Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 Regular Season Part 2

[txpd]

You barely even/didn't want that. Caps are so far away from what you wanted regarding playing young players right now and still succeeding that I'd have to expect you to reevaluate this eventually or just come out and say it's a bit you're doing this year for our entertainment.

Common on Boss. I had Fehervary on the team before they got Chara. I had Fehervary on the team this camp and have been nothing but complimentary. I support being careful with the forward's ice time and giving them a chance to grow. I suppose there is a train of thought that managing them so the team has one of the best records in the league and losing some more games is better for them. Maybe having only lost 2 games in regulation is proof of poor coaching. I dont know.

Am i in favor of 4 or 5 in the lineup together and throwing them in the deep end? No. Are you?

 

[895]

Common on Boss. I had Fehervary on the team before they got Chara. I had Fehervary on the team this camp and have been nothing but complimentary. I support being careful with the forward's ice time and giving them a chance to grow. I suppose there is a train of thought that managing them so the team has one of the best records in the league and losing some more games is better for them. Maybe having only lost 2 games in regulation is proof of poor coaching. I dont know.

Am i in favor of 4 or 5 in the lineup together and throwing them in the deep end? No. Are you?

The winning record is because of the kids, not in spite of them.

The biggest underperformers this season are Eller, Hagelin, Carlson and Schultz. All veterans.

Your view that some of us want to play the kids more and are willing to lose games is predicated on a false assumption. We actually want the kids to play more and win more games.

We want to win. The best way to win is to ice the best lineup possible. That means scratching Hagelin.

 

[Peeri]

I just don't see them scratching Hagelin over any rookie. Lavi trusts his old veterans even if they don't provide anything on offence. He will likely just reinstate the "4th" line when they all healthy.

 

[txpd]

The winning record is because of the kids, not in spite of them.

The biggest underperformers this season are Eller, Hagelin, Carlson and Schultz. All veterans.

Your view that some of us want to play the kids more and are willing to lose games is predicated on a false assumption. We actually want the kids to play more and win more games.

We want to win. The best way to win is to ice the best lineup possible. That means scratching Hagelin.

We all have opinions. Some count more than others. Thanks for expressing your's. Mine dont count for anything. I just watch

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The winning record is because of the kids, not in spite of them.

The biggest underperformers this season are Eller, Hagelin, Carlson and Schultz. All veterans.

Your view that some of us want to play the kids more and are willing to lose games is predicated on a false assumption. We actually want the kids to play more and win more games.

We want to win. The best way to win is to ice the best lineup possible. That means scratching Hagelin.

Ummm….ok……if you say so lol….those warm bodies are doing it all. Which kid sits 3rd in the NHL in scoring, 2nd in goals, which kid is 5th in the NHL in scoring?

Except for CMM and possibly AJF (when/IF he starts to take on a full PK load)….those warm bodies are treading water trying not to F up. They’re NOT winning games.

I don’t have Fever categorized the same as a Protas, Leason, Pilon, AJF, and even CMM. He was ready a year ago and he’s by far the best contributor in the group.

 

[895]

Ummm….ok……if you say so lol….those warm bodies are doing it all. Which kid sits 3rd in the NHL in scoring, 2nd in goals, which kid is 5th in the NHL in scoring?

Execpt for CMM and possibly AJF (when he starts a full PK load)….those warm bodies are treading water trying not to F up. They’re NOT winning games.

That's not what I meant. Of course it's Ovechkin, Kuzy, Orlov, Jensen etc doing the heavy lifting.

But it's txpd's contention that some of us advocate for playing the kids at the cost of losing games. THat's just not true.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That's not what I meant. Of course it's Ovechkin, Kuzy, Orlov, Jensen etc doing the heavy lifting.

But it's txpd's contention that some of us advocate for playing the kids at the cost of losing games. THat's just not true.

I see….well if you had been suggesting this youth movement of 5-7 rookies in the preseason, surely that would have been done with the idea that the record would be suffering, no?

What do you expect will happen when the Vets come back? I expect them all back in the lineup. Only CMM and AJF even have a remote chance of changing that.

 

[895]

I see….well if you had been suggesting this youth movement of 5-7 rookies, surely that would have been done with the ideas that the record would be suffering.

What do you expect will happen when the Vets come back? I expect them all back in the lineup. Only CMM and AJF even have a remote chance of changing that.

Yes, only CMM and maybe AJF will stay when Backstrom, Oshie and Mantha come back.

However, I don't want to see a decrease in icetime for CMM and AJF.

What I want to happen, is that CMM takes Dowd/Eller's ice time. And AJF takes Hagelin's.

Whether or not Lavy sees it that way, no clue.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

AJF needs to start by taking his PK time…..that’s how you get Hagelin out of the lineup ultimately.


It’s going to be disappointing when he’s (AJF) shipped back to Hershey….just don’t see him unseating Hags because of the PK.

 

[twabby]

Oshie, Dowd, and Eller are likely to return soon so I imagine that means Protas, Leason, and Pilon will be back in Hershey. I guess one will stick around as the healthy scratch.

AJF and McMichael appear likely stay for awhile (assuming AJF keeps up his level of play) because both Backstrom and Mantha don't appear to be returning any time soon. I imagine the forwards will be something like:

Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson
Sheary-McMichael-Oshie
AJF-Eller-Sprong
Hagelin-Dowd-Hathaway

AJF and McMichael need to be given extended looks in these roles. If McMichael can continue to play well as a 2C, then it gives Washington a lot of options regarding the center position at the trade deadline. Like @kicksavedave mentioned in the other thread I'm not fully convinced Backstrom is going to return this season healthy and effective. If that's the case they need to know if McMichael can play that 2C role. If McMichael regresses and Backstrom is still gimpy then they really need to consider an upgrade at center because they simply can't afford to waste the season that Ovechkin is having. Eller is fine as a 2C stand-in for a few games but he's not a good 2C on a contender.

They also need to know if AJF can hack it in the bottom 6 on a consistent basis because if he can then Hagelin needs to be the first one shipped out for cap space at the deadline.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Oshie, Dowd, and Eller are likely to return soon so I imagine that means Protas, Leason, and Pilon will be back in Hershey. I guess one will stick around as the healthy scratch.

AJF and McMichael appear likely stay for awhile (assuming AJF keeps up his level of play) because both Backstrom and Mantha don't appear to be returning any time soon. I imagine the forwards will be something like:

Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson
Sheary-McMichael-Oshie
AJF-Eller-Sprong
Hagelin-Dowd-Hathaway

AJF and McMichael need to be given extended looks in these roles. If McMichael can continue to play well as a 2C, then it gives Washington a lot of options regarding the center position at the trade deadline. Like @kicksavedave mentioned in the other thread I'm not fully convinced Backstrom is going to return this season healthy and effective. If that's the case they need to know if McMichael can play that 2C role. If McMichael regresses and Backstrom is still gimpy then they really need to consider an upgrade at center because they simply can't afford to waste the season that Ovechkin is having. Eller is fine as a 2C stand-in for a few games but he's not a good 2C on a contender.

They also need to know if AJF can hack it in the bottom 6 on a consistent basis because if he can then Hagelin needs to be the first one shipped out for cap space at the deadline.

I like those lines and doubtful Hags is shipped out at the deadline. I would think thats an offseason move if it happens

 

[twabby]

I like those lines and doubtful Hags is shipped out at the deadline. I would think thats an offseason move if it happens

An entirely healthy lineup puts them incredibly close to the cap ceiling IIRC. Maybe like a few hundred thousand under the cap.

It’s possible they just stand pat at the deadline but if not some salary would have to go out in order to make a move, or someone will have to be on LTIR until the postseason. Maybe that’s Mantha or Backstrom, who knows at this point.

Aside from Justin Schultz, I don’t see another good option to move out for salary cap purposes.

 

[um]

Yes, only CMM and maybe AJF will stay when Backstrom, Oshie and Mantha come back.

However, I don't want to see a decrease in icetime for CMM and AJF.

What I want to happen, is that CMM takes Dowd/Eller's ice time. And AJF takes Hagelin's.

Whether or not Lavy sees it that way, no clue.

how would this work? would you still play CMM at center?

Lavy has a real tough choice if everyone is healthy. I'd go:

Ov-Kuz-Wilson
Mantha-Backstrom-Oshie
McMichael-Eller-Sheary
AJF-Dowd-Hathaway

I wish Lavy would give AJF some PK time to see if he can replace Hagelin. That extra 2.75 million and Schultz's 4.0 million could do use wonders at the deadline. I'm talking JT Miller or Klingberg caliber players.

 

[zappa4ever]

This is exactly right
Hags is a PK and defensive specialist and where 100% of his value comes from.
period.
Hags is not paid for his offense at all, any offense that may magically appear is Bonus (there's an interview from a ways back where Hags says this)

If Axel F starts regularly getting oppty's at PK and excels, that is when coaching will start to see the changing of the guard; I doubt Lavi has any interest or motivation to change Hags' status at all until someone shows they can PK like Hags can

Lavi values dependable responsible players that he doesn't have to babysit/manage assignments for (see Sprong e.g.) (and is why CMM has been earning more varied situations and TOI)

AJF needs to start by taking his PK time…..that’s how you get Hagelin out of the lineup ultimately.


It’s going to be disappointing when he’s (AJF) shipped back to Hershey….just don’t see him unseating Hags because of the PK.

 

[Langway]

I'd wager McMichael is moved down to leftover minutes with Sprong and...someone. More interesting to me in the short-term is whether AJF supplants Hagelin on the Dowd line. If that happens you'd have to wonder if maybe Protas is the better fit up the middle on a scoring-line with McMichael shifted to wing and Hagelin sitting. PK roles would need finessing but I don't think it can be ruled out. They haven't had to kill many penalties the past two games but AJF & Protas both played more than Hagelin in those games. If there's a path toward Hagelin sitting or becoming redundant this is it. Protas will need to really put it together but he has seemingly jumped up toward more trusted status the past couple games (on the road at that).

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd wager McMichael is moved down to leftover minutes with Sprong and...someone. More interesting to me in the short-term is whether AJF supplants Hagelin on the Dowd line. If that happens you'd have to wonder if maybe Protas is the better fit up the middle on a scoring-line with McMichael shifted to wing and Hagelin sitting. PK roles would need finessing but I don't think it can be ruled out. They haven't had to kill many penalties the past two games but AJF & Protas both played more than Hagelin in those games. If there's a path toward Hagelin sitting or becoming redundant this is it. Protas will need to really put it together but he has seemingly jumped up toward more trusted status the past couple games (on the road at that).

yup…


We need a game with a heavy PK load to get AJF out there more….

 

[YippieKaey]

If Bäckström doesn´t return i´d love to see:

Ovi-Kuzy-Wilson
CMM-Oshie-Mantha
Sheary-Eller-Sprong/Leason
AJF/Hags-Dowd-Hathaway

Carlson-Fever
Orlov-Jensen
TVR-Schultz ( If we can´t trade him for a real solid, more physical shutdown guy).

 

[Misery74]

how would this work? would you still play CMM at center?

Lavy has a real tough choice if everyone is healthy. I'd go:

Ov-Kuz-Wilson
Mantha-Backstrom-Oshie
McMichael-Eller-Sheary
AJF-Dowd-Hathaway

I wish Lavy would give AJF some PK time to see if he can replace Hagelin. That extra 2.75 million and Schultz's 4.0 million could do use wonders at the deadline. I'm talking JT Miller or Klingberg caliber players.

This, exactly. Hagelin must be moved this deadline. If this team thinks they have a legit shot, they must go all in. Not only is Hagelin unnecessary, his contract prohibits us from making any big moves. BMac will dump him, which will probably cost us a 2nd. Which, IMO, is a small price to pay.

Schultz is on an expiring contract. A team trying to make the postseason might take a flyer on him, because he has PP value.

Keeping vets because they are vets has contributed to three first round exits. BMac is no dummy.

 

[Misery74]

This is exactly right
Hags is a PK and defensive specialist and where 100% of his value comes from.
period.
Hags is not paid for his offense at all, any offense that may magically appear is Bonus (there's an interview from a ways back where Hags says this)

If Axel F starts regularly getting oppty's at PK and excels, that is when coaching will start to see the changing of the guard; I doubt Lavi has any interest or motivation to change Hags' status at all until someone shows they can PK like Hags can

Lavi values dependable responsible players that he doesn't have to babysit/manage assignments for (see Sprong e.g.) (and is why CMM has been earning more varied situations and TOI)

Hagelin is paid way too much to contribute zero offense.

If winning the Cup had taught us anything, it’s that everyone needs to chip in with a big goal. Hagelin isn’t a factor at all offensively.

 

[um]

This, exactly. Hagelin must be moved this deadline. If this team thinks they have a legit shot, they must go all in. Not only is Hagelin unnecessary, his contract prohibits us from making any big moves. BMac will dump him, which will probably cost us a 2nd. Which, IMO, is a small price to pay.

Schultz is on an expiring contract. A team trying to make the postseason might take a flyer on him, because he has PP value.

Keeping vets because they are vets has contributed to three first round exits. BMac is no dummy.

I think Schultz and Hagelin will both be dumps that probably cost us a bit to move. I'm not optimistic that anyone will want them.

We'd have to package them onto another asset.

 

[tenken00]

The cost of moving Hagelin now would be much more than the cost of moving him in the offseason. I just don't see how it will be done unless it's part of a bigger package or unless you find a team that desperately wants him.

Edit: Schultz might be easier to move, and there might be teams that could want him. And he's also a rental so easier to swallow. But the defense as a unit is playing well right now and has been for a few weeks already.

 

[Misery74]

The cost of moving Hagelin now would be much more than the cost of moving him in the offseason. I just don't see how it will be done unless it's part of a bigger package or unless you find a team that desperately wants him.

Edit: Schultz might be easier to move, and there might be teams that could want him. And he's a rental.

No one will desperately want Hagelin, but we need that salary back if we want to be players at the deadline. I agree with your point, I just don’t believe we have a choice.

 

[twabby]

The only hangup I see with moving Schultz is that the defense has been doing so well overall that management might not want to disrupt that. I don't particularly think Schultz is a big part of that success, of course, but there could be hesitation from GMBM.

 

[marcel snapshot]

I'd wager McMichael is moved down to leftover minutes with Sprong and...someone. More interesting to me in the short-term is whether AJF supplants Hagelin on the Dowd line. If that happens you'd have to wonder if maybe Protas is the better fit up the middle on a scoring-line with McMichael shifted to wing and Hagelin sitting. PK roles would need finessing but I don't think it can be ruled out. They haven't had to kill many penalties the past two games but AJF & Protas both played more than Hagelin in those games. If there's a path toward Hagelin sitting or becoming redundant this is it. Protas will need to really put it together but he has seemingly jumped up toward more trusted status the past couple games (on the road at that).

Last 2 games from Protas have been really good. Love AJF's energy, but I'd guess Lavy thinks there are some details to his game that need to be consistently filled in. Protas may have more of these details already integrated into his game - he looks to be on the right side of the puck pretty consistently, whereas AJF can get a bit lost, but then often make it up for it with speed. And Protas has assets that come with size (like puck protection) that AJF can't match. Don't get me wrong - really appreciate what the guy is doing, just not sure Protas isn't sneaking by him on the depth chart

 

[um]

The only hangup I see with moving Schultz is that the defense has been doing so well overall that management might not want to disrupt that. I don't particularly think Schultz is a big part of that success, of course, but there could be hesitation from GMBM.

Good point.

We also don’t know if we have a good #7D, we could be one injury away from a mediocre defense. It’d be nice if we could find out.