Confirmed with Link: [CAR/VAN] Canucks acquire D Ethan Bear (18% retained), C Lane Pederson for 5th Round Pick in '23

[Petey O]

Ok. So you think the team is a cup contender and I dont. That is fine.

Im OBVIOUSLY not basing my take on the past 7 games but the overall state of the team these past 3 years.

edit. If we truly are in our cup contention window we should use Lekkerimäki and this years 1st pick to improve the team for this year.

So your philosophy is

"Tear down if the team is not at least a cup contender"? Not trying to have a mean tone, just legitimately curious.

Do you not see value in a team going through growing pains and developing cohesion? They're obviously going to need a couple key trades to even sniff contender status but every team, no matter how good they are, can have really bad or unlucky periods of play. I think there's value to this in the long term.

And, you're right, if they don't turn into a competitive team even after all of these what should be 'growing stages', you look to rebuild, but I don't think we're there yet where we can make that determination.

 

[F A N]

I've just checked Benning's transaction history and he never made a single player transaction between the opening game and the start of December. Benning's thing was offseason insanity and then sitting around doing nothing once the puck dropped.

Lain for Acton? The Leivo trade was on Dec. 3.

Anyways, is it even meaningful though? I looked through Gillis' trade history and the Sturm/Booth trade was Gillis' only transaction between the opening game and the start of December.

The fact that Ethan Bear is expandable in Carolina because of Chatfield is kind of ironic.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

So your philosophy is

"Tear down if the team is not at least a cup contender"? Not trying to have a mean tone, just legitimately curious.

Do you not see value in a team going through growing pains and developing cohesion? They're obviously going to need a couple key trades to even sniff contender status but every team, no matter how good they are, can have really bad or unlucky periods of play. I think there's value to this in the long term.

And, you're right, if they don't turn into a competitive team even after all of these what should be 'growing stages', you look to rebuild, but I don't think we're there yet where we can make that determination.

Not always but I think the path to contention for this broken team eventually goes through a proper rebuild. Short of a trade or two where be absolutely fleece someone, this team has very little room to grow.

The problem is we have the salary structure and prospect pool of a team that is exiting a cup contention window.

Also will again be at a pick defecit for the next two drafts.

We are selling future assets to try to sneak in to the playoffs this year. If the management continues on this path we are setting up a second decade of futility.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Not always but I think the path to contention for this broken team eventually goes through a proper rebuild. Short of a trade or two where be absolutely fleece someone, this team has very little room to grow.

The problem is we have the salary structure and prospect pool of a team that is exiting a cup contention window.

Also will again be at a pick defecit for the next two drafts.

We are selling future assets to try to sneak in to the playoffs this year. If the management continues on this path we are setting up a second decade of futility.

This is a burned core in my opinion. I’d rather just start the pain now with a less broken group. I don’t believe in this group.

 

[Rey]

Worth noting that Carolina's defense is arguably the best group in the NHL. I realize being the 7/8th guy down the chart means you're not a stud but Bear could easily be our 4th/5th best defenseman.

Also worth noting that Jalen Chatfeild outplayed Bear for a roster spot.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Also worth noting that Jalen Chatfeild outplayed Bear for a roster spot.

Yeah.

This probably affects my evaluation of Bear too much.

But he did. There is no denying that.

 

[MS]

Ok. So you think the team is a cup contender and I dont. That is fine.

Im OBVIOUSLY not basing my take on the past 7 games but the overall state of the team these past 3 years.

edit. If we truly are in our cup contention window we should use Lekkerimäki and this years 1st pick to improve the team for this year.

The team doesn’t have to be a Cup contender to justify trading tiny assets to make roster improvements.

Fans have honestly gone mad with this tanking obsession. It’s absurd.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The team doesn’t have to be a Cup contender to justify trading tiny assets to make roster improvements.

Fans have honestly gone mad with this tanking obsession. It’s absurd.

We wont be tanking this year. Team is too good for that.

 

[MS]

We wont be tanking this year. Team is too good for that.

Do you honestly believe that only the 5-8 ‘contending’ teams should be trying to improve their teams?

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Do you honestly believe that only the 5-8 ‘contending’ teams should be trying to improve their teams?

For me, personally, I appreciate small improvements as they’ll produce sweeter fruit to sell when the inevitable eventual rebuild hits, kicking and screaming or not.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Do you honestly believe that only the 5-8 ‘contending’ teams should be trying to improve their teams?

It really depends on how the team is trending.

To me we are a playoff hopeful where gravity will pull us down as the next few years roll along.

I also fully expected Demko, Miller, OEL and Myers to decline from last year, when we were not good enough.


Bear, if he plays really well becomes really expensive next season. If he doesnt perform this year, then we just spent 2nd (Dickinson cap dump) and 5th to make space for him this year for nothing.

Just to be clear, Im not calling for the heads of the management. They are doing a decent job executing a completely flawed plan.

 

[andora]

Retain half at TDL and we can get a 2nd if not a 1st. RHD rentals at tradeline gets a haul.

The most you could reasonable expect is a 3rd i think relative to bear establishing himself in some way

I don't really buy it. It was plainly evident that they were going to have these sorts of problems. If they weren't anticipating this sort of situation, they weren't planning ahead in a way that inspires any confidence.


I also don't really buy that the cost would've been so much higher then. Bear has been on the market for like a year now. It's not like they just recently decided they'd like to move him.

But then burns fell into their lap.. then coghlan fell into their lap and bear kept getting pushed down. No way he moves retained for a 5th in june

I get where you're coming from, but there have only been two trades like this made since the season started and we have made both of them. I don't have a problem with this deal in and of itself, but it's a bit frustrating that for the 8th season in a row we are scrambling trying to desperately patch holes with duct tape by the 3rd week of the season. That's the part that "feels like Benning." A 5th round pick is pretty much worthless, but the fact that we have to deal picks+prospects for short-term fixes because our depth is already in shambles is frustrating, and no other team has had to do this.

Is it fair the other interpretation could be to simply be identifying other teams young players that they feel could succeed?

I mean i think it is reasonable that the highest expectation this mgmt group has this year is playoffs, and these moves are more about auditioning young players for beyond this year. I dont think these are plugging holes in as much as having holes and the freedom to audition guys.

Also worth noting that Jalen Chatfeild outplayed Bear for a roster spot.

I dont think the fact that one player developing specifically is a knock on another player - also it helps that chatfield has a few elements that brindamour has shown to like on his third pair

I am happy chatfield is doing what he is i liked him here

 

[tantalum]

What’s curious to me is the thinking because Bear was sitting in the press box it must mean he can’t play on any team. Yet everyone loves Schenn and recognizes that ya he can play everyday. He wouldn’t on many teams in the league though because they might be deeper at the position.

 

[Dala]

Seems like Dermott might be out awhile. No matter where i look do i see any report on what's actually wrong with him. However he is on LTIR. So is Poolman, who might be done for good. Neither of those thing were true when we traded Dickinson for cap space.
These are the kind of trades that happen when your team is struggling badly and half your D is injured. Hughes, Stillman and I wouldn't be surprised if something is wrong with OEL. I don't think i've ever seen a guy go from skating okay to can't f***ing skate that quickly unless it was injury related.
Bear was ok to good in Edmonton, although overplayed, fans just made him the goat for a few glaring errors on an entire team that couldnt play any Defence, with an AHL goalie.

OEL was in a foot brace (cast?) this summer, perhaps not fully recovered from some early surgery or similar?

 

[Burnaby Schmo]

Don’t like it.

Just a continual spinning of the wheels and going nowhere.

This is a Benning type move.

I don't love it either, but with the retention and giving up only a 5th, I don't mind it.

 

[sting101]

It really depends on how the team is trending.

To me we are a playoff hopeful where gravity will pull us down as the next few years roll along.

I also fully expected Demko, Miller, OEL and Myers to decline from last year, when we were not good enough.


Bear, if he plays really well becomes really expensive next season. If he doesnt perform this year, then we just spent 2nd (Dickinson cap dump) and 5th to make space for him this year for nothing.

Just to be clear, Im not calling for the heads of the management. They are doing a decent job executing a completely flawed plan.

So you manage day to day?

 

[sting101]

OEL was in a foot brace (cast?) this summer, perhaps not fully recovered from some early surgery or similar?

Yes he would not have been able to train properly until July at the earliest from a broken foot at the worlds.

People need to calm down on OEL. It was a terrible trade but he's still a good defenseman being put in a tough situation due to almost everyone sucking or hurt on the backline. Add that our forwards are overall a pretty poor group in our own zone and he's been getting exposed because yes he looks like a guy that is 31 and recovering from a broken foot with little time to train in the off season.

 

[PavelBure10]

I like the trade. We get a righthanded defenseman who still has some potential, while not breaking the bank to get him. A 5th?, I honestly thought he could of went for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Also really like that Carolina has taken some of his cap hit.
Ethan Bear might of been Carolina's 7th defenseman, but I still have faith that he can come into the Canucks lineup and become a regular who could oneday push into the top 4.

It's worth the gamble

 

[m9]

Yes he would not have been able to train properly until July at the earliest from a broken foot at the worlds.

People need to calm down on OEL. It was a terrible trade but he's still a good defenseman being put in a tough situation due to almost everyone sucking or hurt on the backline. Add that our forwards are overall a pretty poor group in our own zone and he's been getting exposed because yes he looks like a guy that is 31 and recovering from a broken foot with little time to train in the off season.

He is signed long-term to a massive contract and is playing like a 3rd pairing defenseman. I think it's fair to be patient - I mean, what choice do we have - but concerns are pretty warranted here.

 

[Hansen]

Also worth noting that Jalen Chatfeild outplayed Bear for a roster spot.

In the same way that Dakota Joshua outplayed Connor Garland for a roster spot a week or two ago, different needs in different places, and coaches dont always make the right choice. Carolinas D is absolutely loaded and they seem to really like Chatfield for some reason (he probably brings an edge their other d dont)

 

[RealGudbranson]

All this talk of Chatfield: for whatever it’s worth, fancy stats and the hurricanes theathletic coverage is raving about Chatfield’s contributions this year; as if he’s one of their best defensemen (through a small sample size). It’s not as if Bear couldn’t beat out the Travis Green iteration of Jalen Chatfield.

 

[sting101]

Rumor has it that Rod the bod isn't very patient for people that are outta shape and apparently Ethan was outta shape

When you have Burns and Pesce and your role is as a safe 3rd pair guy being mistake prone and outta shape isn't gonna sit well especially when you carry a pretty good salary and dont have a plus trait that a team relies on

Not surprising he burned his bridge with Carolina. Have heard the maturity comments before about Bear. The guy can play though and its a good reclamation project.

Have to believe Poolman will be bought out at seasons end if he's not LTIRd, not sure how much longer Schenn can be a regular

NHL player and a player for Abbotsford for a 5th is never a bad deal when you need them. This is a lot different than Myrenberg and the 2nd thrown in to get rid of Dickinson. And before you say Myrenberg is a 5th yes he was but in a re draft he's probably pushing the 2nd round right now and is easily a 3rd.

Not a fan of that deal in isolation as it follows some of Bennings rational when dumping 18-21 yr olds for older 21-23 yr old propspects even though i can see what they did collectively with F.Johansson for free at least. I also trust this groups pro scouting more so it will be interesting to see how this goes

 

[VanJack]

Since the start of the season, Allvin has been the most active GM's in the league. This is something Canuck fans aren't used to--a GM who identifies holes in the lineup and actively tries to plug them.

So far this season coming in the door are Riley Stillman, Jack Studnicka, Ethan Bear, Lane Pedersen and Chad Rau....and heading out the door Dickinson, DiPietro, Myrenberg, a second rounder and a fifth rounder.

The draft picks are unfortunate.....but for the cap-strapped team like the Canucks there was little option. I have no idea whether any of these guys will be anything more than 'stop-gaps' and a few are destined for Abbotsford.

But the Canucks have added depth on the blueline and in Abbotsford.....all in all a solid body of work.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yes he would not have been able to train properly until July at the earliest from a broken foot at the worlds.

People need to calm down on OEL. It was a terrible trade but he's still a good defenseman being put in a tough situation due to almost everyone sucking or hurt on the backline. Add that our forwards are overall a pretty poor group in our own zone and he's been getting exposed because yes he looks like a guy that is 31 and recovering from a broken foot with little time to train in the off season.

Past 3 years he has 2 awful years and last years bounce back and now he is back to awful.

 

[credulous]

oel wasn't good last year. he wasn't terrible and wasn't beat in obvious ways like he is this year but he really struggled to do the things you need to do to be a good nhl defender. he was the key reason the penalty kill was awful

fans just really wanted him to be good and made a ton of excuses for him