Confirmed with Link: Carolina Hurricanes Sale - He Dundon it.

[A Star is Burns]

I guess if we were one of the worst non-expansion teams in the modern era, or the 4th worst team in the league, yeah, maybe we'd need to add a Hart trophy finalist.

The Devils had to improve by 27 points to make the playoffs. If we had to get 97 next year, we need to add 14.

The Avs had to improve by 47 points to make the playoffs. If we had to get to 95, we need to add 12.

Adding a competent goalie (apparently easier said than done) and getting deeper and harder to play against, sure, I buy that.

 

[NotOpie]

#WeSuck

Arguing over how bad we suck or whether we might not suck so much in the near future seems a bit pointless....and by suck, I mean we didn't make the playoffs when 1/2 the league does....and we've suffered that futility for 9 years.

Yet despite that, there's room to be hopeful....

I'm the resident optimist here and really like the core and the depth that we have. I still feel, as most do, that we were a competent goaltender away this season. Add another scoring threat and a motivated Jeff Skinner and we're likely a mid-level playoff contender.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I guess if we were one of the worst non-expansion teams in the modern era, or the 4th worst team in the league, yeah, maybe we'd need to add a Hart trophy finalist.

The Devils had to improve by 27 points to make the playoffs. If we had to get 97 next year, we need to add 14.

The Avs had to improve by 47 points to make the playoffs. If we had to get to 95, we need to add 12.

Adding a competent goalie (apparently easier said than done) and getting deeper and harder to play against, sure, I buy that.

That's my view as well. Having Faulk be the Faulk of old, having a better goalie than Darling, and having 1 more scorer upfront would have made a world of difference on this team. I don't think any one of those things alone would have done it for us, but none of them are out of the realm of possibilities. For instance, trade for ROR, sign a Neal, Kane or JVR (even if we have to overpay), and find a competent goalie. Difficult to do? Sure, but by no means impossible.

Something like:
Skinner-ROR-Lindholm
JVR/Kane-Staal-Williams
Aho-Necas-TT
McGinn-Rask-Foegele
Zykov

Assume either Faulk+picks/prospects or Hanifin+Picks/prospects is moved for ROR. Leaves the D with Slavin, Pesce, Hanifin/Faulk, Fleury, TVR, Dhalbeck, Bean, McKeown, and/or maybe a vet.

 

[DaveG]

I honestly do think one (and only one) of those things would have made that difference for us, the better goalie. Frankly I don't think it can be understated just how much Scott Darling's play destroyed this team this year. As I stated in the worst player thread on the main board, Cam Ward posting mediocre stats in his own right was still at a playoff level pace (~97 points) and for much of the season until the collapse was at over a 100 point pace. That's how bad Darling was to be able to torpedo our playoff chances when you have a goalie that's not even that good that's still playing at a 100 point pace over a fairly large sample size.


Also Hanifin + for ROR is overpayment, hell Hanifin for ROR is overpayment. Fleury or Bean + is more along the lines of what the price point on that should be.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I honestly do think one (and only one) of those things would have made that difference for us, the better goalie. Frankly I don't think it can be understated just how much Scott Darling's play destroyed this team this year. As I stated in the worst player thread on the main board, Cam Ward posting mediocre stats in his own right was still at a playoff level pace (~97 points) and for much of the season until the collapse was at over a 100 point pace. That's how bad Darling was to be able to torpedo our playoff chances when you have a goalie that's not even that good that's still playing at a 100 point pace over a fairly large sample size.

I get that if you just equate the team's record with Cam in net, it makes it seem like the team would hit 100 points, but it's not that simple. This team was terrible on the PP, PK (which is partially on the goalie), and was 23rd in the NHL in goals scored. Only 2 teams (Anaheim at #19 and CLB at #17 and missed being #16 by 1 goal) were outside the top 16 in goals scored and still made the playoffs. Those teams had elite/near elite goaltending with Gibson and Bob, and in Anaheim's case, very good defense. I don't think the Canes were a 100 point team with just a little bit better goaltending so IMO, they needed more than just better goaltending to be a playoff team. The offense wasn't there and the team had too many defensive breakdowns.

Also Hanifin + for ROR is overpayment, hell Hanifin for ROR is overpayment. Fleury or Bean + is more along the lines of what the price point on that should be.

From a Canes POV, that is what we'd want the price point to be. From a Sabres POV, I don't see any way they'd accept Fleury or Bean+, unless the + is pretty substantial (something like Lindholm + our first). I realize there are some Canes fans that think that ROR is only a slight upgrade on Staal, but I disagree with that assessment. Over the past 4 seasons, ROR averages 21G, 62 points per 82 Games. Staal averages 18G, 48 points per 82 games during that same stretch.

If we could get ROR for Bean or Fleury and a + that isn't huge, that would be a major steal IMO.

 

[Stickpucker]

I hear you, and I do agree we’re pretty close to the bottom as a UFA destination. I was talking more in terms of team building. Buffalo might be a couple of pieces away, but it’s looking more like 5 years at the pace they’re moving. Detroit is facing a full strip down and rebuild, like us 4 years ago.

If nothing else, we’re in a less soul sucking place than Arizona. Their playoff years are a distant memory and at this point draft picks must be starting to seem pretty meaningless.

Clayton Keller, OEL, and Raanta are a good start. They could definitely use depth and role players though.

 

[DaveG]

I get that if you just equate the team's record with Cam in net, it makes it seem like the team would hit 100 points, but it's not that simple. This team was terrible on the PP, PK (which is partially on the goalie), and was 23rd in the NHL in goals scored. Only 2 teams (Anaheim at #19 and CLB at #17 and missed being #16 by 1 goal) were outside the top 16 in goals scored and still made the playoffs. Those teams had elite/near elite goaltending with Gibson and Bob, and in Anaheim's case, very good defense. I don't think the Canes were a 100 point team with just a little bit better goaltending so IMO, they needed more than just better goaltending to be a playoff team. The offense wasn't there and the team had too many defensive breakdowns.



From a Canes POV, that is what we'd want the price point to be. From a Sabres POV, I don't see any way they'd accept Fleury or Bean+, unless the + is pretty substantial (something like Lindholm + our first). I realize there are some Canes fans that think that ROR is only a slight upgrade on Staal, but I disagree with that assessment. Over the past 4 seasons, ROR averages 21G, 62 points per 82 Games. Staal averages 18G, 48 points per 82 games during that same stretch.

If we could get ROR for Bean or Fleury and a + that isn't huge, that would be a major steal IMO.

I don't think we'd be a 100 point either necessarily, though I'd also argue that it's not out of the realm of possibility either. There was that stretch of games in mid-march after the deadline where the team just seemed to mail it in starting with the debacle against Minnesota until guys like Zykov were called up. I don't think that would have been the case had we had a better goalie in net, and I also think we would have made some moves at the deadline to try to put the team over the top and in to the playoffs had we been in a better position. A position we would have been in at the deadline if we had better goaltending, in which Scott Darling was the main culprit. Doesn't guarantee that we make the playoffs still, but it vastly improves the situation.

 

[Stickpucker]

How far away were the Devils and Avs this time last year?

Who is our Nathan MacKinnon or Taylor Hall? Who is our league average goalie?

Will Jordo ever break 50 pts?

 

[Stickpucker]

So we need to add a likely Hart finalist. No biggie.

We really really need to call Chia ASAP....only way that becomes a reality

 

[Stickpucker]

#WeSuck

Arguing over how bad we suck or whether we might not suck so much in the near future seems a bit pointless....and by suck, I mean we didn't make the playoffs when 1/2 the league does....and we've suffered that futility for 9 years.

Yet despite that, there's room to be hopeful....

I'm the resident optimist here and really like the core and the depth that we have. I still feel, as most do, that we were a competent goaltender away this season. Add another scoring threat and a motivated Jeff Skinner and we're likely a mid-level playoff contender.

##Quantify the suck
##Redvolution

 

[Stickpucker]

That's my view as well. Having Faulk be the Faulk of old, having a better goalie than Darling, and having 1 more scorer upfront would have made a world of difference on this team. I don't think any one of those things alone would have done it for us, but none of them are out of the realm of possibilities. For instance, trade for ROR, sign a Neal, Kane or JVR (even if we have to overpay), and find a competent goalie. Difficult to do? Sure, but by no means impossible.

Something like:
Skinner-ROR-Lindholm
JVR/Kane-Staal-Williams
Aho-Necas-TT
McGinn-Rask-Foegele
Zykov

Assume either Faulk+picks/prospects or Hanifin+Picks/prospects is moved for ROR. Leaves the D with Slavin, Pesce, Hanifin/Faulk, Fleury, TVR, Dhalbeck, Bean, McKeown, and/or maybe a vet.

Sign Carlson?

 

[Ruudukkopupuset]

Who is our Nathan MacKinnon or Taylor Hall? Who is our league average goalie?

I do not think that the quickest way to success is to copy and emulate whatever someone did the season before. Then those seemingly ahead can very quickly turn 180 degrees in the cycle of life as they seemingly do not even recognize what made their play great and therefore remove key pieces of the puzzle as they advance. Ron Francis left this organization in a great place in terms of what he was building for there was an idea of players who can do wall-passes to create time and space in order to take advantage of what they find through their joint play. If you think moneyball then there are not many others who can make the lines around them work better than Aho and Teräväinen are able to.

For example the goalie question is easy to answer. Bobrovski won his Vezinas after receiving world class goaltending coaching in the KHL (during the lockout from the new goaltending coach of the Colorado Avalanches Jussi Parkkila), playing most recently under defensive-minded coaching. There are top-30 goaltenders in the world who do not even play in the NHL. All they require is a fair chance to play games and suitable monetary compensation.

The new coaching team is then a harder and far more important question than any other personnel question. Rami and Erkka would be mine top choices list when there are talks of Grönborg and Znarok looking over the ocean. People who can install structure into the play are certainly without a NHL job since these positions are luckily are not tied down to the restricted contracts system so I wouldn't be certain that there would not be dozens of points incoming only because of a new vision of play in the upcoming season.

 

[Hulkacaniac]

Dundon interview at time 33:29 on ESPN podcast (Wyshynski and Kaplan):
Rob Rossi & Tom Dundon

 

[cptjeff]

Dundon interview at time 33:29 on ESPN podcast (Wyshynski and Kaplan):
Rob Rossi & Tom Dundon

Pretty much definitely confirms that he's looking to pay less than market value for coach and GM. He's talking a lot about how he thinks there are a lot of people who can do the jobs and who want the job, and will take it at a much lower rate in order to get their first break.

So buckle up. Could be a disaster, or we could strike gold. But Dundon is definitely going to be shaking things up.

 

[bleedgreen]

But why would we WANT to be the team good future exec’s break into the league with - so they can go make money with someone else.

Did we just walk into moneyball?

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Pretty much definitely confirms that he's looking to pay less than market value for coach and GM. He's talking a lot about how he thinks there are a lot of people who can do the jobs and who want the job, and will take it at a much lower rate in order to get their first break.

So buckle up. Could be a disaster, or we could strike gold. But Dundon is definitely going to be shaking things up.

Can the "big bad Canadian media just doesn't like our new and unconventional owner because he's not part of the Old Boys Club" narrative finally die now?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Yeah, that interview just confirmed that he's cheap. He hasn't outright blamed the market, but he strongly hinted at it.

Disappointing. So much for the guy that's going to do whatever it takes to make the team a winner.

 

[vorbis]

Dundon interview at time 33:29 on ESPN podcast (Wyshynski and Kaplan):
Rob Rossi & Tom Dundon

sigh. gotta admit, my ****show spidey sense is tingling with his answers. I guess it's at least good that he appears to have sound, thought-out reasoning for why he wants to go about the GM search the way he is, but I mean I dunno. this could go very badly before it goes well. and it's been 9 years already.

 

[RodTheBawd]

He's a market disruptor. Unfortunate that we have to be the guinea pigs.

 

[Buenos Necas]

Guess that rules out any experienced hires for coach or GM. Can see why hiring Rod makes a lot of sense to Dundon.

 

[GoldiFox]

Welp at least there are some game-changers in the next two Drafts. I'd take a spectacular failure of a season and a top-5 pick over another mediocre ~#10 Overall season all day.

It would be so much more comforting if he just said something like "Yeah I'm going to take $1 milli from the GM salary and hire the best scouts in Europe". Under-appreciating a traditionally-important position is a lot less scary than being so cocksure you are" top businessman #1" that you don't have to spend where others do.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

In 3 months we've gone from, "Whatever it takes to win" to "You know what will really save us some money? Cutting the salaries of the two most important positions in the organization!".

It would be so much more comforting if he just said something like "Yeah I'm going to take $1 milli from the GM salary and hire the best scouts in Europe"

TD has not handled the media well in his short stint here.

 

[MinJaBen]

Anybody missing PK yet?

 

[Buenos Necas]

What I don’t get is what his endgame is with saving a couple hundred thousand a year on those positions. For how important those two roles are, paying market value (say 800k-1mil a year) honestly seems like some of the best return for your money in the organization.

I guess the obvious answer is he doesn’t see those roles as being nearly as important as everyone else does. We’ll see how it plays out in the long run. Maybe a more collaborative group approach to the front office ends up working out just fine. If nothing else, he’s certainly approaching things differently...

 

[A Star is Burns]

I think his reasoning makes sense. I'm sure there are plenty of diamonds in the rough out there that could do a phenomenal job on the cheap, and there are only so many of these jobs. If someone gets it and performs well, I'm not sure that Dundon would deny them an earned raise.

Of course, it's not easy for us as fans of this team having been through what we've been through for nine seasons to stomach being the guinea pigs. I'm still not sure that I'm totally upset with him upsetting the established order of things as opposed to the last nine seasons. It all still comes down to results ultimately, and maybe he'll get them.