Confirmed with Link: Carolina Hurricanes Sale - He Dundon it.

[Big Daddy Cane]

If someone from the organization is reading this, please suggest to Dundon to calm it down with the media appearances. I'm sure he's enjoying his new found fame, but he's destroying the illusion of hope interview by interview.

 

[DaveG]

Maybe instead of analytics and advanced stats we should be investing in voodoo and witchcraft.

If we can’t make our team better we can at least make everyone else worse/dead.

I thought we tried that already with Lack and Darlin.... oh, not that kind of voodoo. Yeah that certainly couldn't hurt.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I don’t like the team makeup, but I also don’t want to pay someone a reasonable wage to change the team to make it better.

He’s tanking. He’s just not saying it.

Interesting. I'm not sure how that's the only conclusion you can come to. It could be that with the guys we have, and whatever cheap guy looking for an opportunity we find for the GM role, they may be able to run things well just like he's saying.

You may be right, but I guess we'll see what player personnel moves are made to really see.

 

[Svechhammer]

Yeah, he's going to intentionally tank.

Which... I mean is this a roster that is going to contend for a Cup in the next 5 years? No, probably not. His biggest confidant in ownership is Mark Cuban, a man who was just accused of blatantly tanking by the NBA, a league where it can be argued the favorite to make the Finals in the East built itself through one of the most blatant tank jobs in sporting history. The reigning 2x Cup Champ built itself through being bad enough long enough that they were gifted multiple superstars, and the team that has dominated the regular season in the Metro built itself by doing the same. 20 years ago, some of the biggest dregs in the NHL were the Caps, Pens, and Blackhawks, and we all see what that got them. 10 years ago the hands down worst teams in baseball were the Royals and Astros. The Eagles were a 2 win joke 2 years ago in the NFL. They all set the table for legit powerhouses through the draft during a time when they were truly terrible.

So... if I'm Dundon, looking at how things play out in pretty much all sports, I'm looking at a reality where the worst place you could be every year is at the playoff cut line. That's where we've been the vast majority of the past decade. So we need to get out of the rut somehow... Either strip it down or inject funds to build it up. He's saying our current financials aren't good enough to warrant an injection.... It also sounds like he's willing to bite the short term financial bullet to allow us to be bad enough to be long-term good.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Even with a few player trades/swaps, a lot will depend on how some players (Rask, Skinner, Lindholm, Staal, Faulk, Hanifin) play under a new coach, how some of the new guys (AHL guys, Necas?, Bean?) hit the ground running and what happens in goal. We don't have elite talent and if he holds true to his words, we'll be one of the bottom spending teams in the NHL, like we have been. That doesn't leave much margin for error, particularly in the Metro.

 

[DaveG]

The disappointing thing to me on this is that it means we're not getting rid of Darling, as that would actually require spending money

 

[A Star is Burns]

Except tanking isn't always rewarded as highly as it was back then. That may be his strategy, but you can still risk not getting that elite talent.

 

[Svechhammer]

Except tanking isn't always rewarded as highly as it was back then. That may be his strategy, but you can still risk not getting that elite talent.

Yeah but if you're that bad, while you might not get the #1 pick, you're probably picking multiple times in the Top 3. Get enough picks that high, eventually you're going to land a star or two. Might not be guaranteed the cream of the crop like you used to be, but it's still a good long term play.

And before we even mention the Browns or Oilers, keep in mind that the reason they're as well known as they are is because they're the rare times where this kind of tanking hasn't worked. For every one of them, there's 3 or 4 teams that made it happen.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Well, on the positive side, at least every bit of news that comes out makes the Francis/Dundon split a bit more favorable to Francis.

If Dundon tried to get Francis to follow some of these stupid ideals, or if Dundon cringed over the amount that Francis made, it's no wonder they couldn't see eye-to-eye.

Even more ironic is the comment Dundon made shortly after the "promotion":

“Common sense and judgment usually win. Ego loses.”

Now, it might just be me, but paying a GM/coach a reasonable wage, one that's comparable to his peers, seems like common sense. To believe you could find someone just as good at half the price because people are falling over themselves to take your job opening, that seems a bit egotistical. But maybe things change when you make your first billion.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Canes need to hit on the picks they do have, so hopefully, beefing up the scouting and analytics department will help that. Yeah, it typically takes a #1/2 pick to get the Crosby, McDavid, Malkin, MacKinnon types, but there are still tons of guys like Aho, Pastrnak, Kucherov, Panarin, Giroux, Marchand, Bergeron, Barzal, Boeser, etc..that are great talents outside of the 1st/2nd pick. Of the top 20 scorers in the NHL today, 8 of them are #1/2 picks, so it's clear that your chances of getting an elite talent increases greatly with a 1st/2nd OA, but there are lots of players out there to be had after the 1st/2nd OA.

Aho was a slam dunk pick in this regards. Necas looks very promising in this regard. We got a bit lucky with Slavin as well. Just need a few more like that. The team has depth in what I'd call guys with middle 6 potential in Zykov, Saarela, Roy, Gauthier, Kuokkanen, etc...so I think we have enough assets to fill out a line-up to create good depth, now we just need 1-2 more guys like Aho.

We either have to do that via draft or use some of the depth to trade for it. No matter how much we might want to see it, I don't see tanking as a realistic option for this team.

 

[AD Skinner]

The disappointing thing to me on this is that it means we're not getting rid of Darling, as that would actually require spending money

If he's truly trying to tank there's no one better for the job than Darling

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well, on the positive side, at least every bit of news that comes out makes the Francis/Dundon split a bit more favorable to Francis.

If Dundon tried to get Francis to follow some of these stupid ideals, or if Dundon cringed over the amount that Francis made, it's no wonder they couldn't see eye-to-eye.

I really think it was no more complicated than Dundon saw the role of the GM to be different than what Francis saw the role to be, and how he was performing said role. It's pretty clear to me that Dundon places less value the role of the GM, than other teams do, both by the salary he's offering and his comments (red/green/yellow example - collaborative approach, etc..). Not saying that is wrong, nor am I saying it's right, but I can see how Francis wouldn't want to operate in that type of environment and Dundon wouldn't want a guy that didn't want to operate that way.

 

[DaveG]

Yeah but if you're that bad, while you might not get the #1 pick, you're probably picking multiple times in the Top 3. Get enough picks that high, eventually you're going to land a star or two. Might not be guaranteed the cream of the crop like you used to be, but it's still a good long term play.

And before we even mention the Browns or Oilers, keep in mind that the reason they're as well known as they are is because they're the rare times where this kind of tanking hasn't worked. For every one of them, there's 3 or 4 teams that made it happen.

Would love to agree with that take but it's not quite true. It's not just Edmonton. Sabres still suck and really aren't even close, Arizona's a mess, Panthers are a mess despite not having a Scott Darling sized shitstorm in net and having Barkov, Isles are a bigger mess then we are. For every Tampa, Pittsburgh, Chicago, or Washington there's another team that goes through a similar tank that just gets stuck in that rut because the ping pong balls don't go the right way (Arizona, Florida) or because their drafting after the first round is shit (Buffalo, Edmonton) or because their management is just simply disfunctional (NYI, Florida). Going full rebuild, especially with our luck, is just f***ing begging for us to become the next Florida rather then the next Tampa. I mean f*** we already ARE the next Florida in terms of how long we've missed, do we really need to be adding on to that for the sake of yet another f***ing rebuild? Do we need to have Pittsburgh Pirates level drought in a league where half the f***ing teams make the playoffs?

 

[Chrispy]

I really think it was no more complicated than Dundon saw the role of the GM to be different than what Francis saw the role to be, and how he was performing said role. It's pretty clear to me that Dundon places less value the role of the GM, than other teams do, both by the salary he's offering and his comments (red/green/yellow example - collaborative approach, etc..). Not saying that is wrong, nor am I saying it's right, but I can see how Francis wouldn't want to operate in that type of environment and Dundon wouldn't want a guy that didn't want to operate that way.

At this point I think it's likely we see a division of the GM job. Waddell is doing business-side work, the new hire Krepelka is a contracts expert. Bring in a head of scouting (maybe 2 scouts to lead up scouting of NHL and juniors) and a capologist and you have just about everything a GM would oversee.

Edit to add that this could be the group decision complex Dundon envisions. Scout pushing for a player, Krepelka saying what he thinks he could sign the player for and capologist talking about what else they need to save space for.

 

[GoldiFox]

Goalies seem to be the glaring issue keeping the Canes from the Playoffs and that won't get fixed through the Draft or tanking. Outside making the Playoffs, It is true that the Canes really need some more elite talent if they want to truly compete for a Championship rather than just round 1-2 exits. A recent example would be Erik Karlsson powering Ottawa to a ECF essentially on his own power. They could accelerate the timeline, think outside the box and make an NFL-esk Draft trade up to #2. Like a serious Hanifin + #11 Overall + 2019 1st for #2 Overall type deal. Svechnikov is a Laine-level talent that would have a similar impact for the Canes next season (30+ goal Rookie)

 

[bluedevil58]

Goalies seem to be the glaring issue keeping the Canes from the Playoffs and that won't get fixed through the Draft or tanking. Outside making the Playoffs, It is true that the Canes really need some more elite talent if they want to truly compete for a Championship rather than just round 1-2 exits. A recent example would be Erik Karlsson powering Ottawa to a ECF essentially on his own power. They could accelerate the timeline, think outside the box and make an NFL-esk Draft trade up to #2. Like a serious Hanifin + #11 Overall + 2019 1st for #2 Overall type deal.

There isn't an impact now player in this years draft aside from a D man. Someone please correct me if I am wrong here?

 

[cptjeff]

We need to trade for Holtby/Grubauer, not a draft pick.

 

[DaveG]

There isn't an impact now player in this years draft aside from a D man. Someone please correct me if I am wrong here?

There are plenty of impact players in this years draft. Just not guys that are going to have an instant impact, though Svechnikov, Tkachuk, and likely Zadina could probably step in from day 1 and be no worse the Hischier was for the Devils this past year.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

What do you guys think happens if the Canes go in the tank for a year or two? Because I have an idea - and I think Dundon does too. There’s something not quite right with this whole scenario.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What do you guys think happens if the Canes go in the tank for a year or two? Because I have an idea - and I think Dundon does too. There’s something not quite right with this whole scenario.

Starts with "relo" and ends with "cation"?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Trading for a goalie is the most likely scenario, as long as it's not the 1st round pick. Lack of scoring / lack of elite talent is as big of an issue, if nor more so, than bad goaltending IMO and Canes still desperately need a shot at more talent.

 

[bluedevil58]

Starts with "relo" and ends with "cation"?

Yup. That will be the end of hockey night in Carolina.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Starts with "relo" and ends with "cation"?

I know the arguments against it. I am not saying it’s a certainty, a plan, anything like that ..... but isn’t all this stuff just off ?

 

[tarheelhockey]

God damn, are we really talking about a tank right now?

This team keeps proving me wrong when I think it couldn’t possibly get any more depressing.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Starts with "relo" and ends with "cation"?

“Reload, win the Stanley Cup, then take a lovely vacation”?