CCHL Midget Draft

[Clarke74]

Yesterday the CCHL commissioner tweeted about the USHL drafting CCHL players, tongue in cheek he was asking if the OHL, WHL and QMJHL could draft players across Major Junior leagues - which he knows they can't. I'm sure he felt that the USHL was poaching given they drafted 4 CCHL NCAA Div 1 commits, two of which are on the NHL central scouting list for the upcoming draft. Bottom line is CCHL players are free to pursue USHL opportunities and why not.....in the USHL they do not pay to play, don't pay billet fees, have their equipment provided and would play in arguably the best junior league while maintaining their NCAA eligibility.

The pay to play CCHL model now starts with the Major Bantam draft, elite level players will have others options (they've always had them), it will be interesting to see if this U18/CCHL2/CCHL model actually provides more opportunities for HEO players. Year one in terms of the OHL draft seems to be a wash, I'll be waiting to see how many U18 players crack a CCHL roster in the next two years of the pilot.

Andy Sturtz best player in country drafted in USHL....stayed in CP another year and paid.....

 

[Clarke74]

Oh yes...and Sturtz lead Penn State in scoring....didny play in ushl to do that

 

[BeenThere]

Oh yes...and Sturtz lead Penn State in scoring....didny play in ushl to do that

And how much did he really "pay" to play in his final year? We are not all so naive to believe that fees are standardized across all players and that teams don't provide certain breaks to retain top level talent. Before you come all unglued about that statement, I don't really disagree, it's your business and as you told us over and over, you'll run it the way you want..

All fun aside, it's clear that CP is the flagship franchise in the CCHL right now and has the ability to attract and retain top level talent, but it's also an anomaly. Whether you draft or buy your talent, it's still on you to perform and there's only one CCHL team still performing.

 

[OttawaDad]

In correct....Mhl and quebec jr in canada have draft....out west they have protect lists of 50 players...nahl in usa has draft....

Actually the MHL, Quebec Jr AAA and NAHL all have drafts with players rights going to teams a lot further away from players homes, for the Jr A level.

Amazing, its like you guys where reading from the same CCHL information booklet or something

Jason, we where talking about Midget and Bantam Drafts, not Jr Drafts.

 

[Clarke74]

Amazing, its like you guys where reading from the same CCHL information booklet or something

Jason, we where talking about Midget and Bantam Drafts, not Jr Drafts.

You have me confused??? Whl has a bantam draft....what draft are you talking about

 

[Clarke74]

And how much did he really "pay" to play in his final year? We are not all so naive to believe that fees are standardized across all players and that teams don't provide certain breaks to retain top level talent. Before you come all unglued about that statement, I don't really disagree, it's your business and as you told us over and over, you'll run it the way you want..

All fun aside, it's clear that CP is the flagship franchise in the CCHL right now and has the ability to attract and retain top level talent, but it's also an anomaly. Whether you draft or buy your talent, it's still on you to perform and there's only one CCHL team still performing.

Thats a crap statement.....lots of unreal programs in our leagur. Here at Fred Page our league is wsy better than the 3 we are playing from top to bottom. 3rd yesr here....so i just might....just might know how good our league is....best league in Canada....by far!!

 

[Clarke74]

And how much did he really "pay" to play in his final year? We are not all so naive to believe that fees are standardized across all players and that teams don't provide certain breaks to retain top level talent. Before you come all unglued about that statement, I don't really disagree, it's your business and as you told us over and over, you'll run it the way you want..

All fun aside, it's clear that CP is the flagship franchise in the CCHL right now and has the ability to attract and retain top level talent, but it's also an anomaly. Whether you draft or buy your talent, it's still on you to perform and there's only one CCHL team still performing.

Guys paying and not paying would create a good team environment.....you have zero idea about anything in my organization.....

 

[OttawaDad]

Here at Fred Page our league is wsy better than the 3 we are playing from top to bottom. 3rd yesr here....so i just might....just might know how good our league is....best league in Canada....by far!!

Good luck, hopefully you guys win.

You have me confused??? Whl has a bantam draft....what draft are you talking about

The WHL isn't Jr A, you should (and do) know that. You may put yourselves at that level, but Hockey Canada would argue that. If you guys want to offer scholarships to every player who plays for you, then perhaps we can talk then, but we both no that wont happen.

So back to the previous point, what Jr A (non CHL ) leagues draft the rights of 14 year olds?

 

[Clarke74]

Good luck, hopefully you guys win.



The WHL isn't Jr A, you should (and do) know that. You may put yourselves at that level, but Hockey Canada would argue that. If you guys want to offer scholarships to every player who plays for you, then perhaps we can talk then, but we both no that wont happen.

So back to the previous point, what Jr A (non CHL ) leagues draft the rights of 14 year olds?

None.....thats why we have most parity in any league across country....most stable league in country.....

 

[OttawaDad]

None.....thats why we have most parity in any league across country....most stable league in country.....

So your no longer confused? Good. Looking at your roster, I'm not sure that drafting 14/15 year olds is the key to your success, not many ever seem to make it on your roster.

One of your arguments for U18 was that 'everyone else had midget, no minor, we're aligning with the rest of Canada'. So one one hand, doing what 'everyone else' does it good, but on the other hand, its not? It has to be one of the other...

 

[cchltier1fan]

So your no longer confused? Good. Looking at your roster, I'm not sure that drafting 14/15 year olds is the key to your success, not many if any are on your roster.

One of your arguments for U18 was that 'everyone else had midget, no minor, we're aligning with the rest of Canada'. So one one hand, doing what 'everyone else' does it good, but on the other hand, its not? It has to be one of the other...

At least I was not the only one confused by your grammar.

I am not sure how you expect the alignment of the Midget program with CCHL teams to have resulted in any changes at Junior yet, it just completed the first season. It will take at least 2 or 3 years to show whether it results in more players in the CCHL.

 

[OttawaDad]

At least I was not the only one confused by your grammar.

I am not sure how you would have expect the alignment of the Midget program with CCHL teams to have resulted in any changes at Junior yet, it just completed the first season. It will take at least 2 or 3 years to show whether it results in more players in the CCHL.

Funny how you both used the exact same words when answering too, like I said, as if it was from a formal proposal or part of an internal discussion

And the CCHL has had a draft for quite some time. Check it out!

http://www.eliteprospects.com/draft_other2.php?type=CCHL Draft&year=2013

Pretty sure you would have known that being a 'scout fan', how can you suggest that you can't judge drafts when they are well over 2 years past.

If you are going to take that route of criticism, suggesting that its 'to early' to suggest how successful the draft it is, wouldn't you also hold Jason to the same criticism about his statement (suggesting the draft is the strength of the league) 'that's why we have most parity in any league across country'.

You can't say that I'm offside and say its to early to judge, while allowing Jason to say the history of the Draft is the strength of the league. You can't have it both ways, its one or the other...(we'll, I guess you can, but that says something)

 

[BeenThere]

Thats a crap statement.....lots of unreal programs in our leagur. Here at Fred Page our league is wsy better than the 3 we are playing from top to bottom. 3rd yesr here....so i just might....just might know how good our league is....best league in Canada....by far!!

That's a crap statement...."that CP is the flagship franchise in the CCHL" ....because it's the only statement I made...

But you stated that "our league is way better than the 3 we are playing right from top to bottom"...so Kanata and Gloucester are better than the three other teams in the Fred Page? C'mon, either show your opponents some respect or I now have to discount the other 50% of what you've posted!

Seriously though, all the best to CP, hope to see them represent at the RBC again.

 

[Bossman]

None.....thats why we have most parity in any league across country....most stable league in country.....

Parity. The same team has won the league 3 years in a row. Same awful teams at the bottom. Numerous sweeps in the playoffs. Parity is one thing this league could use.

 

[cchltier1fan]

If you are going to take that route of criticism, suggesting that its 'to early' to suggest how successful the draft it is, wouldn't you also hold Jason to the same criticism about his statement (suggesting the draft is the strength of the league) 'that's why we have most parity in any league across country'.

You might want to read what I actually said, not make stuff up. My comment did not refer to draft, it was:

" I am not sure how you would have expect the alignment of the Midget program with CCHL teams to have resulted in any changes at Junior yet, it just completed the first season. It will take at least 2 or 3 years to show whether it results in more players in the CCHL."

I never said that I believed in the Bantam draft before U18, I did not think it was necessary, in fact when I scouted I thought it was a annoying to have to scout players that were a minimum of 2 years away from playing for the team. But now that the CCHL is operating Midget for HEO it makes sense, the majority of these players now start playing for CCHL run team's the next season. Now the CCHL is directly responsible for developing the majority of the players they have on their protected lists.

Also, in response to your comment previously about players rights being held forever that is not true:
1) Those players that do not make a midget team get dropped off a team's list immediately
2) If a player not offered a Jr A spot by the start of the season they turn 18 they get dropped off lists
3) CCHL also has 30 man protect lists (where rostered Jr A and Jr B) players are, thus not all Midget players stay on protect lists once they move onto other types of hockey (23 of spots go to Jr A players).
4) The protect lists are only good for CCHL, players have right to move to other leagues.

 

[OttawaDad]

Also, in response to your comment previously about players rights being held forever that is not true:

You sure do know alot about the inter workings....

You might want to read what I actually said, not make stuff up. My comment did not refer to draft, it was:

" I am not sure how you would have expect the alignment of the Midget program with CCHL teams to have resulted in any changes at Junior yet, it just completed the first season. It will take at least 2 or 3 years to show whether it results in more players in the CCHL."

Your missing my point.

That was in response my comment that the players that HE HAS DRAFTED IN THE PAST (as in, before this year) are not on his roster. Jason quoted the draft as a reason for the depth of the CCHL, well using your logic, he couldn't have been talking about THIS YEAR, it was about PAST drafts, he can't get depth from a draft that is only 1 year old. You comment then has zero to do with our discussion. Again, if your correcting me regarding that, you should correct him too (not that I care, but it shows motivation). Im not saying you believed it or not, that's irrelevant, the discission was on previous players, be it from the 96,97 and 98 age groups not on his roster.

Me: 'I'm not sure that drafting 14/15 year olds is the key to your success, not many if any are on your roster.'

You (interjecting yourself into a conversation you where not a part of) 'you cant judge based on one year!

No one was, we where talking about his drafts of the past. What does this year's draft have to do anything?

 

[cchltier1fan]

Ottawadad:

LOL, you interject constantly, this is not a private conversation, I thought you said you were in high tech. FYI, that is what the whole concept of this site is, if you have something to say you can.

I have said I used to scout and that I still have friends in league, of course I know about that kind of stuff.

 

[OttawaDad]

Ottawadad:

LOL, you interject constantly, this is not a private conversation. FYI, that is what the whole concept of this site is, if you have something to say you can.

I have said I used to scout and that I still have friends in league, of course I know about that kind of stuff.

Do you understand my point? What did your comment have to do with ours?

 

[cchltier1fan]

Do you understand my point? What did your comment have to do with ours?

Yes I get it now, but your comments have rambled so much lately jumping thought to thought that I am not the only one you are confusing.

 

[OttawaDad]

Yes I get it now, but your comments have rambled so much lately jumping thought to thought that I am not the only one you are confusing.

Ill avoid the insult in response and just skip to the discussion, would appreciate if you did the same.

If that was your mindset (that we where only talking about a single year of drafting), I don't understand why you didn't correct Jason as well, if you where thinking we where talking about this past draft, and he commented that the draft (this past draft) is the reason for the depth within the league, you should have jumped on him as quick as you jumped on me (telling me that you can't judge anything on a single year), assuming that you are independent as you say? You chose to give him the pass and not me?

Its situations like these that make people question your motivation.

 

[InigoAtOttawa]

Ill avoid the insult in response and just skip to the discussion, would appreciate if you did the same.

If that was your mindset (that we where only talking about a single year of drafting), I don't understand why you didn't correct Jason as well, if you where thinking we where talking about this past draft, and he commented that the draft (this past draft) is the reason for the depth within the league, you should have jumped on him as quick as you jumped on me (telling me that you can't judge anything on a single year), assuming that you are independent as you say? You chose to give him the pass and not me?

Its situations like these that make people question your motivation.

It's quite funny. I think you said on one of the early threads that you had no firm position either way. Yet you've stalked CCHLfan for a couple of months. Every time he posts, you're there. He's relentlessly, and ludicrously, positive. But Nohappy is relentlessly, and ludicrously, negative. Yet, you only have an issue with one of them. Let it go. It's starting to look personal and a little silly. This is a bipolar debate. The positions are entrenched. The people on this board won't decide the success of failure of U18. FWIW, I'm mostly in the "no" camp, but I'll let my kid play again and see where we go.

 

[Tigers1992]

It's quite funny. I think you said on one of the early threads that you had no firm position either way. Yet you've stalked CCHLfan for a couple of months. Every time he posts, you're there. He's relentlessly, and ludicrously, positive. But Nohappy is relentlessly, and ludicrously, negative. Yet, you only have an issue with one of them. Let it go. It's starting to look personal and a little silly. This is a bipolar debate. The positions are entrenched. The people on this board won't decide the success of failure of U18. FWIW, I'm mostly in the "no" camp, but I'll let my kid play again and see where we go.

I bowed out of here a bit ago, check it infrequently. I agree with alot of what you post, but CCHLTierfan is another breed. Ive been on here for 8 years or so, and I've never seen a guy try to control a conversation, tell others how to post and act like a censor like him. I believe a lot of the push back he gets is due to that, there's more then one guy whose pushing back. Some are relentlessly and ludicrously negative, but they are open and we all know why, but they don't try to tell people how to post. They are also fairly open about their background, while I had to search back and find CCHLfan's connection to alot of the owners, he wasn't open about it.

End of the day your 100 percent correct, nothing posted on here will have any effect on the U18 model, so the need for someone to tell others how to post and direct the conversation is, as you said, silly. If parents want to talk, whats wrong with talking? They obviously feel that some questions are not being answered as quickly as they liked, they where never consulted, i don't blame them for wanting a place to work things out. I don't think they are allowed to right now, someone constantly is on here attempting to tell them how wrong they are. He shouldn't attempt to censor, its just a message board that has zero effect, as you said.

 

[BackBringCam]

Tigers, I MUST respectfully disagree....lol

Eddy Shack by far like to tell everyone how to post, and immediately resulted to insults when an opinion, didn't match his.

In all seriousness though it is RIP to him and best wishes to his family.

 

[hawkeye guy]

Wow haven't come on here for awhile and wow.
1. Who cares if they draft 14 and 15 year olds. It's a nice resume piece and if the kids don't progress they don't make the team. End of story. Same premise goes for any other kid drafted in any other league, Jr. A USHL, OHL WHL, NHL.
2. The drafted players now go into that teams program, again IF GOOD ENOUGH, and it gives both the player and team MORE insight to the player and PARENTS! Great tool.
3. If you don't like the CCHL, tell them prior to the draft. Your kid won;t get drafted and then you can go where you want. OR if you aren't happy with the team that drafted you that;s OK too, they only hold your rights in the CCHL, go wherever else you'd like. As previously stated if they don't play AAA or aren't signed by 18 they are free agents.
4. Again, CCHL is pay to play if you are good you will likely pay less....guess what... NCAA does the same thing!
5. If your kid is good you have no worries so this leads me to believe all the nay sayers on here are crying about the system because your kid may not make it. Boo Hoo.

 

[cchltier1fan]

Wow haven't come on here for awhile and wow.
1. Who cares if they draft 14 and 15 year olds. It's a nice resume piece and if the kids don't progress they don't make the team. End of story. Same premise goes for any other kid drafted in any other league, Jr. A USHL, OHL WHL, NHL.
2. The drafted players now go into that teams program, again IF GOOD ENOUGH, and it gives both the player and team MORE insight to the player and PARENTS! Great tool.
3. If you don't like the CCHL, tell them prior to the draft. Your kid won;t get drafted and then you can go where you want. OR if you aren't happy with the team that drafted you that;s OK too, they only hold your rights in the CCHL, go wherever else you'd like. As previously stated if they don't play AAA or aren't signed by 18 they are free agents.
4. Again, CCHL is pay to play if you are good you will likely pay less....guess what... NCAA does the same thing!
5. If your kid is good you have no worries so this leads me to believe all the nay sayers on here are crying about the system because your kid may not make it. Boo Hoo.

Hawkeye Guy, point 4, I never thought of it that way and actually the CHL does same thing also, the better you are the better education package you get offered.