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TSN: Caps fire Oats and McPhee freed - Toronto options?

cujoflutie

cujoflutie

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Jun 27, 2002
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What is our goal here? Is our goal just to win a playoff round or win a cup?


George Mcphee never would have won a cup in Washington. He built a team around players that will clearly never lead anyone to a cup. Now they're not even a playoff team any more despite wining the presidents trophy 4 years ago. All those years and all that talent, they never made it past the second round with Ovies crew. And before that they had similar failures with Jagr. He had his run to the final in 98 with Kolzig having a solid playoff but since then there's been a whole lot of nothing. Heck the leafs won more playoff rounds while McPhee was in Washington than the Caps.

I'd rather we roll the dice at someone who MIGHT turn us into contenders as opposed to someone who might make us good but almost definitely wont lead to playoff success.


The consensus around Oates seems to be that he was a terrible head coach but makes for a great assistant. If he's willing to take such a role again by all means bring him here.
 
tzinc

tzinc

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Oct 20, 2009
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they barely missed the playoffs this year

the point is no one can name anyone better than McPhee available to the LEAFS and when he is plucked who will be available who is better

many GMs Coaches didn't win in one place but than won somewhere else but while they were at that place they showed solid credentials which McPhee has shown

the odds of someone with a solid record of rebuilding a team and drafting and developing great players is MORE likely to win that team a cup then someone without such a record

I would take the Leafs making the playoffs year after year BECAUSE a team making the playoffs can always get lucky and pull out a win especially if they make it consistently year after year
 
Coldplay619

Coldplay619

Registered User
Oct 17, 2010
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Caps fan here.

McPhee is the perfect guy for a rebuild if you want to go that way but he's a terrible closer.

He drafted well but never brought in the high impact free agents, shored up the defense or found a permanent solution at the 2C spot.

And these were problems back in 2007-2008 when they first made the playoffs for the first time under this core.

Since then:

2C: We've used Fedorov, Belanger, Fleischman, Morrisson, Laich, Johansson, Perreault, Ribiero and Grabovski as our 2C's.

D: Mike Green is the only one left from that team, Schultz got bought out and is in the AHL, Poti had a career ending injury, Sloan is in the AHL and Morrisson, Jurcina and Eminger are in the KHL.

*We used 14 different defensemen on our team this year even with Alzner-Carlson-Green.

G: Since the 2007-2008 season we've seemingly anointed a new number 1 goalie every year.

Kolzig, Huet, Theodore, Varlamov, Neuvirth, Vokoun, Holtby, Grubauer and Halak.

We have a 1C, 1W, 1D pair, 1G and yet he still can't build a team around that.

Stay away.
 
Mess

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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tzinc said:
they barely missed the playoffs this year

the point is no one can name anyone better than McPhee available to the LEAFS and when he is plucked who will be available who is better

many GMs Coaches didn't win in one place but than won somewhere else but while they were at that place they showed solid credentials which McPhee has shown

the odds of someone with a solid record of rebuilding a team and drafting and developing great players is MORE likely to win that team a cup then someone without such a record

I would take the Leafs making the playoffs year after year BECAUSE a team making the playoffs can always get lucky and pull out a win especially if they make it consistently year after year
Click to expand...

McPhee learned the hard through the loss of his own job that trying to build a winning team around a goal scoring winger is a fruitless adventure and undertaking.

We need a GM that believes in building from the goalie out through strong defense and strength down the middle and McPhee's teams were anything but that over the past years.
 
calcal798

calcal798

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Jun 2, 2010
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London
Mess said:
McPhee learned the hard through the loss of his own job that trying to build a winning team around a goal scoring winger is a fruitless adventure and undertaking.

We need a GM that believes in building from the goalie out through strong defense and strength down the middle and McPhee's teams were anything but that over the past years.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this, two two-way centers with offensive upside, a #1 goaltender, a solid top four would be the starting point of a solid team IMO.
 

Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
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People in this thread are talking about McPhee like any GM in the league would have passed on Ovi except him. Not only did McPhee straight up decide to have a fire sale and rebuild, but he drafted some great players and an overall great team in their prime (I'd say they were a goaltender and quality defense men away). I only wish the Leafs could have a GM that could commit to something like that and draft players like Backstrom and Green. Instead we have have Bozak, Gunnerson and a bunch of players we traded away.

If Ovi's draft was Crosby's year and the Caps now had a cup everyone would be calling Mcphee a great GM, just luck of the draw.
 
Last edited:
ACC1224

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
74,253
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Mess said:
McPhee learned the hard through the loss of his own job that trying to build a winning team around a goal scoring winger is a fruitless adventure and undertaking.

We need a GM that believes in building from the goalie out through strong defense and strength down the middle and McPhee's teams were anything but that over the past years.
Click to expand...

Who do you feel he should have drafted instead of Ovechkin?
 

Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
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ACC1224 said:
Who do you feel he should have drafted instead of Ovechkin?
Click to expand...

Malkin I suppose, but that's the keyboard GM's amazing case of hindsight. I was young at the time but wasn't Ovi the uncontested #1?
 
cujoflutie

cujoflutie

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Jun 27, 2002
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kitchener, Ontario
www.kwrentagoalie.com
There's a difference between having Ovi on the team and building it around him.

They basically gave Ovi the keys to the mansion and let him act like the spoiled rich kid who gets to do whatever he likes at work because daddy is the boss. Conversely with Crosby they had veterans working with him early on molding him. Crosby's a lot more mature than he was when he started his career. Crosby's facing adversity and is slumping right now, the difference is that he doesn't become a distraction when he's not happy, Ovi does.


Here in Toronto this isn't Kessel's team. He's slumped, he's been put in situations he doesn't like, he's been benched. He's a player on the team but he's not the team.
 

hullsy47

Registered User
Dec 7, 2005
6,407
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leeaf83 said:
There's a difference between having Ovi on the team and building it around him.

They basically gave Ovi the keys to the mansion and let him act like the spoiled rich kid who gets to do whatever he likes at work because daddy is the boss. Conversely with Crosby they had veterans working with him early on molding him. Crosby's a lot more mature than he was when he started his career. Crosby's facing adversity and is slumping right now, the difference is that he doesn't become a distraction when he's not happy, Ovi does.


Here in Toronto this isn't Kessel's team. He's slumped, he's been put in situations he doesn't like, he's been benched. He's a player on the team but he's not the team.
Click to expand...

ya but can kessel buy into a system ,he hasnt shown much in the way of trying to be a puck retriever.....we can harp on kessel all day ,in the end shanny is no dummy,he wasnt looking at the leafs with a phil kessel poster on his ceiling and a kessel jersey on ...shanny will listen to numerous people ,some outside the organization also to try and gauge where the leafs fit in ,with core players as compared to other elite teams,,,,thats how u build a winner.i hope no more retreads and blowhards,new blood ,players and coaches .scouts ,eager ,enthusiastic only need apply
 
The Blue Devil

The Blue Devil

Registered User
Nov 9, 2009
5,682
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Interactif said:
Is Grabo a coach killer? That's 3rd coach he has played for that has been fired.
Click to expand...

Considering Grabo only played 58 games I highley doubt that it's his fault. Funny that you don't mention Ovechkin or Backstrom though considering this is the 3rd coach that they've gone through in the past 4 years. Oh and what about Bozak? If Randy does get fired it will be his 2nd coach in the same time-span, maybe he's the big issue. He's also been our top-line center for the last 2 82 game collapses. Oh jeebus Mr. I think we gotz our-self a conundrum...
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
49,057
11,618
The Blue Devil said:
Considering Grabo only played 58 games I highley doubt that it's his fault. Funny that you don't mention Ovechkin or Backstrom though considering this is the 3rd coach that they've gone through in the past 4 years. Oh and what about Bozak? If Randy does get fired it will be his 2nd coach in the same time-span, maybe he's the big issue. He's also been our top-line center for the last 2 82 game collapses. Oh jeebus Mr. I think we gotz our-self a conundrum...
Click to expand...
Who is the 3rd coach with Grabo? Wilson was fired and now Oates. Carlyle has his job when Grabo left, same with Carbo in Montreal.
 
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