Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 "Season" Pt. 6

[kicksavedave]

It doesnt work that way. The Capitals who have Sammy under contract have a specific protocol to be followed to request permission to play in an event like that. He has an agent that knows these rules and the Caps have lawyers that will remind him of these rules. These rules there so that things are done the right way. So that, the player doesn't look like a fool and the team look incompetent and so that the NHLPA doesn't have a fit. Samsonov has run afoul of these kinds of things before and by now you would think he would be taking them by the numbers. Its like he has learned nothing. And....now the media is going to have a mess of questions and create the chance for other stuff to go wrong. Its not that hard. If his agent jumped then gun on the announcement, you fire him.

Not sure you even know for sure that he announced he was going over then the Caps said no. Where is that written in the tweet? What I see is Sammy telling the Russian reporter he was disappointed he couldn't go, but nothing about him saying he was going then the Caps saying "not so fast". ITs entirely possible from what I'm reading that he asked them properly, they said no, and he told the reporter he was upset because he wanted to go... you may be making up issues out of thin cloth.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

Not sure you even know for sure that he announced he was going over then the Caps said no. Where is that written in the tweet? What I see is Sammy telling the Russian reporter he was disappointed he couldn't go, but nothing about him saying he was going then the Caps saying "not so fast". ITs entirely possible from what I'm reading that he asked them properly, they said no, and he told the reporter he was upset because he wanted to go... you may be making up issues out of thin cloth.

Maybe that is the case but I think it would be better for him to say no I cannot go I am still rehabbing and I need to recover here. He should be on the same page as the team.

 

[txpd]

Not sure you even know for sure that he announced he was going over then the Caps said no. Where is that written in the tweet? What I see is Sammy telling the Russian reporter he was disappointed he couldn't go, but nothing about him saying he was going then the Caps saying "not so fast". ITs entirely possible from what I'm reading that he asked them properly, they said no, and he told the reporter he was upset because he wanted to go... you may be making up issues out of thin cloth.

The issue isnt the Caps announcing that he wasnt going. It is the widespread reporting that he was going.

"The early playoff exits for the Capitals and Blues is Russia’s gain. The IIHF announced today that Russia has added winger Vladimir Tarasenko from St. Louis plus defenseman Dmitry Orlov and goalie Ilya Samsonov from Washington. "

This came from an official announcement from the Russians. IIHF - NHL troika to join Russia

 

[Langway]

The issue isnt the Caps announcing that he wasnt going. It is the widespread reporting that he was going.

That wasn't Samsonov himself announcing he was going but I see this is this week's melodrama.

 

[HTFN]

You know what, I don't even care if it is the Caps being petty. If you prove that you don't want to play for the team that pays you to the point where you're putting yourself in danger and breaking COVID protocols, you don't get to go running off doing what sounds fun. You're an investment in a business and it's time to be a professional.

 

[JMUcapsfan07]

I think I'm the only Caps fan left that doesn't want to see Kuznetsov traded unless there is absolute blockbuster deal to be had somewhere (doubtful). IMHO he's one of the few guys with enough talent to earn a "third strike" unless Lavi/GMBM just feel they can't reach him at all during the exit interviews, etc. I don't see a scenario where the Caps don't end up with a significant dropoff at the 2C position if they get rid of him and I don't like the idea of parting with him at the absolute bottom of his value either.

Oh well, will be an interesting offseason.

 

[trick9]

Do you have a link showing Orlov announced he was going before he received clearance?

Medical reports are classified information.

 

[txpd]

Medical reports are classified information.

Orlov has been a good professional. I have no reason to believe that Orlov had gotten his written permission to do the event. At that time he informed Team Russia that he was approved.

 

[Firsov99]

The team can forbid him to play under whatever pretense they want to use. He's under contract. If he wants some respect from them on the personal level he needs to show up at the job and follow the organizational rules. You know, a good ol fashioned "be a pro". If you don't do your part of the deal like you're supposed to they don't have to respect his wants either. Like you said, he needs to learn his lessons one way or another. All this "he's upset" is really laughable. Mate, shut your bitchass up, you were acting like an idiot for 12 months straight and then killed the team's efforts (however poor they were) in the biggest game of the season. You don't get to say what you want. Nobody really cares. Go home and follow offseason plan from your employer.

We pretty much agree on this. You presented it in a much more eloquent form Sam has the whole off-season now to rethink his approach to professional hockey.

 

[twabby]

I think I'm the only Caps fan left that doesn't want to see Kuznetsov traded unless there is absolute blockbuster deal to be had somewhere (doubtful). IMHO he's one of the few guys with enough talent to earn a "third strike" unless Lavi/GMBM just feel they can't reach him at all during the exit interviews, etc. I don't see a scenario where the Caps don't end up with a significant dropoff at the 2C position if they get rid of him and I don't like the idea of parting with him at the absolute bottom of his value either.

Oh well, will be an interesting offseason.

I'm with you. I think the best course of action is to get a legit 1C and as a result Kuznetsov would likely be a cap casualty, but I'm not trading him away for peanuts just because. Getting rid of him isn't addition by subtraction.

 

[txpd]

That wasn't Samsonov himself announcing he was going but I see this is this week's melodrama.

No, it was all the official arms of hockey that were given the information. If that was out of Samsonov's hands, ok.

 

[txpd]

I'm with you. I think the best course of action is to get a legit 1C and as a result Kuznetsov would likely be a cap casualty, but I'm not trading him away for peanuts just because. Getting rid of him isn't addition by subtraction.

Why dont you rephrase that? Its not addition by subtraction unless.....If the players as a group want Kuzy and Sammy as teammate, I am sure they stay. On the other hand of Ov's barking at Samsonov in public applies to Kuznetsov as well and is the consensus feeling in the room, do you think keeping Kuzy is a good idea?

A second question. In the past have you suggested that Cup Kuzy was a best case Kuzy and that Kuzy is not to be expected to play at that level as a matter of course?

 

[IafrateOvie34]

I think I'm the only Caps fan left that doesn't want to see Kuznetsov traded unless there is absolute blockbuster deal to be had somewhere (doubtful). IMHO he's one of the few guys with enough talent to earn a "third strike" unless Lavi/GMBM just feel they can't reach him at all during the exit interviews, etc. I don't see a scenario where the Caps don't end up with a significant dropoff at the 2C position if they get rid of him and I don't like the idea of parting with him at the absolute bottom of his value either.

Oh well, will be an interesting offseason.

Nah, there are others including me. I don't want him shipped out for peanuts. I want quality return or he stays.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Winning the SC was always one of the hardest trophies to win with maybe exception to MLB, but with all these teams and eagerness to win, it's going to really competitive for assets now.

 

[twabby]

Why dont you rephrase that? Its not addition by subtraction unless.....If the players as a group want Kuzy and Sammy as teammate, I am sure they stay. On the other hand of Ov's barking at Samsonov in public applies to Kuznetsov as well and is the consensus feeling in the room, do you think keeping Kuzy is a good idea?

A second question. In the past have you suggested that Cup Kuzy was a best case Kuzy and that Kuzy is not to be expected to play at that level as a matter of course?

If there is no suitable replacement for Kuznetsov at center lined up either via trade or free agency, then yes they should keep him even if the players object. They are professionals too and sometimes you have to deal with people/players you don't like. I'm not particularly keen on Backstrom/Eller as their top 2 centers going into next season.

 

[ClevelandCapsfan]

Medical reports are classified information.

HIPA.

 

[JMUcapsfan07]

Why dont you rephrase that? Its not addition by subtraction unless.....If the players as a group want Kuzy and Sammy as teammate, I am sure they stay. On the other hand of Ov's barking at Samsonov in public applies to Kuznetsov as well and is the consensus feeling in the room, do you think keeping Kuzy is a good idea?

A second question. In the past have you suggested that Cup Kuzy was a best case Kuzy and that Kuzy is not to be expected to play at that level as a matter of course?

I'd say it isn't a stretch to suggest Spring 2018 Kuzy is the best Kuzy we'll ever see. With that said, he was probably playing the best hockey of anyone on the planet at that point and it wouldn't be impossible we see 80-85% of that player again who would still be an elite level player with reasonable contract terms.

I understand the past several months have made the fanbase grow tired of him, but I can't help but think he's now severely underrated by a lot of fans.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Right. But he was obviously healthy enough to play at the highest level of hockey. It would be hypocritical to allow him to play in the best league in the world and not allow him to play in the much weakened WC (in just a handful of games really) under pretense of a health concern. I think that this precaution could be a camouflaged disciplinary action. I am not necessarily against it though considering that Sam has to learn his lessons.

absolutely it is not hypocritical to say he must stay behind to finish his unfinished treatment under team supervision.

This isn’t as much about playing it’s about him leaving the environment of care IMO.

 

[g00n]

HIPA.

HIPAA pertains to custodians of medical information disclosing sensitive data of certain types. I'm sure there are many experts on it here. But teams routinely disclose medical information regarding injuries and physicals, and there's nothing stopping a player/person from disclosing his own medical history. In the era of CTE they're actually being required to be MORE forthcoming with some medical info.

But I think Tex's question was just about the timing of Orlov's announcement vs any kind of indication that he'd already been cleared. A simple yes or no in the press would be enough, not any sensitive data.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

HIPA.

HIPAA LOL….

 

[Capsman]

I'd say it isn't a stretch to suggest Spring 2018 Kuzy is the best Kuzy we'll ever see. With that said, he was probably playing the best hockey of anyone on the planet at that point and it wouldn't be impossible we see 80-85% of that player again who would still be an elite level player with reasonable contract terms.

I understand the past several months have made the fanbase grow tired of him, but I can't help but think he's now severely underrated by a lot of fans.

I think if we continue to have a "Kuzy through everyone" PP zone entry, then he is indeed underrated and our PP in particular is screwed without him. 5 on 5 I don't think his offense has been good enough the past 2 years that we're better off with him than a slightly less talented 2-way center (who can win face-offs to boot).

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

HIPAA pertains to custodians of medical information disclosing sensitive data of certain types. I'm sure there are many experts on it here. But teams routinely disclose medical information regarding injuries and physicals, and there's nothing stopping a player/person from disclosing his own medical history. In the era of CTE they're actually being required to be MORE forthcoming with some medical info.

But I think Tex's question was just about the timing of Orlov's announcement vs any kind of indication that he'd already been cleared. A simple yes or no in the press would be enough, not any sensitive data.

I’d bet this disclosure is covered somewhere in the collective bargaining process. Teams are allowed to released medical updates per league rules.

 

[g00n]

I’d bet this disclosure is covered somewhere in the collective bargaining process. Teams are allowed to released medical updates per league rules.

Right. And I'm saying I think they're even REQUIRED to disclose some level of injury information, but not all medical information. Pretty sure it's a CBA thing like you mentioned because there have been concerns about teams covering up injuries and making players fight through them, sometimes while drugged up.

Then in the playoffs (or right before) the requirement shifts to just "upper body" or "lower body" so the opposing teams don't know exactly what part to target. But I think they still have to tell the league, even if not the press.

I may be making that up, though. Where's Hivemand McAckshaually when you need him? I think he has me ignored.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Right. And I'm saying I think they're even REQUIRED to disclose some level of injury information, but not all medical information. Pretty sure it's a CBA thing like you mentioned because there have been concerns about teams covering up injuries and making players fight through them, sometimes while drugged up.

Then in the playoffs (or right before) the requirement shifts to just "upper body" or "lower body" so the opposing teams don't know exactly what part to target. But I think they still have to tell the league, even if not the press.

I may be making that up, though. Where's Hivemand McAckshaually when you need him? I think he has me ignored.

I was actually going to say Teams were allowed/required to disclose certain things. I’m sure almost certainly any injury related to the game they’re paid to play, but not say when Kuzy has to hit rehab lol!

 

[OV Rocks]

If Florida gets beat in the first round, which I think everyone knows will likely happen, I wonder what they would take to move on from Barkov. He is going to be a UFA at the end of next season, will be in for a big raise, and it likely won't be with Florida. Trading Kuzy and probably a a high draft pick, might be an interesting trade from their perspective. They get a player who can fill into the spot Barkov played, obviously not as well, but it isn't just picks and prospects coming back, they also get a lower salary than what Barkov would make in the future.

Caps get a stud 1C who would fit right into the all around game the Caps want to play. I think they could afford to move on from Eller after next season, move his money to Barkov, and fill the 3C spot with McMichael the season after that.

I doubt Florida is ready to move on from Barkov, I don't blame them, but it is at least intriguing in my mind.