unfortunately, offensive creativity and scoring can't be coached. Setting up a structure and putting players in the right positions can help but offense is about individual creativity and talent. Something this roster just doesn't have enough of.