Car 52, Where Are You? Mike Green, Pt. 3

[Ajax1995]

And Trotz's resume is that much better when it counts? Come on, you're not bringing in Larry Robinson to tutor 52, it's Trotz.

Yeah Trotz hasn't coached any good defensemen in his career behind the bench. I'm sure them being good defensemen had absolutely nothing to do with him...

And when what counts? This team didn't even make the playoffs. They need to improve a decent amount IMO to even get to when it counts. Lets not put the cart before the horse here...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yeah Trotz hasn't coached any good defensemen in his career behind the bench. I'm sure them being good defensemen had absolutely nothing to do with him...

And when what counts? This team didn't even make the playoffs. They need to improve a decent amount IMO to even get to when it counts. Lets not put the cart before the horse here...

Stop being a sarcastic ass for a second. You don't think Suter and Weber are slightly (read a LOT) more talented than Green overall?

Trotz has benefitted from Poile doing what he always has done and that's drafting talented D. Not saying Trotz isn't a good coach or doesn't deserve credit, but come on, it's like you expect him to suddenly work miracles with Green. Trotz is going suddenly reverse Green's entire play, most importantly in his own D zone?

I'd love to hear Mothra's take on that.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Wait....if he DOES figure it out then won't that mean we can get more quality back for him anyhow at the TDL? Not sure I understand this.


If he does start playing great that's a pretty good problem to have isn't it?

He will either propel the team to make a run or we can trade him at the TDL.

Brian Campbell as a UFA brought in Steve Bernier (a 2nd year budding power forward at the time who was a 1st rounder) and a 1st

Green > Campbell especially if he plays at the top of his game.

Trading him now for "whatever" (I read that as Ribeiro like return) still doesn't make sense in that scenario

Trading him now can make sense if another top-4 D is coming back. I myself think that's doable now. Again 52 is my 3rd fav Cap, so nothing would make me happier if things suddenly clicked, but at 29, I think it's unlikely.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Wait....if he DOES figure it out then won't that mean we can get more quality back for him anyhow at the TDL? Not sure I understand this.

If he does figure it out, we'll be an easy playoff team, and playoff teams don't trade players like that at the deadline.

 

[Langway]

Let's be reality...If Trotz and his assistants aren't capable developers, the likes of which we haven't seen in over a decade, this team is ****ed.

You can't hype up youth at every turn only to have zero developmental focus. Maybe the staff won't be able to smoothe out everyone, and most likely not in one season, but they're pretty well ****ed given the way they typically draft if they can't significantly polish players up. There is talent and there is sense. The Caps have had plenty of talent, albeit declining lately, but not much sense.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The question remains, is a 29 year old injury prone player still a player who will develop much at this stage in his career?

 

[MrGone]

The question remains, is a 29 year old injury prone player still a player who will develop much at this stage in his career?

And 4x6.5 is way to much to find out. The team already lost to much value in holding on to him to long.

 

[Ajax1995]

If he regains form you want to pay $7 mil per for Green?

IMO it says a lot that for many the worst case scenario is Trotz is successful in turning Green back into a top defenseman again.

For me Trotz being successful in turning Green around is the best case scenario.

With such completely different views of the same situation, one that on the face of it has to be considered good for the Caps IMO, I don't really know what we have to talk about.

 

[Dream Big]

Just needs a better stick.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3914383

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

IMO it says a lot that for many the worst case scenario is Trotz is successful in turning Green back into a top defenseman again.

For me Trotz being successful in turning Green around is the best case scenario.

With such completely different views of the same situation, one that on the face of it has to be considered good for the Caps IMO, I don't really know what we have to talk about.

Even Green supporters like me are rightly gunshy at the thought of him playing one decent year and signing a painful extension. That's reality. Even if he goes back to his peak offensive numbers (which I doubt), paying him somewhere around $7 mil per isn't the best scenario for the Caps. Just my opinion. Now if he regains form and the Caps can get him a long term deal under $6 per, I'm happy.

 

[g00n]

I've said for a while I want to see Green return to form but I'm wary of his injury history. A long term deal seems incredibly risky. So best case scenario imo is he lights it up in his contract year and shows teams he can stay healthy, which boosts the return at the trade deadline. I think we expect to be a playoff team at the deadline regardless of Green's performance and management/ownership had better be looking long-term on this one or else they could wind up with Semin and Ribeiro type returns (zilch).

The alternate reality option is the new management team somehow puts together a roster and system that can protect Green while also allowing him to be productive, in which case I have no problem paying market value to keep him. Whether or not they can do that (or WANT to do it) is the question.

 

[msrulo]

I don't think Green is good enough to play for the NHL. If there was a chance to cheat on some deal, I would hope they sell him for a 2nd-3rd rate draft pick .

 

[RandyHolt]

I didn't think Sarge was good enough for the NHL and he just hoisted the cup

 

[Underpants2]

The Rangers played Brad Richards on the point for their PP. The Ranger fans seem to have soured on Dan Girardi a bit as well.

Do you think something around Green, and a conditional first for Girardi might work? The Rangers also moved a pick or two for St. Louis as well. They may want to start getting some picks back.

I would then go heavily after Strahlman.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

The Rangers played Brad Richards on the point for their PP. The Ranger fans seem to have soured on Dan Girardi a bit as well.

Do you think something around Green, and a conditional first for Girardi might work? The Rangers also moved a pick or two for St. Louis as well. They may want to start getting some picks back.

I would then go heavily after Strahlman.

Girardi was brutal in the parts of the series that I saw, which admittedly is not as much as I wanted. In Girardi I saw a guy who made terrible turnovers, got worked on the cycle, and had trouble clearing the puck. He also provided little to no offensive firepower. Three years ago I'd trip over myself to trade for him, but his play seems to have fallen off a cliff.

I'd still rather go after Fayne, but would be happy with Stralman as well.

 

[NeilYoung]

Girardi was brutal in the parts of the series that I saw, which admittedly is not as much as I wanted. In Girardi I saw a guy who made terrible turnovers, got worked on the cycle, and had trouble clearing the puck. He also provided little to no offensive firepower. Three years ago I'd trip over myself to trade for him, but his play seems to have fallen off a cliff.

I'd still rather go after Fayne, but would be happy with Stralman as well.

Stralman would be ideal he had a huge playoffs. He's definitely developed into a great player over the last few years.

No idea how much he's going to get but I'd go very hard after him. Second best D man on a finals team. Easily passed the eye test all playoffs and his advanced stats are crazy impressive

 

[g00n]

How many times have we trashed a guy in the playoffs and then only found out he was hurt when they announce surgery in the offseason? I wouldn't be surprised of some of these guys are seriously banged up.

 

[RandyHolt]

I wonder if players are more likely to be available / for less after an injury wrecked playoffs. Maybe its enough to convince a GM to trade a player he otherwise was not trading. Injury prone.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

How many times have we trashed a guy in the playoffs and then only found out he was hurt when they announce surgery in the offseason? I wouldn't be surprised of some of these guys are seriously banged up.

You may be right, but Girardi looked like someone stole his powers ala Space Jam.

 

[BTCG]

And? Are you kidding? Aside from that one year Backstrom has been the model of durability. Since 2007 Backstrom has missed 47 games, almost entirely due to that one injury. Green has missed 129 due to all sorts of injuries.

You can choose to believe it or not, but reputable sources have said Letang was shopped. Either way, I must not hold Letang in as high regard as you, I would of considered trading him even before the injuries. His play has fallen off and now that he's coming off a stroke it's going to be a tough sell.

Yes, because clearly Green is on the same planet as Crosby and Malkin, the fact that your bringing those two up is ridiculous.

Just a quick, drive-by reading—seems odd that Caps folk measure worth—in durability, rather than production.

 

[BTCG]

How many times have we trashed a guy in the playoffs and then only found out he was hurt when they announce surgery in the offseason? I wouldn't be surprised of some of these guys are seriously banged up.

Hey guy,

Not to disagree, as in most cases, you're quite right in what you're saying.

BUT: I did see an extraordinary man once, say in 2002/03, from memory, win both Olympic Gold and the Cup—on one-leg. He wore #19, I believe.

Never saw its equal. Amazing player. Believe he won the Selke, too, one season

 

[Xaroc]

I lurk a lot but I am on board with what Rouse is saying. I think the one thing Mike Green has never had since he has been here is a legitimate top 4 D partner (outside of when he played with Alzner maybe). My plan would be get him that partner, change the system so it doesn't involve getting rid of the puck so quickly, and see what happens. I still think he can be very effective with a better system and better defensive coaching in general.

 

[txpd]

Just a quick, drive-by reading—seems odd that Caps folk measure worth—in durability, rather than production.

not really. when attacking Mike Green, his production stats make that pretty hard. His durability is an easy mark.

When using durability as a reason to fail someone, you invite comparisons to other players

 

[DanTHEMan71]

I don't think Green is good enough to play for the NHL.

Well, you'd be the only person in the world who thinks that. Injuries aside, he's still one of the top offensive defenceman in the world.

 

[BTCG]

not really. when attacking Mike Green, his production stats make that pretty hard. His durability is an easy mark.

When using durability as a reason to fail someone, you invite comparisons to other players

Hey guy,

It was just an observation, perhaps particular to this thread.

I would note that PP specialist ( as GMGM used to call him)James Black and Mike Eagles, although not germane as to D, were durable.

But.... were they great talents? Not to me, anyways, although they were more consistent as to their play.

Perhaps, in #52's case, it's consistency, or rather the lack of it, that's the real mark, here?