Misery74
Registered User
- Nov 20, 2017
- 2,237
- 2,125
This. Don’t we have to solve this problem prior to Patches coming back? Simply waiving Mantha isn’t enough.
Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2023 Off-season
- Thread starter hockeykicker
- Start date
- Status
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,414
- 9,129
Soon is a very relative term. Mantha may not be a malcontent but it's nonetheless a problem in terms of cash vs. return. They'll also need to find some way of keeping him on the reservation mentally if he's often going to be sitting. There's room for him to earn his way back in (likely Phillips or Protas) but they're going to want a resolution, perhaps sooner than later. It's just not working. He said the right things. He's still fine defensively. But there's just no second effort and likely never will be. Maybe if one of his many chances went in he would have perked up further. Him sitting tonight is telling.
It may not be holding any moves back today--certainly there's no rush if teams are asking for their prime prospects--but it would be advantageous if by Dec/Jan they're banking space heading into the deadline. That offers a lot of flexibility in an environment where a lot of teams will need to be dollar-in, dollar-out and/or need third-party brokers. Paying up now to a certain extent could lessen costs down the road as they may no longer require retention. It could allow them to be among the suitors for Patrick Kane or something if and when he's ready.
If this team is engaged and playing to their potential they don't have a lot of glaring needs. They still likely need a game-breaker but in terms of more weak links they're probably fine barring injury. They do have a variety of functional depth in Hershey. I'm not sure there's a market for Mantha at his full cap hit so they may have to get creative. But the clock is definitely ticking here as he falls further down the depth chart.
It may not be holding any moves back today--certainly there's no rush if teams are asking for their prime prospects--but it would be advantageous if by Dec/Jan they're banking space heading into the deadline. That offers a lot of flexibility in an environment where a lot of teams will need to be dollar-in, dollar-out and/or need third-party brokers. Paying up now to a certain extent could lessen costs down the road as they may no longer require retention. It could allow them to be among the suitors for Patrick Kane or something if and when he's ready.
If this team is engaged and playing to their potential they don't have a lot of glaring needs. They still likely need a game-breaker but in terms of more weak links they're probably fine barring injury. They do have a variety of functional depth in Hershey. I'm not sure there's a market for Mantha at his full cap hit so they may have to get creative. But the clock is definitely ticking here as he falls further down the depth chart.
hockeykicker
Moderator
- Dec 3, 2014
- 35,184
- 12,789
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 64,676
- 19,518
SecretaryofDefense5
Registered User
Y’all are talking about spending capital to a jettison a player when the only player I would pay to get off the team is Kuznetsov. Dude doesn’t want to be here. You don’t want that in the locker room.
Marshall
A ribbon reflector
minigeedeetee: Caps host CLB, last preseason game.
- Jensen had a real good offensive pinch, but didn't immediately get back to the blue line and it gave up the 2 on 1 where Keumpfel made the flash glove save.
- The Caps are owning the possession battle in the 2nd.
- Jensen had a real good offensive pinch, but didn't immediately get back to the blue line and it gave up the 2 on 1 where Keumpfel made the flash glove save.
- The Caps are owning the possession battle in the 2nd.
Marshall
A ribbon reflector
Oshbomb on Fantilli.
Last edited:
PlayersLtd
Registered User
- Mar 6, 2019
- 1,252
- 1,526
Victoria Royals fan here. I see that Phillips has performed well in pre season and most have him penciled in the roster. Is he a lock for opening night and do you guys feel like he'll be able to hold the spot down?
Hard guy not to pull for, had a fantastic jr career here in Victoria.
Hard guy not to pull for, had a fantastic jr career here in Victoria.
Hivemind
We're Touched
I think most of us are hoping he'll make the roster and be a regular in the top 12. That being said, the team is going to need to pull off some shenanigans to fit under the salary cap, and even with Phillips being the cheapest option at $775K, there's a chance they run a 12F or 13F roster to start the season to fit things.
(Protas is still waivers exempt tho, so if there's a surprise waive to maintain cap compliance - my money is on it being Protas)
PlayersLtd
Registered User
- Mar 6, 2019
- 1,252
- 1,526
Well here's hoping that he's the odd man IN and that his line can generate offence for you. Would be a great story if he carves out a spot and he'll become a fan favourite pretty quickly. 'll be watching more Caps games because of him.
Good luck this season.
Re: Mantha —
Someone (player) will become a malcontent, somewhere around the league. Soon. It’s only a matter of time.
That’s when they may be able to trade Mantha. Take someone else’s headache, but perhaps a better player.
That’s all assuming said malcontent has only 1yr left (or maybe 2, but would need to be a significant on ice upgrade to take that).
Someone (player) will become a malcontent, somewhere around the league. Soon. It’s only a matter of time.
That’s when they may be able to trade Mantha. Take someone else’s headache, but perhaps a better player.
That’s all assuming said malcontent has only 1yr left (or maybe 2, but would need to be a significant on ice upgrade to take that).
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,414
- 9,129
Vancouver and Winnipeg come to mind as potentially unstable situations. Hellebuyck being on record as not wanting to re-sign and how the whole Wheeler/Bowness situation ended last season makes you wonder if they hit a rough patch. Similarly, Vancouver seems to have more desperation than most. Most teams are I think pretty realistic about expectations, their placement and process so I wouldn't count on that as a direct solution. More likely is finding a rebuilding team to dump him on, that maybe would be able to showcase him and flip him for yet more assets. (I do also wonder about NYR under Lavi and some of the unequivocal adjustments some of their key players are going to need to make...)
I have faith Carbery will do his very best keeping the ship headed in the right direction but there are a lot of old dogs that need to learn new tricks (esp. defensively where there's also an athleticism+IQ issue for some). Grinders like Malenstyn & Protas are fine depth pieces but won't provide a significant defensive boost. Between Carlson, Sandin, Kuznetsov and a couple of relatively soft scoring-line pieces like CMM & Phillips I'm not sure the mix is balanced or structured enough. It's not like Strome & Milano are defensive studs either and Oshie has definite pace limitations. If Jensen, Fehervary & TVR aren't very solid on the back-end they seem like they'll struggle to against most faster teams.
I like some of the concepts they're absorbing offensively but they're bound to have their breakdowns. It's just going to be living on that razor's edge and hoping the opposition doesn't execute. I would have liked to have seen Miro in this last pre-season game just to see in a simulated Real game how he'd fare, even in a depth role. IMO they could use his grit on a scoring line. I know they like Protas but I'm skeptical he can do enough offensively or fully step up generally in a more prominent role. And it's still much too early to tell if Phillips will work out or not.
I have faith Carbery will do his very best keeping the ship headed in the right direction but there are a lot of old dogs that need to learn new tricks (esp. defensively where there's also an athleticism+IQ issue for some). Grinders like Malenstyn & Protas are fine depth pieces but won't provide a significant defensive boost. Between Carlson, Sandin, Kuznetsov and a couple of relatively soft scoring-line pieces like CMM & Phillips I'm not sure the mix is balanced or structured enough. It's not like Strome & Milano are defensive studs either and Oshie has definite pace limitations. If Jensen, Fehervary & TVR aren't very solid on the back-end they seem like they'll struggle to against most faster teams.
I like some of the concepts they're absorbing offensively but they're bound to have their breakdowns. It's just going to be living on that razor's edge and hoping the opposition doesn't execute. I would have liked to have seen Miro in this last pre-season game just to see in a simulated Real game how he'd fare, even in a depth role. IMO they could use his grit on a scoring line. I know they like Protas but I'm skeptical he can do enough offensively or fully step up generally in a more prominent role. And it's still much too early to tell if Phillips will work out or not.
Evgeny Oliker
Registered User
So is McMichael making the team?
HTFN
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2009
- 12,270
- 10,920
Protas looks like he still wants to play center, he keeps finding himself in the "right" position that actually turns out to be the wrong position because Dowd is also right there and I'm not sure wing has clicked for him yet (but it's a great way to learn that "take control and play with power" lesson Ovechkin wants him to work on)
The middle 6 needs one additional weapon, would be really interesting if Pacioretty comes back healthy but until then one of Milano, CMM, Phillips, or Wilson/Oshie is going to have to find ways to score. More than any old weapon, it needs a little more straight-line speed. If CMM's shot comes online maybe some of that changes but I think they need someone who can get defenses to backpedal and clear soft areas for those IQ guys instead of hoping they can force all the breakdowns with IQ play.
There's a lot to like about what they're doing and how they do it, but it'll probably look a hell of a lot better in a year or two when the roster reflects the system a little more. I'm still not sure about Phillips, he makes good touches and the right reads but when there aren't any breakdowns he's missing the tools to make something happen himself, and then he's just a player sort of... on the ice taking up space. He can't set a physical tone like you might expect 3RW to fall back on and he's not fast enough to be that "back down" speed threat on the rush. He seems like a guy who will either score, directly give up goals, or be completely invisible and I'm not sure that's enough.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,414
- 9,129
I'm not sure a year or two significantly improves their defensive upside and athleticism. It can't get much worse but it may take longer since so much at C/D hinges on either very fortunate UFA signings or forthcoming draft investments. There's not enough on the way of true impact. I definitely like the work rate potential of Miro & Leonard but they need impact talent at C/D to consistently tip the scales and add the 200 ft. fluidity in the guts of the game. Miro & Leonard both have leadership potential but I'm skeptical of banking on industrious wingers providing enough impact. If they're still more in the 11-18 range in the draft it's typically hard to find foundational talents at premium positions.
This year needs to be about maximizing McMichael's game, establishing him as a capable top nine producer at worst. Sandin also needs to be closely evaluated in whether he's an empty calorie point producer or a savvier long-term two-way piece. And then they need to at least rehab the trade value of some of their vets so that there are options should they choose to use them. For now it's a lot of hoping for the best that a number of vets are still capable of playing a disciplined, detailed and consistently engaged game. Against faster, younger, more fluid teams it's definitely going to be a challenge not getting stretched out and contained offensively. Not to say they're destined to suck but it's a very narrow zone they're working in barring significant individual improvements. Backstrom looks better but they're still banking on getting a lot more out of a range of players either long in the tooth or short on experience. There's a lot on Carbery's plate.
This year needs to be about maximizing McMichael's game, establishing him as a capable top nine producer at worst. Sandin also needs to be closely evaluated in whether he's an empty calorie point producer or a savvier long-term two-way piece. And then they need to at least rehab the trade value of some of their vets so that there are options should they choose to use them. For now it's a lot of hoping for the best that a number of vets are still capable of playing a disciplined, detailed and consistently engaged game. Against faster, younger, more fluid teams it's definitely going to be a challenge not getting stretched out and contained offensively. Not to say they're destined to suck but it's a very narrow zone they're working in barring significant individual improvements. Backstrom looks better but they're still banking on getting a lot more out of a range of players either long in the tooth or short on experience. There's a lot on Carbery's plate.
hockeykicker
Moderator
- Dec 3, 2014
- 35,184
- 12,789
for those wondering, caps did not put anyone on waivers today
Former Caps on waivers today:
- Travis Boyd
- Zach Sanford
- Nathan Walker
- AJF
A few interesting names on waivers: Joel Armia (Montreal), Dylan Coghlan (Carolina), Boko Imama (Ottawa), Zach Bogosian (Tampa), Jack Studnicka (Vancouver).
I’d be interested in an Armia-Mantha swap if Armia didn’t have an extra year on his contract.
zappa4ever
Music is the Best!
I liked Armia a lot during the Habs run to the Final, but turns out that was his peak and is now considered lazy, unwilling to put the work in, weak forechecker, not worth his contract, who would also badmouth the team while in Finland
Always surprised Bogosian is still in the league, how many frmr Thrashers are still playing? lol
Always surprised Bogosian is still in the league, how many frmr Thrashers are still playing? lol
hockeykicker
Moderator
- Dec 3, 2014
- 35,184
- 12,789
HTFN
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2009
- 12,270
- 10,920
Has to be... at least him and Kane... my gut says Wheeler, but I can't come up with any others. I think he was part of a Boston trade
WanderingCapsFan
Registered User
trick9
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2013
- 12,208
- 5,235
I don't mind keeping Mantha until someone else wants him, but he needs to earn his spot on the line-up if he wants to actually play. I'm not a big fan of having kids sit while healthy and it makes very little difference to me if it's Mantha or Aube-Kubel who is on popcorn duty. Just make fair decisions that you can back. If he's training well while someone struggles, it's only fair to give him a shot and see if he has found his motivation. Just don't pencil him on to the line-up for 50+ games just because he has a high salary.
- Status
