CCHL Midget Draft

[OttawaDad]

It's quite funny. I think you said on one of the early threads that you had no firm position either way. Yet you've stalked CCHLfan for a couple of months. Every time he posts, you're there. He's relentlessly, and ludicrously, positive. But Nohappy is relentlessly, and ludicrously, negative. Yet, you only have an issue with one of them. Let it go. It's starting to look personal and a little silly. This is a bipolar debate. The positions are entrenched. The people on this board won't decide the success of failure of U18. FWIW, I'm mostly in the "no" camp, but I'll let my kid play again and see where we go.

Perhaps you are right and it's gotten to much, I have no doubt that I am a passionate person who wants to see my friends kids succeed in hockey. This forum started as an opportunity to learn more, both positive and negative about this new league, but it was quickly shown that we where not allowed to post negative thoughts and constructive feedback, CCHLfan was always there saying 'no, parents love it' or 'your wrong'. It was equally frustrating learning of his background and history in the league. Id love this to be a simple place where people can have constructive discussion about both sides, but that's simply not the case.

I came into this with an incredibly open mind, I think its a crime that some CCHL teams seem more interested in rostering out of town kids vs local ones. We cry and complain when outside programs don't recognize our talent (see OHL teams not drafting Ottawa kids as high), yet our own Jr A league ignores them as well. If this stops that practice, sign me up. I wasn't, and know many parents who where not informed about this until the project was launched, and there's no doubt that was stratigic, but at the same time that doesn't make it a bad one, but it does raise red flags about motivaition and what's being hidden (if anything). This should be a place where we can have those conversations, but as Ive mentioned, that doesn't happen, which isn't fair.

Im lucky in the fact that I work in both Toronto and Ottawa, family has roots in both places so can move without many issues, if this doesn't work its not that difficult to set up shop elsewhere, but most if not all of my friends do not have that luxury, so I want to be sure that this program is isntilled for the right reasons. Again, we're not really allowed to explore that.

If it was just me, then Id yield your point and stop, but its not, there's alot of us, be it agents or parents who have issues with him, its not just one of us. He'll claim to be impartial, yet whenever he's given an opportunity to correct or go after a CCHL poster (see Jason yesterday) he'll ignore it and go after us. Thats not impartial. Perhaps you, a rational and sane poster suggesting that he is indeed 'He's relentlessly, and ludicrously, positive (ludicrously is a great word), he'll see he goes over the line, but to this point I'm not holding my breath.

As you and others have posted many times, what's posted on here has zero, nill, nada impact on this program. There are easy metrics to look at and see if it works. If more Ottawa players are on teams like Carleton Place, fantastic, its working. So the need to police comments and ensure that everyone is only saying positive things about the CCHL is silly, or as you said, ludicrous.

Id love to see it change, I just don't think that can happen with everyone's current mindset.

 

[BigBuck]

Wow haven't come on here for awhile and wow.
1. Who cares if they draft 14 and 15 year olds. It's a nice resume piece and if the kids don't progress they don't make the team. End of story. Same premise goes for any other kid drafted in any other league, Jr. A USHL, OHL WHL, NHL.
2. The drafted players now go into that teams program, again IF GOOD ENOUGH, and it gives both the player and team MORE insight to the player and PARENTS! Great tool.
3. If you don't like the CCHL, tell them prior to the draft. Your kid won;t get drafted and then you can go where you want. OR if you aren't happy with the team that drafted you that;s OK too, they only hold your rights in the CCHL, go wherever else you'd like. As previously stated if they don't play AAA or aren't signed by 18 they are free agents.
4. Again, CCHL is pay to play if you are good you will likely pay less....guess what... NCAA does the same thing!
5. If your kid is good you have no worries so this leads me to believe all the nay sayers on here are crying about the system because your kid may not make it. Boo Hoo.

So you think it is ok to draft 14 and 15 year old kids for the U18 league? How many Midget leagues in Canada have a draft of major Bantam kids? You do realize that these drafted kids can only AP with CCHL teams .....

 

[hawkeye guy]

So you think it is ok to draft 14 and 15 year old kids for the U18 league? How many Midget leagues in Canada have a draft of major Bantam kids? You do realize that these drafted kids can only AP with CCHL teams .....

I am fully aware and I don't see an issue with it. They are getting exposed to the Jr. A Team and a chance to AP to Jr. What's wrong with that? I'd like to know? Plus when the OHL draft comes around they have that feather in their cap for them to look at or see who much did they progress....say an 8th rounder a year later is now a top scorer or close to a point a game. I see no issue. Tell me yours.
And who cares about the rest of the country, maybe it means HEO is doing something better or not afraid to think outside the box. WHL drafts 14/15 year olds, rant about that. Are they worn too?

 

[valleydude]

I am fully aware and I don't see an issue with it. They are getting exposed to the Jr. A Team and a chance to AP to Jr. What's wrong with that? I'd like to know? Plus when the OHL draft comes around they have that feather in their cap for them to look at or see who much did they progress....say an 8th rounder a year later is now a top scorer or close to a point a game. I see no issue. Tell me yours.
And who cares about the rest of the country, maybe it means HEO is doing something better or not afraid to think outside the box. WHL drafts 14/15 year olds, rant about that. Are they worn too?

What about the size of the draft. At 200+ players selected now per age group for 12 teams, is that OK ? The WHL has 22 teams and selects in the same range.

Let's check back in 5 years and see how many of the 2001's drafted this year get more than 50 games in the CCHL.

 

[hawkeye guy]

What about the size of the draft. At 200+ players selected now per age group for 12 teams, is that OK ? The WHL has 22 teams and selects in the same range.

Let's check back in 5 years and see how many of the 2001's drafted this year get more than 50 games in the CCHL.

For the 2001's 10 rds is OK. It's the Midget draft that should be cut back in my opinion I think at the start of the Bantam draft have 3 Midget Protects and no Midget draft would make sense. 36 top missed or improved players each year get a token and should automatically get placed on the AAA team.
You can still have Free Agent tryouts after that.

 

[Easternfan]

For the 2001's 10 rds is OK. It's the Midget draft that should be cut back in my opinion I think at the start of the Bantam draft have 3 Midget Protects and no Midget draft would make sense. 36 top missed or improved players each year get a token and should automatically get placed on the AAA team.
You can still have Free Agent tryouts after that.

Players should only be eligible for draft two years like OHL then free agents after that. I believe in that second year is enough to find players that developed a little later and then make it to CCHL. Three 1998s that were not drafted first year and selected second year that played CCHL this past season are Peter Brooks from Kemptville, Sebastian Dirven from Cornwall and rookie of the year Charles Levesque from Hawkesbury. There are 1997s as well and probably will be some each year. This fall we will see what happens with 1999s.

Draft may change in future as we are still in transition to new format of having u18. HEO had a free agent camp in August, did any kids get picked from there and make a u18 team last winter?

 

[Bossman]

I honestly think for the amount of the money parents are paying they should get to pick the program they want their kid to play for. The draft is a sense of accomplishment for the kids but also leads them to disappointment later on. Some teams run a great program and other do the minimum which sucks for a 14 year old being drafted by a weaker team.

 

[Easternfan]

I honestly think for the amount of the money parents are paying they should get to pick the program they want their kid to play for. The draft is a sense of accomplishment for the kids but also leads them to disappointment later on. Some teams run a great program and other do the minimum which sucks for a 14 year old being drafted by a weaker team.

HEO did not enforce anything to teams that make sure things were being done right. You know HEO board members are not there for parents and players because a budget has never been released even though many asked. If all teams were run like Kemptville last season, this would be a great league and notice they do not have a team for CDHL. Owners, staff and players are taking a much needed rest so they are hungry all next winter and time to get some proper off ice training in. There are other teams as well that were well run but definitely teams where players were not in a good atmosphere. A few kids I know are trying to go prep school for next season. One was already mentioned on Twitter so not a rumour.

Bossman, you do have a choice but unfortunately many are not local.

 

[Stittsvillain]

Can someone explain the 30 man list to me?

 

[hky01]

Hawkeye Guy, point 4, I never thought of it that way and actually the CHL does same thing also, the better you are the better education package you get offered.

Great post Kevin

So does the NCAA for that matter, or any other aspect of life. The better you are the more someone will want you to be there. Don't just attack the CHL on every point.

 

[cchltier1fan]

Great post Kevin

So does the NCAA for that matter, or any other aspect of life. The better you are the more someone will want you to be there. Don't just attack the CHL on every point.

LMAO, I am not who you think I am and I definitely would not want his job.

Also, not attacking CHL just stating what actually occurs in most cases and if you read post I responded to it said exactly what you said and I totally agree.

I do not care if players go NCAA or CHL, that is a personal decision of the player and family. Both are great places to end up in.

 

[OttawaDad]

Great post Kevin

So does the NCAA for that matter, or any other aspect of life. The better you are the more someone will want you to be there. Don't just attack the CHL on every point.

He's not Kevin but certainly a defender (perhaps an avenger ).

This is his way, he'll find a way to take a dig at one thing while promoting the CCHL. Anyone who calls him on it is in the way.

LMAO, I am not who you think I am and I definitely would not want his job.

Also, not attacking CHL just stating what actually occurs in most cases and if you read post I responded to it said exactly what you said and I totally agree.

I do not care if players go NCAA or CHL, that is a personal decision of the player and family. Both are great places to end up in.

Still nothing on my Jason Clarke question, you've ducked it a few times. I don't care at this point, a non answer is an answer, but ill be sure to remind everyone whenever I can

 

[No Skin in the Game]

The NCAA comparison is a good one. Many people don't realize a verbal offer or even a signed letter does not mean you will get into the school and if you do get in you might not get to play......I'm not talking Div 3 pay to play schools with financial aid packages either... There is talk in the NCAA about limiting the number of offers schools can make because top schools are locking in kids and they might not ever see game play in part to keep them from going to other schools. Or they string them along and oops, sorry you didn't meet admission requirements....

My bottom line is lets stop manufacturing "success" and let the game play out, the ones who are going to make it will make it but we don't need to fan the flames of every last round draft pick or letter of intent recipient and have them not move on in life when it is clear that, although they are talented hockey players, they will not play higher than Junior. And let me be clear, there is nothing wrong with that.

Hockey doesn't have to lead to anything for it to have been a valuable and amazing life experience. We should not measure the value that sport brings into someone's life only by going on to play at the highest levels. I know too many kids that have no plan B and take a very long time to move on with the next stage of their life when their dream does not come true.

 

[cchltier1fan]

The NCAA comparison is a good one. Many people don't realize a verbal offer or even a signed letter does not mean you will get into the school and if you do get in you might not get to play......I'm not talking Div 3 pay to play schools with financial aid packages either... There is talk in the NCAA about limiting the number of offers schools can make because top schools are locking in kids and they might not ever see game play in part to keep them from going to other schools. Or they string them along and oops, sorry you didn't meet admission requirements....

My bottom line is lets stop manufacturing "success" and let the game play out, the ones who are going to make it will make it but we don't need to fan the flames of every last round draft pick or letter of intent recipient and have them not move on in life when it is clear that, although they are talented hockey players, they will not play higher than Junior. And let me be clear, there is nothing wrong with that.

Hockey doesn't have to lead to anything for it to have been a valuable and amazing life experience. We should not measure the value that sport brings into someone's life only by going on to play at the highest levels. I know too many kids that have no plan B and take a very long time to move on with the next stage of their life when their dream does not come true.

It is like the old saying goes "there are no guarantees in life except death and taxes".

In the end it is up to each individual to make up their own mind on what they want to do in life. If someone wants to keep playing just because they love the game then all the more power to them, that is their right, it is not up to anyone else to stop them. If you are good enough to make it in the CHL or NCAA then that is great, go for it.

It is up to each individual/family to make sure they are informed and are realistic about their chances, but no matter what there will always be those that are not, and strangely enough some of those, that very few see as good enough, eventually make it. There are also a lot of players that everyone see as sure bets to get to NCAA or CHL that never do. As they say everyone's journey is different.

Hockey is a great game to play, just enjoy your time playing, in the end most players end up on the rink at 10:00pm in a men's league, even the guys that play pro hockey.

 

[No Skin in the Game]

It is like the old saying goes "there are no guarantees in life except death and taxes".

In the end it is up to each individual to make up their own mind on what they want to do in life. If someone wants to keep playing just because they love the game then all the more power to them, that is their right, it is not up to anyone else to stop them. If you are good enough to make it in the CHL or NCAA then that is great, go for it.

It is up to each individual/family to make sure they are informed and are realistic about their chances, but no matter what there will always be those that are not, and strangely enough some of those, that very few see as good enough, eventually make it. There are also a lot of players that everyone see as sure bets to get to NCAA or CHL that never do. As they say everyone's journey is different.

Hockey is a great game to play, just enjoy your time playing, in the end most players end up on the rink at 10:00pm in a men's league, even the guys that play pro hockey.

Its easy to say be informed and realistic but the system is set up to give people all kinds of false hope and to keep them writing cheques for one more tryout, one more camp, one more power skating coach.....when people are emotionally invested it is hard to take the blinders off. Its also easy to forget that these 14 and 15 year olds are just kids, why put the weight of all these expectations on them so early?

 

[cchltier1fan]

Its easy to say be informed and realistic but the system is set up to give people all kinds of false hope and to keep them writing cheques for one more tryout, one more camp, one more power skating coach.....when people are emotionally invested it is hard to take the blinders off. Its also easy to forget that these 14 and 15 year olds are just kids, why put the weight of all these expectations on them so early?

I get what you are saying but my perspective as a parent who went through this two times is that it was up to me to make sure my sons were realistic in their expectations. Honestly I think I spent way more on camps before they were drafted than after, they were attending camps of multiple teams instead of one. They did not have CDHL then but we used to go to 2 or 3 Spring AAA tournaments instead.

In fact I spent way more on summer AAA hockey, powerskating, 4 on 4 and camps when they we in Atom and Peewee than when they were Junior aged. It just seems to be the way it is now, unfortunately hockey costs a lot of money.

 

[valleydude]

I get what you are saying but my perspective as a parent who went through this two times is that it was up to me to make sure my sons were realistic in their expectations. Honestly I think I spent way more on camps before they were drafted than after, they were attending camps of multiple teams instead of one. They did not have CDHL then but we used to go to 2 or 3 Spring AAA tournaments instead.

In fact I spent way more on summer AAA hockey, powerskating, 4 on 4 and camps when they we in Atom and Peewee than when they were Junior aged. It just seems to be the way it is now, unfortunately hockey costs a lot of money.

That curve has shifted The cost from post Bantam onward have gone through the roof.

Between Jr A, B, U18 I would guess families who 10 years ago spent $3K after Bantam are now spending $30K.

 

[OttawaDad]

I get what you are saying but my perspective as a parent who went through this two times is that it was up to me to make sure my sons were realistic in their expectations. Honestly I think I spent way more on camps before they were drafted than after, they were attending camps of multiple teams instead of one. They did not have CDHL then but we used to go to 2 or 3 Spring AAA tournaments instead.

In fact I spent way more on summer AAA hockey, powerskating, 4 on 4 and camps when they we in Atom and Peewee than when they were Junior aged. It just seems to be the way it is now, unfortunately hockey costs a lot of money.

I have no idea what you spent for your kids summer hockey, but the cost of the development league and fees for the U18 league would be much higher then anything we are paying for hockey now.

Im getting quite a few funny private messages about you ignoring the Jason Clarke questions btw

 

[cchltier1fan]

I have no idea what you spent for your kids summer hockey, but the cost of the development league and fees for the U18 league would be much higher then anything we are paying for hockey now.

Im getting quite a few funny private messages about you ignoring the Jason Clarke questions btw

When you take into account away summer tournaments, powerskating, camps, 4 on 4 way too much for my two sons!!! Now if you want to see what expensive is all about try high level girls hockey, my daughter 10 years ago cost more than U18 now!!!

Probably just as funny as the PMs I have received about you

 

[OttawaDad]

When you take into account away summer tournaments, powerskating, camps, 4 on 4 way too much for my two sons!!! Now if you want to see what expensive is all about try high level girls hockey, my daughter 10 years ago cost more than U18 now!!!

Probably just as funny as the PMs I have received about you

Its not even close for me. Even with 2 summer tournaments it will be much more expensive when he hits 14/15.

Im sure you CCHL guys dont like guys asking questions, so don't doubt that at all

Any particular reason as to why you keep dodging it? The issue where you ripped me and gave Jason a pass despite us saying the same thing? I get it, you got caught, perhaps thats why you keep ignoring my questions about it?

 

[OttawaDad]

Its not even close for me. Even with 2 summer tournaments it will be much more expensive when he hits 14/15.

Im sure you CCHL guys dont like guys asking questions, so don't doubt that at all

Any particular reason as to why you keep dodging it? The issue where you ripped me and gave Jason a pass despite us saying the same thing? I get it, you got caught, perhaps thats why you keep ignoring my questions about it?

And nothing.....not unexpected

Perhaps we could call you CCHLavoidance? CCHLCrickets lol? Why so hard answering?

 

[OttawaDad]

Whats the question? Stopped reading all the BS whinning.....fire away

Nothing to do with you, CCHL friend seems to hold us to different standards is all, we both say the same things and he calls me names, (which also means he thinks the same about you by proxy), makes him a bit of a hypocrite. He realized what he did and has now clammed up (perhaps a bit embarrassed). His lack of explanation seems to confirm things. Was hoping he'd open up, but he's gone all 'avoidance', he may get a voice now that you're here thou .

Congrats on the win, good luck at the RBC, its ok to crack a smile

 

[cchltier1fan]

Nothing to do with you, CCHL friend seems to hold us to different standards is all, we both say the same things and he calls me names, (which also means he thinks the same about you by proxy), makes him a bit of a hypocrite. He realized what he did and has now clammed up (perhaps a bit embarrassed). His lack of explanation seems to confirm things. Was hoping he'd open up, but he's gone all 'avoidance', he may get a voice now that you're here thou .

Congrats on the win, good luck at the RBC, its ok to crack a smile

I am flattered that my stalker is so concerned (and I am not the only one to refer to you in that way) about my well being but I can not just sit on the computer waiting for you to reply. At least I get a good laugh reading your posts when I do log in.

I think you are still referring to that confusing incoherent group of postings you made that neither JC nor myself understood and in fact both commented on in the same way. Not sure where the hypocritical part occurred. My best guess is it has something to do with the the Bantam draft which I said I did not disagree with in the past (I am surprised you missed this since you are so obsessed with my posts), but now that there are Midget teams for CCHL teams to fill rosters of it makes sense.

Frankly, I am so confused by your rambling I am not sure what you are referring to anymore.

 

[OttawaDad]

I am flattered that my stalker is so concerned (and I am not the only one to refer to you in that way) about my well being but I can not just sit on the computer waiting for you to reply. At least I get a good laugh reading your posts when I do log in.

I think you are still referring to that confusing incoherent group of postings you made that neither JC nor myself understood and in fact both commented on in the same way. Not sure where the hypocritical part occurred. My best guess is it has something to do with the the Bantam draft which I said I did not disagree with in the past (I am surprised you missed this since you so obsessed with my posts), but now that there are Midget teams for CCHL teams to fill rosters of it makes sense.

Frankly, I am so confused by your rambling I am not sure what you are referring to anymore.

If you don't like it, don't post 'ridiculously positive' (love that) things. Myself and Jason both talked about the draft and its importance, he said it was the backbone of the league, I asked how could it be that way if Carlton Place doesn't roster many of the players they draft. You then ripped me, suggesting that it was too early to judge. If your going to rip me, rip Jason too, he said how important it was. But we both know why you wont do that, you don't rip on the CCHL or its members.

If you don't want me calling you out, don't say and do dumb things.

The amount of people calling you out for your biased ways continues to grow, just saying.

 

[cchltier1fan]

if you don't like it, don't post 'ridiculously positive' (love that) things. Myself and jason both talked about the draft and its importance, he said it was the backbone of the league, i asked how could it be that way if carlton place doesn't roster many of the players they draft. You then ripped me, suggesting that it was too early to judge. If your going to rip me, rip jason too, he said how important it was. But we both know why you wont do that, you don't rip on the cchl or its members.

If you don't want me calling you out, don't say and do dumb things.

The amount of people calling you out for your biased ways continues to grow, just saying.

lmao, there are tons of totally negative posters far more biased than me that you have never called out............if you actually read the majority of my posts they are correcting factual errors but you are so biased you can not see that