Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2018-19 We Are The Champions Edition - Pt. 1

[twabby]

To be fair, Brouwer did have a legitimately good post-season for the Blues in his one season in St. Louis. He played himself into a fat contract with Calgary and immediately imploded into a 4th liner. But for that season that the Blues got out of Brouwer, it was a change-of-scenery deal that legitimately worked out well for both teams.

I actually thought about Brouwer when DSP was up for a raise this year. DSP had huge contributions in key moments but so did Brouwer in his STL playoff run. Brouwer had 8 goals and 5 assists in 20 playoff games, while DSP had 7 goals and 1 assist in 24 playoff games. Both were otherwise 4th line forwards at even strength during the regular season.

I know Brouwer was a UFA vs. DSP being an RFA but I am glad the Capitals are paying DSP like a 4th liner because as great as his playoff run was he can't be expected to be a top 9 player and his playoff run can't be expected to be reproduced. Brouwer was paid like a top 6 forward because of one unlikely playoff run after years of playoff (and regular season) mediocrity and I was afraid the Capitals were going to make the same mistake with DSP as the Flames made with Brouwer.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Or we could base it on GMBM's comment that he would be open to having him back at the right price, or Vogels comment that the Caps would be interested in having him back, or Lebrun reporting that the Caps have reached out to Orpik's representation. Any of those work.

You could also not be a smart ass that provided zero insight or value with your post; that would work too. Hockeykicker said it looks like the possibility/speculation that Orpik resigns is gaining a little momentum. I asked what that statement was based on, since a comment like that typically comes on the heels of new information. Turns out that the statement was only HK's personal opinion based on a picture of Oprik with the Cup in Montgomery County. Nothing you provided, nor HK's personal opinion, lays any credence to the fact that resigning Orpik is "gaining momentum" nor does it show that there's any material change to the already established situation. Thanks, though.

 

[Silky mitts]

Or we could base it on GMBM's comment that he would be open to having him back at the right price, or Vogels comment that the Caps would be interested in having him back, or Lebrun reporting that the Caps have reached out to Orpik's representation. Any of those work.

Elliot Friedman said about 4 teams have reached out to Orpik and the Caps have "the inside track"

 

[Calicaps]

I actually thought about Brouwer when DSP was up for a raise this year. DSP had huge contributions in key moments but so did Brouwer in his STL playoff run. Brouwer had 8 goals and 5 assists in 20 playoff games, while DSP had 7 goals and 1 assist in 24 playoff games. Both were otherwise 4th line forwards at even strength during the regular season.

I know Brouwer was a UFA vs. DSP being an RFA but I am glad the Capitals are paying DSP like a 4th liner because as great as his playoff run was he can't be expected to be a top 9 player and his playoff run can't be expected to be reproduced. Brouwer was paid like a top 6 forward because of one unlikely playoff run after years of playoff (and regular season) mediocrity and I was afraid the Capitals were going to make the same mistake with DSP as the Flames made with Brouwer.

While I’m am certainly not argument by for paying DSP like a top 9 guy, as I’ve noted here repeatedly, he has a history of strong playoff performances, both in the NHL and in juniors. I agree it would be unwise to assume he reproduces this year’s playoffs, but he’s already shown that he’s not a one hit wonder.

 

[HeyMattyB]

You could also not be a smart ass that provided zero insight or value with your post; that would work too. Hockeykicker said it looks like the possibility/speculation that Orpik resigns is gaining a little momentum. I asked what that statement was based on, since a comment like that typically comes on the heels of new information. Turns out that the statement was only HK's personal opinion based on a picture of Oprik with the Cup in Montgomery County. Nothing you provided, nor HK's personal opinion, lays any credence to the fact that resigning Orpik is "gaining momentum" nor does it show that there's any material change to the already established situation. Thanks, though.

Lighten up, Francis.

 

[peterthegreat12]

You could also not be a smart ass that provided zero insight or value with your post; that would work too. Hockeykicker said it looks like the possibility/speculation that Orpik resigns is gaining a little momentum. I asked what that statement was based on, since a comment like that typically comes on the heels of new information. Turns out that the statement was only HK's personal opinion based on a picture of Oprik with the Cup in Montgomery County. Nothing you provided, nor HK's personal opinion, lays any credence to the fact that resigning Orpik is "gaining momentum" nor does it show that there's any material change to the already established situation. Thanks, though.

Cool.

 

[Hivemind]

There certainly is. Plenty of commentary from Caps' teammates about Orpik giving them little tips about positioning on a certain play, mistakes they made on a particular shift, etc.

And many ex-players don't work there way up the ranks. Doug Weight, Rod Brind'Amour, Rick Tocchet, and others went straight into the NHL assistant ranks. Reirden's experience coaching defensemen would ease the transition.

I think that's stretching what was said well beyond the context of when and how it was said.

Further still, are you sure those are the examples you really want to be turning to? Doug Weight was regarded on Adam Oates-like levels by Islanders fans. Brind'Amour took a year off and then has been sitting in Carolina forever as they've done nothing at all. Tocchet went to another franchise to start his coaching career, and has an absolutely pitiful record as a head coach.

 

[twabby]

While I’m am certainly not argument by for paying DSP like a top 9 guy, as I’ve noted here repeatedly, he has a history of strong playoff performances, both in the NHL and in juniors. I agree it would be unwise to assume he reproduces this year’s playoffs, but he’s already shown that he’s not a one hit wonder.

I'd caution against using junior playoff numbers for anything related to the NHL, the games are just too different to make any comparisons.

DSP has 16 points in 48 NHL playoff games (granted 13 of them are goals), which is very good production from a bottom 6 player. But he only averaged a 1.2 shots a game in the playoffs after averaging 1.3 shots a game in the regular season so the underlying numbers just don't support him being anything more than a 4th line player in the long run, including the playoffs. It's just unrealistic to expect any player to shoot 25% again in a postseason (and for him to continue his 17% overall postseason shooting percentage).

And as legendary as DSP's postseason was, he was still outshot AND outscored while he was on the ice. He's a good 4th liner but in all likelihood he's never going to reproduce his 2018 postseason run. Which is fine.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Cool.

Super cool.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

I think that's stretching what was said well beyond the context of when and how it was said.

Further still, are you sure those are the examples you really want to be turning to? Doug Weight was regarded on Adam Oates-like levels by Islanders fans. Brind'Amour took a year off and then has been sitting in Carolina forever as they've done nothing at all. Tocchet went to another franchise to start his coaching career, and has an absolutely pitiful record as a head coach.

How is it stretching? Are you privy to info that indicates he wouldnt make a good coach?

Sean Burke went right into assistant coaching at the NHL level and was considered one of the best goalie coaches in the league.

 

[Hivemind]

How is it stretching? Are you privy to info that indicates he wouldnt make a good coach?

It's stretching because you're taking quotes from Orpik fluff pieces and trying to attribute greater meaning to them. We both have the same amount of information here, and I don't agree with your assessment of the quotes. The bulk of players who jump right into coaching don't work out. It doesn't make sense to me to try out someone with zero coaching experience in that role at the highest level when their peers making similar moves have failed so frequently.

If they want to give a job somewhere else in the organization, sure, why not.
edit; I'd be open to something like what Anaheim did with Scott Neidermayer. Start him off as a "consultant" and then a "special assignments coach" after a year or two.

Sean Burke went right into assistant coaching at the NHL level and was considered one of the best goalie coaches in the league.

He's the exception to the rule, and he's a goalie coach instead of a skater coach.

 

[discobob]

Cool.

Super cool.

Super mega cool

 

[third man in]

Well if they did hire Orpik for a assistant coach it would be on the basis that BMac and Rierden would think he's the right person for the job. It wouldn't be a token appreciation kind of thing.

I would be good with them hiring him as some sort of developmental coach.

 

[Hivemind]

I'm thinking that Reid Cashman ends up getting promoted up from Hershey to take over the D in Washington, anyway. He was the only member of the Hershey staff they kept when they fired Mann.

 

[peterthegreat12]

Super mega cool

Infinity cool.

 

[kicksavedave]

Cool.

Super cool.

Super mega cool

Infinity cool.

Not cool anymore.

 

[Marshall]

Kinda feel like the Caps could use two 6 - 9 defensemen, be it Orpik or whomever. One for the big club and one for Hershey. No idea as to players off the top of my head, and the Caps look for different things in players than I do. (I like snarl, they're bigger on hockey sense.)

Derek Grant is still out there, and he's a good example of I player I like and the Caps prolly wouldn't. (And yes, he's a forward.)

 

[Hivemind]

I think Aaron Ness is that #9 for Hershey.

 

[Kalopsia]

Hi, long time lurker, recently made an account and thought I'd chime in. Regarding the "Orpik as a future coach" thing, I met Alan May last week and while chatting with him he mentioned two things that seem relevant:

1) Orpik realized last season that his pairing with Shattenkirk wasn't working, and asked for the pairings to be changed. Trotz overruled him.

2) Late this past season, Orpik and Ovi went to the coaching staff and suggested a change in the defensive system. The coaches were split 2-2 on whether to stay the course or go with it, but ultimately went with it because they knew they were all gone anyway if they didn't reach the finals. I dunno what the change was exactly, but the results speak for themselves.

I don't think every veteran that give tips to their teammates in necessarily going to make a good coach, but when you suggest a system change and then win a cup with that system, that seems like a bigger deal. It either speaks very well of Brooks, or very poorly of Trotz.

 

[Hivemind]

Really curious who was on what end of that 2-2 split (particularly with regards to Reirden and Trotz).

 

[Portable Mink]

Thats some great info thanks for that @Kalopsia.

I actually thought about Brouwer when DSP was up for a raise this year. DSP had huge contributions in key moments but so did Brouwer in his STL playoff run. Brouwer had 8 goals and 5 assists in 20 playoff games, while DSP had 7 goals and 1 assist in 24 playoff games. Both were otherwise 4th line forwards at even strength during the regular season.

I know Brouwer was a UFA vs. DSP being an RFA but I am glad the Capitals are paying DSP like a 4th liner because as great as his playoff run was he can't be expected to be a top 9 player and his playoff run can't be expected to be reproduced. Brouwer was paid like a top 6 forward because of one unlikely playoff run after years of playoff (and regular season) mediocrity and I was afraid the Capitals were going to make the same mistake with DSP as the Flames made with Brouwer.

This is key. To be at least an 'OK' GM, you could essentially stick to something like generally not paying 4th liners more than 1.5m, 3rd liners more than 3.5m (maybe a centre), etc..

 

[hockeykicker]

fwiw, sens are now allowing any team that wants to trade for karlsson to negotiate an extension for him. he is rumored to be asking 8x11

 

[Langway]

Thanks for the info, @Kalopsia.

With Reirden & MacLellan set to speak to the media tomorrow, I wonder if they're not holding off on announcing Orpik's return. Hamhuis should be the primary fallback option. Emelin, Davidson, Folin, Bieksa and DeMelo seem like at least decent competition for Bowey. The tough part in adding another blueliner in Hershey would be rotating players in the lineup. The Caps definitely need some experience in the mix at 6/7 if nothing else.

 

[Kalopsia]

Really curious who was on what end of that 2-2 split (particularly with regards to Reirden and Trotz).

I was really curious about that as well, but I figured if May was willing to name names he would've come right out with it. Logically though, it makes the most sense to assume Rierden was for it and Trotz against. Rierden almost has to have disagreed with Trotz, because it makes no sense for them to overhaul their defensive system if both the head coach and the assistant in charge of defense/associate head coach were against it. Trotz has always had the reputation of a guy who doesn't make adjustments, which the Orpik/Shattenkirk thing corroborates, so it makes sense for him to have been on the status quo side. Rierden's been coaching Orpik since 2010, so he'd probably side with the guy he's been with for 8 years. Wouldn't surprise me if the system Orpik suggested was one Rierden used in Pittsburgh, for that matter. And MacLellan's willingness to let Trotz leave in favor of Rierden makes a lot more sense if Rierden was involved in the new system while Trotz just acquiesced, rather than vice versa. That's just my own speculation though, May didn't give any hints beyond what I've already mentioned.

 

[strungout]

If they don’t bring Orpik back, I hope they just bank the space on a potential trade or something.

Just go with Djoos - Bowey with Ness as the 7 or maybe Lewington (but I imagine they want him getting minutes in Hershey)