Car 52, Where Are You? Mike Green, Pt. 3
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Capitlols
Historic Chokers
- Feb 9, 2010
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He's missed 25 games the past two years, including 13 in a shortened season, how in the world does that give reason to be encouraged? Aside from the groin he has a concussion history and his inability to protect himself, even after nine years, will lead to continued injuries.
Frankly, I think your luck stance is absolutely ridiculous. Luck favors the persistent. He's shown zero consistency over the past few years and there is no reason to believe he'll have luck on his side.
BrooklynCapsFan
No more choking!
And it remains unclear how many games he would have missed from his last concussion which happened days before the league took 3 weeks off.
That timing was lucky!
BobRouse
Registered User
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RE: Luck - Argue with the PDO guys not me. That is an advanced stat that measures "luck" and seems to be fairly good at it
Most all of those 13 games he missed from 12-13 were from the persistnet groin right? Then he got surgery and hasn't missed a game for that since.
Also...just so you know....in that same span of 130 games:
Letang missed 55
Malkin missed 39
Crosby missed 14 (Croz missed 101 games the 2 years before that when Green missed 83..some due to suspension)
So should Pitt trade all those guys due to injury woes????
Capitlols
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The groin isn't his only problem. He missed 3 games due to a lower body injury, don't recall what exactly it was, and of course he missed games due to "head" injuries this past season. He is accumulating various injuries beyond his groin that are largely a product of his inability to protect himself.
What relevance do Crosby and Malkin have here and...just so you know... the Pens did explore trading Letang from reports.
I'm perfectly fine keeping Green and seeing how he does under a coach known for getting a lot out of his blueliners. If come deadline time things aren't looking better deal him then. IMO what he would return now isn't going to be significantly different from what he would return then given his recent level of play.
Green is in no way an addition by subtraction type of player IMO and the best case scenario is Trotz is able to get a lot more out of him that we have seen since Green's glory days for the most part.
Green is in no way an addition by subtraction type of player IMO and the best case scenario is Trotz is able to get a lot more out of him that we have seen since Green's glory days for the most part.
BobRouse
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Backstrom missed more games due to concussion than Green has over their careers.
There were rumors Pens were shopping Letang but nothing confirmed at all. There are always rumors.
If you feel that Green is "frail" and "Injury prone" then you must think that Malkin, Crosby and Letang are as well.
Capitlols
Historic Chokers
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And? Are you kidding? Aside from that one year Backstrom has been the model of durability. Since 2007 Backstrom has missed 47 games, almost entirely due to that one injury. Green has missed 129 due to all sorts of injuries.
You can choose to believe it or not, but reputable sources have said Letang was shopped. Either way, I must not hold Letang in as high regard as you, I would of considered trading him even before the injuries. His play has fallen off and now that he's coming off a stroke it's going to be a tough sell.
Yes, because clearly Green is on the same planet as Crosby and Malkin, the fact that your bringing those two up is ridiculous.
strungout
Professional Killer
This is pretty much how I feel.
If Oates and Mafki had returned...they should have traded him at the draft or whenever. But now...under Trotz...I think you have to give it a shot. Unless they can blown away by an offer at the draft.
It'll be interesting to see what they do.
BobRouse
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Kris Letang was a Norris runner up the year before last. How could you not value a player like that? He's young. He'll bounce back and has his best years ahead of him.
Backstrom missed more games due to CONCUSSION than Green. Most of Green's missed games came in 2 seasons (80 of them) due to his groin which he missed another 10-13 games in 12-13.
The point is that there are alot of players with health concerns. Its a rough sport and not every player is Alexander Ovechkin.
What is your take on Green:?
1- Dump him for whatever. Addition by subtraction
2- Trade him if the offer is fair. If not revisit at trade deadline. (Brent Burns comparison)
3. Keep him
Clearly its not 3 so it has to be 1 or 2. Which is it?
Capitlols
Historic Chokers
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Even Pens fans have been souring on Letang from what I've seen. His game isn't what it used to be and he just had a stroke. He's certainly a player that would warrant trade considerations, though it will be tough with that recent health scare.
The point should be Green's had significant groin issues AND concussion issues(along with other problems). Which makes him far less reliable and valuable than someone like Backstrom.
Health is only a part of it for me. I have seen very little development in Green's D game and when he's not producing offensively he's a liability. Coupled with the health issues I would move on from him. I don't want to hold on to a false hope that he'll return to PPG form.
Trade him. Not for scraps, get a decent pick/prospect and move on. Think the Ribeiro deal, can they? It remains to be seen.
BobRouse
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1. Letang wasn't what he used to be?? In 2012-2013 he was a Norris runner up! He had 1 bad year due to an unfortunate injury. Pens fans are like other fans in that they turn first on their coach and then on their best offensive dman. Its a proven formula for fan insanity.
2. If you do a Ribeiro type deal you will get ripped off. Thats a trash deal for a player like Green.
Green is a much higher valued commodity than Ribeiro was given the type of player he is...puck moving Dman..and that fact that he is one of the BEST puck moving dmen.
Salary cap is going up so there will be more teams in the mix for a trade given the limited UFA dmen pool. These two things will drive prices up.
So you'd take a good prospect and 2nd round pick???? Thats a sucker trade to be honest.
Brent Burns in a VERY comprable situation (sans salary cap going up and limited UFA pool) got Setoguchi (at the time very good young roster player)/Coyle (very good prospect)/late 1st.
Trading him for anything less would be getting fleeced.
There is a huge difference between:
Eakin+2nd
vs
Setogucci+Coyle+1st
Coyle was a better prospect than Eakin.
1st round pick is better than a 2nd.
Setogucci is much better than nothing else. (again at the time of the trade)
I don't even think Milbury would get fleeced along these lines....
Also Brian Campbell brought back Steve Bernier (at the time top young budding player) and a 1st at the TDL. (pending UFA)
Dan Boyle brought in Carle+good prospect+mid round pick (Boyle had many years remaining on his contract)
Andrew frikin MacDonald brought back a 2nd + 3rd at the TDL (pending UFA). That is closer to Eakin and 2nd than anything else...and MacDonald isn't even in the same hemisphere as Green is. The guy got blown up and is a terrible possession player among other things.
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If all they can get for Green is a B prospect and a 2nd rounder I would rather watch him play all season under Trotz and possibly walk for nothing.
The Caps need to add a top 4 blueliner not subtract one. And the current UFA/trade market doesn't look nearly good enough IMO to think it is realistic they would be able to add 2 after getting rid of Green for that return.
Marshall
A ribbon reflector
I'm coming around to this position. It's hard to tell how the defense in general will be after the bizarre coaching of last year. Maybe Green can regain form. Maybe he'll have a contract year.
If Green does return to form - do the Caps re-sign him? Cross that bridge when they get to it, I guess.
Langway
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Yeah, from an asset management standpoint it would be in their interest not to act as though they must move the player for the best offer regardless. The only way that should be their operating logic is if there are behind the scenes issues and/or the player wants out.
If they can get a Burns type return then go for it but the upside in improving Green fundamentally likely outweighs the upside in a couple second rounders or something. Even if he ultimately walks I think the short-term performance will outweigh that in their estimation. Perhaps MacLellan will think longer-term and will look to shake up the roster via moving Green but it makes more sense to trade Laich/Brouwer/Johansson when it comes to trades for the simple sake of change.
If they can get a Burns type return then go for it but the upside in improving Green fundamentally likely outweighs the upside in a couple second rounders or something. Even if he ultimately walks I think the short-term performance will outweigh that in their estimation. Perhaps MacLellan will think longer-term and will look to shake up the roster via moving Green but it makes more sense to trade Laich/Brouwer/Johansson when it comes to trades for the simple sake of change.
BobRouse
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Couldn't agree more with everything you said here.
At this point only the true haters are blind to this. Green has significant value whether they like him or not.
I hear alot of people ripping on McPhee, for good reason, for his lack of "asset management" and then a bunch turn around and want Green moved for a "Ribeiro-like return"
txpd
Registered User
interesting question. if green stays and flourishes under trotz, he would likely have returned to his spot as a primary cog in the team wheel. would you really want to trade him for futures if the team is in the playoffs?
if your ultimate position is that green should go no matter what because he gets hurt, then keep him and see if he is great again and let him walk for nothing. if he fails to be good again, the return wont matter much anyway.
one more questions. ive asked this question before. how many playoff games has mike green missed in his career?
if your ultimate position is that green should go no matter what because he gets hurt, then keep him and see if he is great again and let him walk for nothing. if he fails to be good again, the return wont matter much anyway.
one more questions. ive asked this question before. how many playoff games has mike green missed in his career?
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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If he can't stay healthy next season, his value is shot anyway. Hell his value now may be shot NOW, but let's see what happens.
I think they move him this offseason, or they move him at the deadline if he plays well enough, but the team still struggles. What you can't do again is piss him away for a playoff series like Semin. If he's not moved this offseason, I hope other D (either already in the system, or acquired this offseason) play well enough that his movement won't hurt that much. I don't see Trotz having much impact on Green now sadly. He is what he is. Hurts to say that about one of my favorite players.
What I fear is he plays better and the Caps resign him to a huge deal and it's back to injury-prone and boneheaded play after a contract year. Hopefully GMBM is more forward thinking.
I think they move him this offseason, or they move him at the deadline if he plays well enough, but the team still struggles. What you can't do again is piss him away for a playoff series like Semin. If he's not moved this offseason, I hope other D (either already in the system, or acquired this offseason) play well enough that his movement won't hurt that much. I don't see Trotz having much impact on Green now sadly. He is what he is. Hurts to say that about one of my favorite players.
What I fear is he plays better and the Caps resign him to a huge deal and it's back to injury-prone and boneheaded play after a contract year. Hopefully GMBM is more forward thinking.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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That's some serious speculation. Unless you're taking calls for the Cap's GM, not sure how you can be sure of this.
BobRouse
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As opposed to pretty much everything that is spouted off around here by everyone...?
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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Some are just WAY over the top though. Opinion STRONGLY presented as fact annoys me.
As a Green fan, given his injuries and his cap hit (before even looking at his regression on ice), I wouldn't be all that surprised if there were few suitors looking to acquire him.
g00n's view that you can write off Green's possession numbers because he was an offensive defenseman playing in an offensive role is very wrong. There are a lot of offensive defensemen (on my phone so I can't give examples) who post pretty bad possession numbers, because they tend to get pinned in their own zones all the time. Green's extremely consistent, and consistently above-his-team (see the Japers Rink article) possession numbers really are very significant. There are other reasons to trade him, of course, even with his possession ability accounted for, so you don't have to write them off to take a pro-trade stance.
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