Confirmed with Link: Casey Mittelstadt (2017, 8th) - Signed, #37

[CatsforReinhart]

I flip flop on the idea myself. Normally I don't buy into the slow cooking method for this team as it lacks depth at many positions so playing time shouldn't be an issue but at the Center position it might be an exception to the rule for me. We have Eichel and ROR already down the middle and I'm not sure I like the idea of Mittelstadt playing 12 minutes a night on the 3rd line with how high I think his ceiling is...even though he would obviously make this team better and more enjoyable to watch.

However if they end up wanting him at wing then of course he should be up with the team next season, we have 0 winger depth, so there is no problem with him being in the top 6.

Maybe Mitts can replace ROR as the #2 Center eventually but that's a year away at least. If Mitts at Center is the way they want to go then I think ROR is traded while he still holds value after next season.

Casey playing the 3rd line center next year is not the problem. The problem is when ERod and Pommers are his wingers.

 

[Kyndig]

Casey playing the 3rd line center next year is not the problem. The problem is when ERod and Pommers are his wingers.

You think development wise him playing 12 minutes in the NHL is better than him playing around 20 in the AHL for one year? Erod is the least of this teams problems at wing, in fact hes arguably 2nd best winger on this team right now.

 

[Djp]

I flip flop on the idea myself. Normally I don't buy into the re vvkl,5 5slow cooking method for this team as it lacks depth at many positions so playing time shouldn't be an issue but at the Center position it might be an exception to the rule for me. We have Eichel and ROR already down the middle and I'm not sure I like the idea of Mittelstadt playing 12 minutes a night on the 3rd line with how high I think his ceiling is...even though he would obviously make this team better and more enjoyable to watch.

However if they end up wanting him at wing then of course he should be up with the team next season, we have 0 winger depth, so there is no problem with him being in the top 6.

Maybe Mitts can replace ROR as the #2 Center eventually but that's a year away at least. If Mitts at Center is the way they want to go then I think ROR is traded while he still holds value after next season.

I could see your final comment potential happening eitber next summer or in 2020 prior to expansion draft.

In general....

I see him being part of the sabres next season. Only wayin Rochester is if he has a slow start.

He will be part of the PP...will it be part of 1or 2.

 

[old kummelweck]

Not saying Erod is the right winger for Casey, but jesus, give the line some time.

Pominville should be a 13th forward next season if the depth works out.

 

[OkimLom]

I would rather have Casey get used to the league via being a winger on this team for the time being. We complain about the lack of talented wingers to use with guys like Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR, and we have a young player in Casey that can play wing, and an opportunity to develop along slowly(that's Bott's MO, right?) and we stick him right away playing center? I'm not a fan of that decision right now. It's very apparent he has the skills to play, I don't doubt that, but he's completely lost in the defensive zone, and right now, is the time to take that development time properly and patiently. Let him get up to speed and get some confidence playing with ROR and Eichel on the wing.

This team is very infuriating to watch when it comes to developing and having patience. It's been this way since Darcy decided to rebuild this team.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

I would rather have Casey get used to the league via being a winger on this team for the time being. We complain about the lack of talented wingers to use with guys like Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR, and we have a young player in Casey that can play wing, and an opportunity to develop along slowly(that's Bott's MO, right?) and we stick him right away playing center? I'm not a fan of that decision right now. It's very apparent he has the skills to play, I don't doubt that, but he's completely lost in the defensive zone, and right now, is the time to take that development time properly and patiently. Let him get up to speed and get some confidence playing with ROR and Eichel on the wing.

This team is very infuriating to watch when it comes to developing and having patience. It's been this way since Darcy decided to rebuild this team.

I think if you watch the tea leaves you slowly see that the influx of youth is coming along. However, I do agree that it is frustrating that it is year 7 of a 4 year rebuild plan. This isn't necessarily Botterill's fault as he inherited what he was given. The plot line should be to find the right fits for $$ in UFA and then to continue to bridge the gap to get out from under the dead weight. Unless he takes (Jame's) approach and just simply buys out: Bogosian, Pominville, Beaulieu. (Which could be warranted.) I'm okay keeping Pominville around next season as an extra / depth piece and let him go on his own terms then.

 

[OkimLom]

I think if you watch the tea leaves you slowly see that the influx of youth is coming along. However, I do agree that it is frustrating that it is year 7 of a 4 year rebuild plan. This isn't necessarily Botterill's fault as he inherited what he was given. The plot line should be to find the right fits for $$ in UFA and then to continue to bridge the gap to get out from under the dead weight. Unless he takes (Jame's) approach and just simply buys out: Bogosian, Pominville, Beaulieu. (Which could be warranted.) I'm okay keeping Pominville around next season as an extra / depth piece and let him go on his own terms then.

I'm not talking about the roster. I'm talking player development. Specifically, Mittelstadt's. There is a history of development of future centers starting their careers on the wing. Botterill is about developing players slowly and properly. That was a big key at the time of their hiring. Hopefully they follow through. This is a good test for them. We have seen Casey is behind in the defensive game playing center(at this point in Casey's career, there's nothing wrong with that). Let's see some adaptability from the coaching staff to address this, and not a thought process of "he'll work himself out of this".

 

[Kyndig]

I would rather have Casey get used to the league via being a winger on this team for the time being. We complain about the lack of talented wingers to use with guys like Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR, and we have a young player in Casey that can play wing, and an opportunity to develop along slowly(that's Bott's MO, right?) and we stick him right away playing center? I'm not a fan of that decision right now. It's very apparent he has the skills to play, I don't doubt that, but he's completely lost in the defensive zone, and right now, is the time to take that development time properly and patiently. Let him get up to speed and get some confidence playing with ROR and Eichel on the wing.

This team is very infuriating to watch when it comes to developing and having patience. It's been this way since Darcy decided to rebuild this team.

The issue hasn't been rushing players into the NHL. It's the fact those players aren't any good and the team hasn't been drafting well especially beyond round 1. Who exactly was rushed?

2016 Nylander has only played 4 games for the Sabres.

2015 Eichel gets better every single season, hard to say someone like him was rushed as hes one of the best players in the NHL.

2014 Reinhart played a year in the juniors before playing next season with Eichel and ROR.

2013 Risto played half a season in the AHL. He's had his ups and downs but hes always getting top NHL minutes. I think his problem is we've never had a good vet with him.

2012 Girgensons/Grigorenko. Girgensons has turned out ok, nothing special but it was a weak draft year. Grigorenko may have been rushed but he just turned out not to be very good anyways.

2011 Armia only played 1 NHL game in all the years we had him.

2010 Pysyk played 135 games in the AHL over his time here.

2009 Kassian wasn't very good and we traded him almost right away for Hodgson which his career ended because of health issues.

2008 Myers/Ennis. Ennis played a year in Juniors followed by a year in the AHL before we called him up. Ennis was a pretty good player given he was drafted late in the 1st round. Myers played a year in the juniors and won the Calder in the year he was called up and followed it with another good year..can't really say he was rushed either.

2007 no 1st and no real amazing picks

2006 Persson bust

2005 Zagrapan bust

Olofsson has never played in the AHL or NHL and hes 22

Next year will be the first year for Bailey and Baptiste potentially and they will both be 23.

Ullmark is 24 and still hasn't had a real shot despite being better than Lehner and TheChad from what we've seen so far.

Smith is 24 and has only played 2 NHL games and he looked good as far as I remember.

If anything I'd say we've let some of them develop too long when in today's NHL players are joining the team at younger ages.

 

[OkimLom]

The issue hasn't been rushing players into the NHL. It's the fact those players aren't any good and the team hasn't been drafting well especially beyond round 1. Who exactly was rushed?

2016 Nylander has only played 4 games for the Sabres.

2015 Eichel gets better every single season, hard to say someone like him was rushed as hes one of the best players in the NHL.

2014 Reinhart played a year in the juniors before playing next season with Eichel and ROR.

2013 Risto played half a season in the AHL. He's had his ups and downs but hes always getting top NHL minutes. I think his problem is we've never had a good vet with him.

2012 Girgensons/Grigorenko. Girgensons has turned out ok, nothing special but it was a weak draft year. Grigorenko may have been rushed but he just turned out not to be very good anyways.

It's not just about rushing guys TO the NHL. It's rushing guys into roles they are not ready for even in the NHL. Risto, is one of these. Girgs not being developed in the AHL longer is a crime. He's the perfect example of a guy who should've learned a professional system and allowed to develop slowly. He could've been so much more. Instead, we get two years where he showed offensive skill, and then THE moment he asked to play a more structured system he becomes lost in all 3 zones. Grigorenko's case is an example of someone that was handled so badly by management with indecision and poor judgement calls. Zadorov, same thing. Buffalo management had no clue where they wanted him developed.

Risto, probably should've been given heavy minutes starting last season or this season. His inconsistent play in his own zone has really brought down his game, and the task to do all situations because your team doesn't have anybody else of quality falls on management, but this is also part of the development of players. Making sure you have guys who can fills roles until the young guys are ready to dethrone them.

Risto's first full year he was playing 20+ minutes behind Myers (who also was thrusted into top minutes 22+ minutes his rookie year). After Myers was moved Risto has played the most minutes of the guys(his 2nd and 3rd years). Each year(25+ minutes each year) he has been getting increasing minutes, and last year he showed signs of his quality of play slipping the more he played. This is a failure on management's job to not find guys that can take a share of the load.

Reinhart and Eichel were probably handled okay-good. I think the Sabres lack of quality wingers led to a poor showing this year at center. That's on management to get that in order. My issue with Reinhart's handling is more of personal preference, but other than that, yes they were handled fine.

Nylander should've done one more year in Juniors. He was physically not ready for the AHL, and seemed to not have the confidence to play through the more physical play. That's completely on Murray. Confidence is a HUGE key for some of these skillful players that don't rely on playing the physical game. If they don't have that, they are more often useless.

Players don't stop developing once they make an NHL roster. Throwing guys into the fire right away, especially after spending only one year in the league they just came from may give you a short burst of success, but there is a large risk you're going to affect their long term development result.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Zadorov, same thing. Buffalo management had no choice where they wanted him developed.

FTFY

 

[Team Cozens]

We aren't there yet, but the Big 3 discussion will heat up next year between
Eichel, Reinhart, Mittelstadt vs. Matthews, Nylander, Marner.

A. Nylander and Svetch could give us the Big 5.

I for one like the Sabres 3 more (long term). Essentially we have 3 centers and
centers always hold more value over wingers.
Eichel is starting to dominate, Reinhart that last 35 games has been PPG and
Mitts is #1 prospect by THN for a reason.

To be continued......

 

[sabrebuild]

You think development wise him playing 12 minutes in the NHL is better than him playing around 20 in the AHL for one year? Erod is the least of this teams problems at wing, in fact hes arguably 2nd best winger on this team right now.

What 3C in the league plays 12 minutes??

 

[Djp]

What 3C in the league plays 12 minutes??

Not many...I think in terms of ES time, if there is 12 min of PP/PK time thus 48m of ES then divide by 4 you get 12 for 4 lines. natutally 4 line plays maybe every 2 or 3 line cycles.

logic of where the number is coming from---not the number itself.

as 3C Mittlestadt would play something like 14 min ES and 3 on PP

 

[haseoke39]

What 3C in the league plays 12 minutes??

Well, when Eichel averages >20min, and ROR averages >20 min, 12 minutes for your 3C seems reasonable.

 

[Djp]

I think if you watch the tea leaves you slowly see that the influx of youth is coming along. However, I do agree that it is frustrating that it is year 7 of a 4 year rebuild plan. This isn't necessarily Botterill's fault as he inherited what he was given. The plot line should be to find the right fits for $$ in UFA and then to continue to bridge the gap to get out from under the dead weight. .

12/13 they weren't sure yet about rebuilding till their season went on then traded Pominville.

13/14 and 14/15 were intentional tank years

15/16-16/17 tried to be competitive in a 3 year plan but it didn't work out as planned.

17/18--new gm wants to evaluate the system and then decide what to do thus fills roster and keeps players in the AL.

2nd round or later picks tend to not be a factor with the parent club until year 5 after draft at the earliest.

 

[joshjull]

What 3C in the league plays 12 minutes??

Are we talking just ES? Or overall?

 

[Kyndig]

What 3C in the league plays 12 minutes??

Mittelstadt played 12:53 in his first game and 13:59 in his second game. Eichel and ROR usually eat up 40+ minutes. Mittelstadt isn't going to get much powerplay time or any PK time so his minutes will be less than most 3C's based on all of the above.

 

[joshjull]

I would rather have Casey get used to the league via being a winger on this team for the time being. We complain about the lack of talented wingers to use with guys like Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR, and we have a young player in Casey that can play wing, and an opportunity to develop along slowly(that's Bott's MO, right?) and we stick him right away playing center? I'm not a fan of that decision right now. It's very apparent he has the skills to play, I don't doubt that, but he's completely lost in the defensive zone, and right now, is the time to take that development time properly and patiently. Let him get up to speed and get some confidence playing with ROR and Eichel on the wing.

This team is very infuriating to watch when it comes to developing and having patience. It's been this way since Darcy decided to rebuild this team.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting him at center. You can disagree and think wing is the better move. But that doesn’t equate to center being a mistake.

 

[sincerity0]

Not sure I get the whole “Mittelstadt should start on wing argument”. I’m sure he was drafted to play C in the NHL. Based off Botterills comments about setting up CM for success in October, I’m not surprised management is giving him an opportunity at center. If he looks overwhelmed they can always move him to wing. The first two games CM looked good offensively and was out of position a few times on D.

It’s definitely “a situation where” (-Botts) they wanna see how he handles the game. If CM looks like he needs more time on the wing then he can move to the wing.

Both regimes have seemed to neglect Reinharts development at C, assumed to be because of a lack of winger depth to do so. Putting CM at C for 6 games over Reinhart does nothing to change that.

Maybe they think Cm Is better suited to play C in the NHL over Sam due to skating. We don’t know, but there shouldn’t be an issue with Cm Starting at C. It’s not like he looks completely out of place.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Keep him at center. With Casey in the mix, that's means we have our top 6 center duo in place for 8+ years. That allows for so much flexibility for the rest of the roster (moving Reinhart to wing/trade, possibly move RoR for a top D etc)


If he is healthy all year next season I think something like 10-15 goals and 25-30 assists is reasonable. 35-40 points.

 

[sabrebuild]

Are we talking just ES? Or overall?

Not sure, the post I asked didn’t make clear. I would assume that would be close es wise, but mittlestadt would definitely get P.O. time next year. Potentially first unit over Okposo depending on how he comes in.

 

[sabrebuild]

Mittelstadt played 12:53 in his first game and 13:59 in his second game. Eichel and ROR usually eat up 40+ minutes. Mittelstadt isn't going to get much powerplay time or any PK time so his minutes will be less than most 3C's based on all of the above.

So a minute and two minutes more than you indicated for next year, in his first cup of coffee??

Idk, but I suspect if mitts makes the team next year as the third line center, that 4th line is getting shorted till they show an ability to win matchups. And the third line with pp gets mitts to 15 minutes regularly.

And 15 minutes regularly in the nhl is tempting. I think I’d rather have him in the ahl for talent disparity more than ice time.

 

[Kyndig]

So a minute and two minutes more than you indicated for next year, in his first cup of coffee??

Idk, but I suspect if mitts makes the team next year as the third line center, that 4th line is getting shorted till they show an ability to win matchups. And the third line with pp gets mitts to 15 minutes regularly.

And 15 minutes regularly in the nhl is tempting. I think I’d rather have him in the ahl for talent disparity more than ice time.

Yeah I read something somewhere a few minutes ago that Housley plans to up his playtime from 12-13 minutes (think it was in the Eichel, might not go to the World Championship post in the Eichel thread). I'd assume it's the 4th line that takes the hit or at least I hope so.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

You think development wise him playing 12 minutes in the NHL is better than him playing around 20 in the AHL for one year? Erod is the least of this teams problems at wing, in fact hes arguably 2nd best winger on this team right now.

What 3rd line center gets 12 minutes? Plus PP time. That is just a ridiculous thing to say.

On a side not how many minutes did Roy get with Vanek and Pommers?