GDT: Caps vs Pens 7:30pm

Holtbyisms

Matt Irwin is a legit talent
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Our defensemen dominated puck possession all night for the Caps..our forwards didnt have crap for possession .. especially our star forwards..seriously it was pathetic. What are our defensemen supposed to do? Caps problem isn't the defensemen.
Watch Carlson try to skate up ice, turn the puck over and just straight give up, controller disconnected, here on the 4th goal. Inexcusable for an assistant captain and veteran. He was simply not good tonight except a few rushes in the first period. That said, the whole team was bad, so whatever... But he was definitely one of the worst players on the ice tonight especially considering bang for the buck.

 
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Capitals40

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Watch Carlson try to skate up ice, turn the puck over and just straight give up, controller disconnected, here on the 4th goal. Inexcusable for an assistant captain and veteran. He was simply not good tonight except a few rushes in the first period. That said, the whole team was bad, so whatever... But he was definitely one of the worst players on the ice tonight especially considering bang for the buck.


I knew someone would say this about that play. We were down 3 with 3 minutes left, he obviously was taking a chance, nothing to lose. I'm one of his biggest critics. This game was in no way on him. Ovie, Backy, Kuzy, Oshie were all way worse.
 
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SherVaughn30

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Watch Carlson try to skate up ice, turn the puck over and just straight give up, controller disconnected, here on the 4th goal. Inexcusable for an assistant captain and veteran. He was simply not good tonight except a few rushes in the first period. That said, the whole team was bad, so whatever... But he was definitely one of the worst players on the ice tonight especially considering bang for the buck.


Carlson got aggressive, but where was his teammates supporting him up the ice? I just saw others sort of floating waiting for something to happen. To end it, Lindgren getting scored here was poor goaltending! He got beat near post. Two Caps players trailed but were converging on the Pen shooter. Lindgren needed to play the %'s and force the shooter to shoot far-post since Reilly Smith is a left-hand shooter.
 
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SherVaughn30

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I knew someone would say this about that play. We were down 3 with 3 minutes left, he obviously was taking a chance, nothing to lose. I'm one of his biggest critics. This game was in no way on him. Ovie, Backy, Kuzy, Oshie were all way worse.
Ovie at least hit some ppl, had a breakaway and was set for some one-timers but received bad passes. Backy, Kuzy and Oshie were almost non-existent. Oshie actually had a good scoring chance in the bumper spot but shot low completely wide. Ovie being the oldest player on the team showed a better effort than the other 3 combined!
 

WanderingCapsFan

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Same team (already one of the oldest in the league). One year older. Several confirmed slackers. Playing a highly questionable Penguins team.

And 4-0.

On the positive side, only one way to go from here. (maybe)
 

Holtbyisms

Matt Irwin is a legit talent
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Carlson got aggressive, but where was his teammates supporting him up the ice? I just saw others sort of floating waiting for something to happen. To end it, Lindgren getting scored here was poor goaltending! He got beat near post. Two Caps players trailed but were converging on the Pen shooter. Lindgren needed to play the %'s and force the shooter to shoot far-post since Reilly Smith is a left-hand shooter.
:facepalm:
 

SherVaughn30

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I have to be honest regarding Lindgren. When he played games for the Blues, Berube coached teams played tight in their own end. Lindgren had some very good numbers in a small sample size. Since Lindgren has signed with us, he hasn't been as good of a goalie. I'm inclined to think it's partially on him and partially on goalie coach Scott Murray(yes I'm back on his case again). I still see some inconsistencies in Lindgren's game.
 
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SherVaughn30

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Don't give that dumb smiley! Look at the vid clip again! Carlson got aggressive and two Pens quickly converged on him. Why, because the 2 Caps forwards were not skating nor supporting Carlson, which allowed the 2 Pens players to be very aggressive on the puck carrier. Carlson was skating, but the other 4 Caps players were standing watching. Carbery wants 5-man unit support in all 3 zones. Caps didn't do any of that after the 1st period.
 

TheSmokingMan

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While this game was pretty ugly, I think it's a little early to claim the sky is falling. I thought the 1st period was pretty well played and the passing seemed a lot better than later in the game. After the 1st period, the team looked flat, but I think it was more because they were having trouble connecting their passes and as a result couldn't keep any sustained possession. I don't think they sustained a good forecheck either. The Pens never really looked pressured in their own end. I'm more inclined to think this is just growing pains of adapting to a new system. Clearly Carbery has some work to do to get them playing the system. The team needs a clear identity going forward.
 

SherVaughn30

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While this game was pretty ugly, I think it's a little early to claim the sky is falling. I thought the 1st period was pretty well played and the passing seemed a lot better than later in the game. After the 1st period, the team looked flat, but I think it was more because they were having trouble connecting their passes and as a result couldn't keep any sustained possession. I don't think they sustained a good forecheck either. The Pens never really looked pressured in their own end. I'm more inclined to think this is just growing pains of adapting to a new system. Clearly Carbery has some work to do to get them playing the system. The team needs a clear identity going forward.
It was almost like the team sort of gave up after not scoring any goals in the 1st period. The players showed a lack of trust and patience in themselves and in system.
 
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Langway

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This too old of team is just a lame excuse.
It's not the age so much as the IQ, limited athleticism and mental fortitude. Or just plain laziness in some senses (often from 92/74/8). That coupled with an equally limited supporting cast that doesn't meaningfully provide an alternative route to success leaves them with little identifiable strength. A veteran team with no mental advantage? Good luck.

I suspect Carbery will often be grasping at straws and MacLellan will need to work closely helping to secure solutions and being proactive rather than passively resigned. Even if it's a more subtle change like calling up HHA it's something to perhaps build on. Johansen, as much as they may like him, is not a player that's going to build up a meaningful role. That's a big puzzler for me right off the bat, which makes me question their judgement. I get cap management and asset management but they don't have the room to be cute re: their best 18 skaters on a given night. Any slight improvement can help at this fragile initial stage. I'd rather quickly also contemplate putting Mantha on waivers to pave the way for Miro. Any element of Give-a-f*** would be welcome and they certainly know where Mantha comes in on that scale.

There's ample opportunity up for grabs and Carbery needs to leverage it to strengthen internal competition, particularly up front. He can't afford to coddle the vets. He's got to try to manufacture some killers among the supporting cast if nothing else. But it's just it, he's got to create them because there are no naturals waiting in the wings to pick up the slack. Until there's more of that mentality at work fully invested they're likely competitively done for. MacLellan may rather quickly need to make a clear point, even if it's just Mantha on the margins.

If there's not that sort of no non-sense approach they may never get traction at this stage. Patience is needed and it is a process but they can't afford to just assume it's going to happen for them. They've got to work at it and be inexhaustable. Carbery will need to firmly grasp who can be relied upon and who can't and how to work that delicate line. Again, not a wealth of alternatives and unfortunately this player leadership group may no longer be capable of that kind of competitive tonesetting. It's a group that's been set up for an even more daunting task than past seasons with time's passage doing them no favors. With any other organization you'd say there are some pretty poor wagers being placed. Their hands have been tied to a degree but they did have some options which they--for whatever reason--refused. If they're again equally easily resigned it should give off all sorts of warning signs about big picture direction.
 
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SherVaughn30

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It's not the age so much as the IQ, limited athleticism and mental fortitude. Or just plain laziness in some senses (often from 92/74/8). That coupled with an equally limited supporting cast that doesn't meaningfully provide an alternative route to success leaves them with little identifiable strength. A veteran team with no mental advantage? Good luck.

I suspect Carbery will often be grasping at straws and MacLellan will need to work closely helping to secure solutions and being proactive rather than passively resigned. Even if it's a more subtle change like calling up HHA it's something to perhaps build on. Johansen, as much as they may like him, is not a player that's going to build up a meaningful role. That's a big puzzler for me right off the bat, which makes me question their judgement. I get cap management and asset management but they don't have the room to be cute re: their best 18 skaters on a given night. Any slight improvement can help at this fragile initial stage. I'd rather quickly also contemplate putting Mantha on waivers to pave the way for Miro. Any element of Give-a-f*** would be welcome and they certainly know where Mantha comes in on that scale.

There's ample opportunity up for grabs and Carbery needs to leverage it to strengthen internal competition, particularly up front. He can't afford to coddle the vets. He's got to try to manufacture some killers among the supporting cast if nothing else. But it's just it, he's got to create them because there are no naturals waiting in the wings to pick up the slack. Until there's more of that mentality at work fully invested they're likely competitively done for. MacLellan may rather quickly need to make a clear point, even if it's just Mantha on the margins.

If there's not that sort of no non-sense approach they may never get traction at this stage. Patience is needed and it is a process but they can't afford to just assume it's going to happen for them. They've got to work at it and be inexhaustable. Carbery will need to firmly grasp who can be relied upon and who can't and how to work that delicate line. Again, not a wealth of alternatives and unfortunately this player leadership group may no longer be capable of that kind of competitive tonesetting. It's a group that's been set up for an even more daunting task than past seasons with time's passage doing them no favors. With any other organization you'd say there are some pretty poor wagers being placed. Their hands have been tied to a degree but they did have some options which they--for whatever reason--refused. If they're again equally easily resigned it should give off all sorts of warning signs about big picture direction.
You can be a slower skating team and still beat the faster team with hard work, effort to keep your feet moving, using short quick passes using a triangular formation(to give each other support) and will. It's ice hockey and nobody should be floating/standing around at the NHL level. Kings won 2 Cups this way with Coach Sutter. Sutter had a response to a reporter one time when he was asked about being a slower team. Sutter responded by saying that your opponent can't skate as fast as the puck! You make the puck go on ice faster than the opponents skating, then you solve how to counter a faster skating team. Carbery wants this team to be a skating team with 5-man support units in all 3 zones. This can be done with an older team, as the Pens have proven that with Mike Sullivan.
 

Roshi

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Welcome to Washington Father Time. We have known for a long time you are coming, but it still feels a little like i was not fully prepared for this.

As one of the most optimistics in this forum for the past years ill obviously give them few more games but if we look this old and tired and bad in the opening night, im not sure how much more optimism i can rally to back up a 82 game season :) please prove me wrong next game… please. I just paid a fortune for the game package for the season!

The ”leading group” and special teams lost their battle to Pens 4-0. Others were.. somewhat fine. So you know what needs to happen.
 

Capitals40

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You can be a slower skating team and still beat the faster team with hard work, effort to keep your feet moving, using short quick passes using a triangular formation(to give each other support) and will. It's ice hockey and nobody should be floating/standing around at the NHL level. Kings won 2 Cups this way with Coach Sutter. Sutter had a response to a reporter one time when he was asked about being a slower team. Sutter responded by saying that your opponent can't skate as fast as the puck! You make the puck go on ice faster than the opponents skating, then you solve how to counter a faster skating team. Carbery wants this team to be a skating team with 5-man support units in all 3 zones. This can be done with an older team, as the Pens have proven that with Mike Sullivan.

To a certain extent, but it is a very different NHL than when the Kings won it. Much more speed in the league and different style of play. Pens didnt make the playoffs last season. Chicago was a faster team against the Pens the other night
 

PlushMinus

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As I said earlier in this thread if Carbery fails it likely isn’t on him. It’s most likely on the roster as contructed. We can’t evaluate until the team has more time to learn a new system but people shouldn’t be shocked if the team struggles.
Yes it's kind of weird to see all the "sudden disappointment". I thought up until a few short weeks ago the general concensus was that this team was going to struggle. Then there were some preseason games where they looked good and people just....raised their expectations?
 

HTFN

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The thing that bugs me about Carlson is that he’s not incapable of being better. I’ve defended him through one or two postseasons because he was clearly injured and playing through something

But his slow, lazy “I’ll get to this puck right before my opponent and make a zero-control slap pass” manner of taking the puck out of the defensive zone drives me f***ing crazy, like he’s savoring those lazy moments just before he has to do something instead of busting ass and then resting after. They straight up lose zone possessions on those extra seconds, and it drives me wild.
 
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PlushMinus

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I have to be honest regarding Lindgren. When he played games for the Blues, Berube coached teams played tight in their own end. Lindgren had some very good numbers in a small sample size. Since Lindgren has signed with us, he hasn't been as good of a goalie. I'm inclined to think it's partially on him and partially on goalie coach Scott Murray(yes I'm back on his case again). I still see some inconsistencies in Lindgren's game.
So you're pinning this loss on Lindgren and Carberry?

No criticism of the forwards or D? They had 3 PP's and put ONE shot on Jarry.

All up they had 19 shots on goal. I think tonight was a poor showing for them as a team. Let's not try and blame the backup goalie and a coach in his first NHL game. Seems pretty harsh.

Edit: Lindgren not Lindberg - oops
 
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SherVaughn30

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To a certain extent, but it is a very different NHL than when the Kings won it. Much more speed in the league and different style of play. Pens didnt make the playoffs last season. Chicago was a faster team against the Pens the other night
Faster/younger, but Pens had a 2-0 lead on Hawks and lost 4-2(4th one was an empty netter).
 

Ovechkins Wodka

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Who made the lines and thought Mantha on the 4th line was a good idea. If Carberry hands already tied to GMBM lines. Its not a good sign if hes forced to play these washed players.
 

RedRocking

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Yes it's kind of weird to see all the "sudden disappointment". I thought up until a few short weeks ago the general concensus was that this team was going to struggle. Then there were some preseason games where they looked good and people just....raised their expectations?
Yea, wow, I can’t believe people are still going - it’s even getting late here out west. It’s one game.

I’m not sure what people expect from this season. IMHO best cast scenario is a bubble (outside at that) playoff team. If we can get Ovi his 30-40 goals, while still getting ~ top 12 pick, that’s still probably the best way to move forward into the next era.

Of course we don’t want to watch miserable hockey all year. I want to see the younger guys take some strides - IOW an indication that we’ve actually drafted some NHL talent the past 5 years. If CMM remains more assertive, shooting the puck (like on that move when hit the post), he could have a breakout year. Maybe Miro gets called up for a look at some point.

Anyways, the D-pairs are all messed up right now. Everything starts with them on the breakout, and ends with them gapping up on D. None of them looked comfortable. LuJo ain’t it. So either they mix them up (and hopefully try HHA) or they take time to gel.

The Kuzy that was flying around in the 3rd is what this team needs out of him every shift. I hope Carbs can lay into him a bit to get something better out of him. If not, move Strome to the top 6. And generally, just hope Carbs is able to adjust and show that he can be a capable NHL coach. Have some patience, time will tell on a number of fronts.
 
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Ovechkins Wodka

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If we are going to suck I would play all the kids. I hope we have line changes next game. Make CMM a center. Bench Backstrom waive Mantha. Play Protas. Carlson and Sandin should not be a pair again

Carlson Fever
Sandin Jensen
TVR and rotate the kids

I would think about trading Oshie and Carlson if a contender is desperate
 

SherVaughn30

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So you're pinning this loss on Lindberg and Carberry?

No criticism of the forwards or D? They had 3 PP's and put ONE shot on Jarry.

All up they had 19 shots on goal. I think tonight was a poor showing for them as a team. Let's not try and blame the backup goalie and a coach in his first NHL game. Seems pretty harsh.
I never blamed Carbery. All I said that he's a rookie coach up against Mike Sullivan and Sullivan out coached him in the game. I think others would agree that some of the players in the lineup were questionable as were the line combos. Coach makes the final decision on the roster lineup for the given game.

Partial blame on Lindgren(get his name right!). The 2 PP goals from the Pens were PK breakdowns(Lindgren was caught a bit moving a bit too much), but I did not like how Lindgren played the 4th Pens goals. He was beat short-side or some ppl might view it as near-post, from the faceoff dot, Pens forward coming down the LW. Reilly Smith is a left-handed shooter. For a left-hander it should be harder to score near-post if the goalie is correctly playing the angle. Lindgren should have played the %'s and forced Reilly Smith to shoot far-side(far-post) on Lindgren's stick-side. There was a Caps D-man within a couple strides so Reilly Smith shot to what Lindgren gave him. Lindgren cheated and that is why he was beat near-post the from the faceoff dot.

I'm a goalie guru, so I point out goalie stuff more so than others. When you lose 4-0 the blame goes on the coaching and players, not the goalie. I'm critical of Lindgren bcuz BMac gave him a 3 year $1.1 million per year contract, so I expect more from Lindgren and the fact Charlie has not played as well as I expect when we signed him after leaving the Blues. If Lindgren can't step it up a little and improve from last season, then might as well go cheaper with Hunter Shepard who closer to $300k less in used cap space.
Yea, wow, I can’t believe people are still going - it’s even getting late here out west. It’s one game.

I’m not sure what people expect from this season. IMHO best cast scenario is a bubble (outside at that) playoff team. If we can get Ovi his 30-40 goals, while still getting ~ top 12 pick, that’s still probably the best way to move forward into the next era.

Of course we don’t want to watch miserable hockey all year. I want to see the younger guys take some strides - IOW an indication that we’ve actually drafted some NHL talent the past 5 years. If CMM remains more assertive, shooting the puck (like on that move when hit the post), he could have a breakout year. Maybe Miro gets called up for a look at some point.

Anyways, the D-pairs are all messed up right now. Everything starts with them on the breakout, and ends with them gapping up on D. None of them looked comfortable. LuJo ain’t it. So either they mix them up (and hopefully try HHA) or they take time to gel.

The Kuzy that was flying around in the 3rd is what this team needs out of him every shift. I hope Carbs can lay into him a bit to get something better out of him. If not, move Strome to the top 6. And generally, just hope Carbs is able to adjust and show that he can be a capable NHL coach. Have some patience, time will tell on a number of fronts.
Mantha/LuJo should be scratched. Strome should be playing with OV and move Backstrom to 3C. Carlson/Sandin needs to split up. Make opponents have to worry about 2 D pairs having an offensive threat. You shouldn't put your two best offensive scoring D-men in one basket unless it's a PP or down a goal late in the 3rd. Put Ovie/Wilson on the same line again. This might be a reach, but put CCM @ 2C and Kuzy on the Wing.

It will take 5-10 games for the players to really start developing some chemistry. For PP1, it's still the same dang thing with Backstrom/Kuzy near the boards and neither shooting the puck! Put Strome on PP1 and either decide to take Backstrom/Kuzy off of it!
 
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SherVaughn30

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If we are going to suck I would play all the kids. I hope we have line changes next game. Make CMM a center. Bench Backstrom waive Mantha. Play Protas. Carlson and Sandin should not be a pair again

Carlson Fever
Sandin Jensen
TVR and rotate the kids

I would think about trading Oshie and Carlson if a contender is desperate
Oshie still has heart, but all his injuries I don't know that he has any trade value left. Carlson still has pretty good trade value, but if you trade him are ya gonna pass on the offensive D duties to Sandin?

Benching Backstrom I disagree with. Coming off that hip surfacing surgery he should be playing 3C and nothing higher. Playing him 1C will be useless against most other opponents.

CCM to me could be the Caps 2nd best Center behind Strome. Backstrom offensive touch is weak right now and Kuzy, while talented is on/off still.
 
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YippieKaey

How you gonna do hockey like that?
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Obviously not a good game but as someone who's been quite down on the team i weirdly found a lot of positives:

The offensive system seems pretty good, some good chances and there was good movement, unfortunately the puck didn't go in but that happens sometimes. Could have had at least 3 goals through periods 1 and 2.

McMichael looks like he belongs in the top 6 and the jurassic first line was alright.

At least 2 of the goals were caused by individual mistakes which can be explained by off-season rust.

But of course, also some negatives:

Way too sloppy in the d-zone, Carberry better have the team practicing own zone puck management/breakout today.

Kuzy has the skillset of Erik Karlsson but the mindset of Anthony Mantha. Im done with that guy and his slow processor/lack of edge.

Overall though, for being a 4-0 loss it wasn't the worst of games.
 

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