Player Discussion Casey Mittelstadt (2017, 8th) - Signed, #37 - Part II

[debaser66]

I think he just needs to develop physically ...lose the baby fat and put some muscle on and things will fall into place

Like Kessel?

 

[Beerz]

Like Kessel?

Kessel still has his baby fat

 

[debaser66]

Delete

 

[tsujimoto74]

Kessel still has his baby fat

I think that's hotdog fat.

 

[debaser66]

I think that's hotdog fat.

He is a quick tho ;-)

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I don't think a 1st for a rental center makes sense for this team at this time.

If Friedman is right and Botts will only move a 1st for a younger player, that would seem to preclude a move like that.

Even before the Eichel injury, I didn't think this was the season to pay for a pricey rental. Even with the newfound cap space due to the Berglund situation, I think that the better idea is to reinforce the core for the medium term and not just look to shop for this season.

For instance, could they get Stepan out of Arizona for a 1st? If not, what would that take?

See - i don't believe the answer lies with either an 'expensive' rental or a highly valued young player. Neither make sense to me for reasons already listed.

I'd target a guy like Tyler Bozak - he's on the right type of deal & would imagine it would cost little to acquire a player like him in a trade.

I have no problem giving up R1 picks if it is for the long term good of the team. EG to get a long term partner for Dahlin. But for a short term stopgap or to fill a role I believe is already filled long term? No.

 

[1972]

I’m honestly going to say I was wrong about Casey to this point, I would have argued he’d have been a lock for 45 points this year in August. But, from the time he showed up for the rookie tournament right through to now his game hasn’t been near as good as it should have been. Botterill really needs to get in his head that he needs to up the effort level and train to be a professional athlete. He needs to “cut the cord” with his minny buddies like Jack said and be a pro.

 

[Jim Bob]

I’m honestly going to say I was wrong about Casey to this point, I would have argued he’d have been a lock for 45 points this year in August. But, from the time he showed up for the rookie tournament right through to now his game hasn’t been near as good as it should have been. Botterill really needs to get in his head that he needs to up the effort level and train to be a professional athlete. He needs to “cut the cord” with his minny buddies like Jack said and be a pro.

Eichel needs to take Casey up to train at Mike Boyle's this summer.

 

[1972]

Eichel needs to take Casey up to train at Mike Boyle's this summer.

At the same time, I think this season has probably been an eye opener for the work he needs to put in this summer. He needs to up pace, and he’s struggling seeing the game at this pace.

 

[Jim Bob]

At the same time, I think this season has probably been an eye opener for the work he needs to put in this summer. He needs to up pace, and he’s struggling seeing the game at this pace.

Cal Dietz at UM is a really smart S&C guy, but I really wonder about his ideas on training translating to hockey.

But, maybe it's the Vanek, Okposo, Mitts experience talking...

 

[Fezzy126]

This. All day this. Eichel as the 1C, some 2c that's outside the organization, Larssonsons anchoring the defensive line and Mitts eating up soft minutes (with Tage, I imagine).

That's the recipe right now.

One of the problems is that this is our deployment right now; Mitts is getting the 4th most minutes of our centers, with heavy ozone starts, against the weakest opponent forward competition, and he's still routinely getting caved in while contributing very limited offense. (This is with Sobotka & Larssons filling in as the 3a and 3b centers)

Even if we upgrade Sobotka, I still think Mitts could use some time in the AHL to build his confidence and work on his game. We can let Erod fill in at center temporarily while Mitts develops.

 

[sabremike]

At the same time, I think this season has probably been an eye opener for the work he needs to put in this summer. He needs to up pace, and he’s struggling seeing the game at this pace.

The problem is that (particularly in hindsight) the team should've taught him that lesson by starting him in Rochester and telling him that's a direct consequence for not putting in the work required to be a pro.

 

[Onslow]

It seems to me that he and his line can get into the ozone and cycle for ~15 seconds. The problem is that this possession never seems to translate into scoring chances, shots, or even shots attempted. Someone always seems to get checked or a giveaway and then that’s that.

 

[GellMann]

I think it's clear Mittelstadt isn't ready. That doesn't mean he doesn't still project to be a high end #2 center...

I think the thing that surprises me the most... is that Sam Reinhart was largely despised for not living up to his draft hype in his rookie year... and Mittelstadt is largely underperforming Reinhart's rookie year, and there's nary a peep.

I'll have the same amount of developmental patience for Mittelstadt, as I had for Reinhart.... but it was much easier to stomach when there was an Eichel-ROR spine to support Reinhart's development. Too bad Botts ****ed it up for Mitts.

I agree very strongly with the acquisition of a very good veteran #2 center. Ideally a rental or 2 year type of pickup. Not only will it help get us back on track this season, but it will stabilize the damage being done to Mitteltstadt.

Eric Staal is the ideal target. The obsession with the value of late 1st rounders needs to be re-thought... is there more value in winning NHL games today, developing our top prospect properly TODAY... or is there more value in an unknown asset who won't impact an NHL roster for 3-4 years? I am all about having a strong pipeline of ELCs. Two of the best ELCs in our pipeline right now are an Undrafted Euro signing, and a 7th round pick....

Stop overvaluing mid-late 1st rounders, start valuing NHL wins and NHL development.

Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, Zemgus etc. finally getting that playoff taste, Dahlin experiencing and understanding what he needs to train for in the offseason and using it as fuel the way we know he will, Mittelstadt having a meaningful reduction in the load he's carrying, and STILL more first round picks than normal, and more picks than the average amount, which is what competent GMs should be able to sustain their organization with

Or watching a center corps of Sobotka-Mitts-Rodrigues-Larsson while Jack is out and less productive 2/3Cs than even the tank Sabres had pace-wise even when Jack is back, missing the playoffs and pushing the HOPE for Jack's first playoff games in season 5, still far from a guarantee while wasting a 10 game win streak and an enormous shooting percentage/contract year for Skinner, and getting one more player that will have an impact on Rochester in 2022 the same way a guy like Nylander is this year

The choice is clear, how could we possibly choose to make a trade to bolster the current lineup with all of the cards on the table?

 

[1972]

Hindsight is 20/20 but another year at Minnesota would have been ideal.

 

[sabrebuild]

I’m honestly going to say I was wrong about Casey to this point, I would have argued he’d have been a lock for 45 points this year in August. But, from the time he showed up for the rookie tournament right through to now his game hasn’t been near as good as it should have been. Botterill really needs to get in his head that he needs to up the effort level and train to be a professional athlete. He needs to “cut the cord” with his minny buddies like Jack said and be a pro.

Everyone gets fooled from time to time.

But the one thing I noticed in Mitts last year in the 3-5 Gopher games I watched, and I know Chainshot brought it up a lot, was his inconsistency in dominating regularly in college.

And I don’t mean he needed to be at Jack’s level of almost 2 ppg and a National title appearance based mostly on his shoulders.

But he just never took over games regularly in Minnesota, nor did he show the physical maturity to just skate around people on pure athletics.

And just remember Eichel, with those tools and that production at BU, still only barely broke 50 points as a rookie.

If Mitts has been brought in on the wing with Jack and Skinner or Reinhart and O’Reilly, I could have seen him fitting in and being skilled enough to finish.

But after the O’Reilly trade, it was an enormous ask for a sub ppg ncaa 19 year old to slide right into a top 6 nhl role.

 

[1972]

Everyone gets fooled from time to time.

But the one thing I noticed in Mitts last year in the 3-5 Gopher games I watched, and I know Chainshot brought it up a lot, was his inconsistency in dominating regularly in college.

And I don’t mean he needed to be at Jack’s level of almost 2 ppg and a National title appearance based mostly on his shoulders.

But he just never took over games regularly in Minnesota, nor did he show the physical maturity to just skate around people on pure athletics.

And just remember Eichel, with those tools and that production at BU, still only barely broke 50 points as a rookie.

If Mitts has been brought in on the wing with Jack and Skinner or Reinhart and O’Reilly, I could have seen him fitting in and being skilled enough to finish.

But after the O’Reilly trade, it was an enormous ask for a sub ppg ncaa 19 year old to slide right into a top 6 nhl role.

World Juniors clouded a lot of people’s judgement I guess

 

[joshjull]

Everyone gets fooled from time to time.

But the one thing I noticed in Mitts last year in the 3-5 Gopher games I watched, and I know Chainshot brought it up a lot, was his inconsistency in dominating regularly in college.

And I don’t mean he needed to be at Jack’s level of almost 2 ppg and a National title appearance based mostly on his shoulders.

But he just never took over games regularly in Minnesota, nor did he show the physical maturity to just skate around people on pure athletics.

And just remember Eichel, with those tools and that production at BU, still only barely broke 50 points as a rookie.

If Mitts has been brought in on the wing with Jack and Skinner or Reinhart and O’Reilly, I could have seen him fitting in and being skilled enough to finish.

But after the O’Reilly trade, it was an enormous ask for a sub ppg ncaa 19 year old to slide right into a top 6 nhl role.

Except he wasn’t asked to slide right into a top 6 role. There is PLENTY to be disappointed about with Mitts this year. But not performing in a role he’s not actually being tasked with isn’t one of them.

Mitts is on the exact same role Sam had to start last year. Which would be the 3rd line center/secondary scoring line center. That the guys playing 2nd line center (Berglund, Sobotka and Erod) are no where near as good as ROR doesn’t change this.

 

[sabrebuild]

Except he wasn’t asked to slide right into a top 6 role. There is PLENTY to be disappointed about with Mitts this year. But not performing in a role he’s not actually being tasked with isn’t one of them.

Mitts is on the exact same role Sam had to start last year. Which would be the 3rd line center/secondary scoring line center. That the guys playing 2nd line center (Berglund, Sobotka and Erod) are no where near as good as ROR doesn’t change this.

My phone just sabotaged my second reply, so I surrender to the internets.

But shortly, I disagree. I think Mitts has been completely unprepared for the role the team wanted him to take. Whether he kept those minutes thru the season and failed at them is immaterial. Because he is failing at the nhl in general, so it really doesn’t matter, and pretty much nobody argues, he just can’t handle the minutes or the extra difficult minutes against top competition, that would be implicit issues with him being a top 6 center.

As a side note, I really don’t see the connection to Reinhart’s role last year. Other players on the team matters.

It matters for role, that no matter what Reinhart did last year, he would never have taken O’Reilly’ minutes. O’Reilly was always going to eat a ton of even strength minutes, because he can win his matchup and score. Eichel wasn’t going anywhere.

Conversely, if Mitts came in like a beast, they would have been desperate to give him those minutes over a useless Sobotka, a defensive only Larson line and Berglund who said he prefers the wing. I mean on some level it’s silly historical revision to say huge things were not expected from Mitts, both as a top prospect in national publishers and by management being willing to ship out an all star, under the assumption they had an in house replacement that could hope to fill it.

The situation between those two players and their role is absolutely influenced by who else was in the lineup.

Not that it really matters for what 1972 and I were talking about.

 

[ZZamboni]

I think it's clear Mittelstadt isn't ready. That doesn't mean he doesn't still project to be a high end #2 center...

I think the thing that surprises me the most... is that Sam Reinhart was largely despised for not living up to his draft hype in his rookie year... and Mittelstadt is largely underperforming Reinhart's rookie year, and there's nary a peep.

I'll have the same amount of developmental patience for Mittelstadt, as I had for Reinhart.... but it was much easier to stomach when there was an Eichel-ROR spine to support Reinhart's development. Too bad Botts ****ed it up for Mitts.

I agree very strongly with the acquisition of a very good veteran #2 center. Ideally a rental or 2 year type of pickup. Not only will it help get us back on track this season, but it will stabilize the damage being done to Mitteltstadt.

Stop overvaluing mid-late 1st rounders, start valuing NHL wins and NHL development.

Agree with all this. On a personal level, i hate Eric Staal so i'd be open to someone else for the #2 C

I'm not worried about Mitts development. He'll get there. He's too talented to not.

 

[Gordo21]

I'm more worried about his stick being too short.

Eventually he'll figure out he can't be Mr. Fancy Pants at this level.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Dreakon13]

I think the thing that surprises me the most... is that Sam Reinhart was largely despised for not living up to his draft hype in his rookie year... and Mittelstadt is largely underperforming Reinhart's rookie year, and there's nary a peep.

I think it's because everyone is on the same page that Mittelstadt is struggling. Not everyone was on the same page about Reinhart when he was struggling initially.

 

[Aladyyn]

I think it's because everyone is on the same page that Mittelstadt is struggling. Not everyone was on the same page about Reinhart when he was struggling initially.

Because he wasn't.

 

[Dreakon13]

Because he wasn't.

Allow me to amend myself...

"Not everyone was on the same page about if Reinhart was struggling initially."