GDT: Caps @ Bruins, 6:30PM

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txpd

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Exactly. Carr played only 10:30 in a double OT game. The next lowest forward was Hathaway at 16:30. Our team looks old and tired and he is shortening the bench. Don’t dress a guy if you aren’t going to play him. Sprong can contribute much more.

I would disagree that he offers more. He offers what Carr cant. An NHL level scoring shot. Laviolette has been pretty obvious that he doesnt think Sprong brings much more.

Lets me ask you this. Do you think having Pastrnak line up next to Sprong every shift Sprong takes is a good choice? I think that is a nutshell is why Sprong didnt play
 

HTFN

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I guess, I can agree with this. Dress Sprong and just keep him on the bench until a spot opens up. Carr didnt play a lot more
Now you're on the right track. Endlessly not-losing a game doesn't actually help you win one. What Sprong does in his 10 minutes will do more to actively win you a game than what Carr will do in his. Even if he's 10% better defensively, make it 20 or some other imaginary number, you're still looking at a mostly average NHL defensive player without exposure to the skill and nuance he's defending against and can't be regularly shifted as a result.

Playing Carr for Sprong and Schultz for TvR is kind of like using stat bonuses that cancel each other out.
 
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HTFN

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I would disagree that he offers more. He offers what Carr cant. An NHL level scoring shot. Laviolette has been pretty obvious that he doesnt think Sprong brings much more.

Lets me ask you this. Do you think having Pastrnak line up next to Sprong every shift Sprong takes is a good choice? I think that is a nutshell is why Sprong didnt play
It's not a good idea with Carr out there either. That's stupid, full-stop, so I'm not sure why you're going there. It's not like we're talking about Sprong or Hagelin here, Carr hasn't shown he's at all worth trusting in that situation like it's some kind of tradeoff you have to make for the sake of defense.

But since we are, give me Sprong. If you can't get your players to skate out of their minds during the playoffs you're not going very far anyway, so I want the guy whose toolbox is undoubtedly better than the other guy's. Do I want either of them in the defensive zone on the faceoff? f*** no. Do I think Sprong is more likely to strip Pastrnak of a puck and do something dangerous with it when they can forecheck? Yep. 100%.

He's more skilled, a better skater, and most importantly reads the game like an offensive player, which means more jumping on passing lanes and actively trying to create with his time instead of just avoiding disaster.
 

txpd

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Now you're on the right track. Endlessly not-losing a game doesn't actually help you win one. What Sprong does in his 10 minutes will do more to actively win you a game than what Carr will do in his. Even if he's 10% better defensively, make it 20 or some other imaginary number, you're still looking at a mostly average NHL defensive player without exposure to the skill and nuance he's defending against and can't be regularly shifted as a result.

Playing Carr for Sprong and Schultz for TvR is kind of like using stat bonuses that cancel each other out.

Endlessly not losing is overstating it. They are on the road. Everytime Lavy sends out Sprong, Butch counters with Pastrnak. So, my read is that Lavy wants to avoid losing for that one shift and move back trying to win with the next shift.

As for Schultz and TVR the dynamic is opposite. That is trying to win. Its keeping to the established identity of the team. Lavy plays a 5 man attaack unit with the defensemen fully involved. He needs offense from his defense. TVR has 3 pts this season. Replace the #2 defense offense producer with TVR and the only d pair that can provide offense is Carlson and Orlov.

Do you think Lavy should scrap his team style and put something new in that fits those two pairs better? A more defensive style?
 

txpd

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It's not a good idea with Carr out there either. That's stupid, full-stop, so I'm not sure why you're going there. It's not like we're talking about Sprong or Hagelin here, Carr hasn't shown he's at all worth trusting in that situation like it's some kind of tradeoff you have to make for the sake of defense.

Pretty clear to me that Laviolette things Carr can skate around out there with the grenade for 45 seconds without it going off and doesnt think that about Sprong.

Given a healthy forward group Sprong sits for the same reasons. His behavior where Sprong is concerned is consistent. Its my guess that if the game was in Washington, Sprong would play instead of Carr
 

Hivemind

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Claiming TVR can’t play an attacking style is ridiculous. Basing that opinion on his point totals is doubling down on that absurdity. Did you watch TVR this year or any previous year? He’s plenty capable of moving the puck and joining the rush when necessary. He was the #7 most of the year and only appeared in 20 games and played not a ton of minutes when doing so, so of course his point totals are low. Are you also going to claim Zdeno Chara doesn’t fit Lavis system because his 10 points in 55 games is low?
 

Ovie's Neighbor

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Lets me ask you this. Do you think having Pastrnak line up next to Sprong every shift Sprong takes is a good choice? I think that is a nutshell is why Sprong didnt play

Pasta does not scare me at all. Just look at his play the last half of the season and previous playoffs. Go read the Boston board they are talking about trading him.
 

illicit

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Claiming TVR can’t play an attacking style is ridiculous. Basing that opinion on his point totals is doubling down on that absurdity. Did you watch TVR this year or any previous year? He’s plenty capable of moving the puck and joining the rush when necessary. He was the #7 most of the year and only appeared in 20 games and played not a ton of minutes when doing so, so of course his point totals are low. Are you also going to claim Zdeno Chara doesn’t fit Lavis system because his 10 points in 55 games is low?

Also, Dillon-TVR has proven to be a great pairing in the past. Dillon-Schultz? Not so much. Schultz has been a complete non-factor so far in the playoffs, he's made a few really bad pinches and is just soft on the puck in general.
 
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Hivemind

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Also, Dillon-TVR has proven to be a great pairing in the past. Dillon-Schultz? Not so much. Schultz has been a complete non-factor so far in the playoffs, he's made a few really bad pinches and is just soft on the puck in general.
Not to mention Schultz failing to communicate on not one, but two OT goals against.
 

HTFN

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Endlessly not losing is overstating it. They are on the road. Everytime Lavy sends out Sprong, Butch counters with Pastrnak. So, my read is that Lavy wants to avoid losing for that one shift and move back trying to win with the next shift.

As for Schultz and TVR the dynamic is opposite. That is trying to win. Its keeping to the established identity of the team. Lavy plays a 5 man attaack unit with the defensemen fully involved. He needs offense from his defense. TVR has 3 pts this season. Replace the #2 defense offense producer with TVR and the only d pair that can provide offense is Carlson and Orlov.

Do you think Lavy should scrap his team style and put something new in that fits those two pairs better? A more defensive style?

No, I understand all the pieces in a vacuum, but let's be real here, Carr shouldn't move the needle over Sprong having watched them both. I'm not actually speaking to TvR and Schultz but exactly as you said, the dynamic is opposite. He needs offense from his defense and is willing to play a player with more defensive liability because of his offense. That's the point, it's robbing Peter to pay Paul when it comes down to it.

The question is why that's more acceptable on your second defensive pair than your fourth forward line. If what they need is offense, it should be both Schultz and Sprong. They should be trying to feed off of each other. Instead, possibly because you've dressed Schultz and feel a need to cover him (we speak about the five man unit and constant rotation) you take away Schultz's weapons because he needs to be watched. Rather than setting your win condition and building your team around it, they're stretching parts of the team identity to try and cover all the gaps, and there's no guarantee that's any better.

It's all a very long, nebulous "calculation", but I know you're a baseball fan and that's a sport that deals with this sort of thing more frequently. At some point, you have to play offensive players. You can mitigate defensive risk but it will always exist, because even the best players aren't perfect, so you have to look at the statistical likelihood that you can outperform what you project will happen to your defense. You have to keep your bats around even if they're defensive liabilities, and at some point you pinch hit them for your defensive guys if you have to because defense won't win you a game you're already losing. Right now the Capitals aren't getting that done and they aren't playing some of the players that have proven to punch above that level, so they need to initiate.
 
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HTFN

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Pretty clear to me that Laviolette things Carr can skate around out there with the grenade for 45 seconds without it going off and doesnt think that about Sprong.

Given a healthy forward group Sprong sits for the same reasons. His behavior where Sprong is concerned is consistent. Its my guess that if the game was in Washington, Sprong would play instead of Carr
I... frankly just don't think that holds a lot of water. It was a criticism of the guy as a coach going in, it's a notable quirk amongst NHL coaches, and it's not a place where they're above criticism.

Stop hiding behind Laviolette, is Carr honestly showing you that? On a level that is worth the clear disparity in offensive skill? Curious if you're siding with Tony La Russa right now too.

edit, for clarity: Will you side with a manager because he's the manager, or is the manager sometimes making a mistake or pushing the wrong button?
 
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Melkor

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Imagine defending having a player of Carr's caliber in the lineup. I don't care if Jesus himself would have put him the lineup - he's not an NHL player. Period. Is Sprong an NHL player? Damn right he is. Would I try him against Pastrnak as someone suggested? Lol as if he'd look worse than Ovechkin has this entire series. I'd try anybody capable of shooting the puck on that top-6 with the way things have been looking thus far.
 
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txpd

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I... frankly just don't think that holds a lot of water. It was a criticism of the guy as a coach going in, it's a notable quirk amongst NHL coaches, and it's not a place where they're above criticism.

Stop hiding behind Laviolette, is Carr honestly showing you that? On a level that is worth the clear disparity in offensive skill? Curious if you're siding with Tony La Russa right now too.

edit, for clarity: Will you side with a manager because he's the manager, or is the manager sometimes making a mistake or pushing the wrong button?

I just listened to Lavy's presser today. Last few days he has talked about how close the games have been down the line. Chances, high danger, zone time and so on.

Lets be clear. I am not defending Laviolette as much explaining the situation as I see it. Why not scratch Hagelin for Sprong? Lavy wont do that because the PK, because the quality of the 4th line, because unit defensive success. Lavy says he wants Sprong in a top 6 position or he will use someone else.

Do I always agree with Laviolette because he is coach? No. I would rather Wilson and Ovechkin play together all the time.

Last point. I/we have no idea how damaged this team is. You can make a fair case that Oshie, Eller, Carlson and Schultz are legit injured and are doing what they can because playoffs. You can make the same case that Ovechkin, Backstrom, Wilson and Chara would have missed more time to become more healthy were it not playoffs. Then of course there are the goalies. You can pull a few names out of that and a picture evolves that what may be going on here is they are using duct tape and chewing gum to stick a lineup together.
 

g00n

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Everyone is hurt in the playoffs. Everyone. Caps ignored that in 2018. Next man up. Or just man up (adult up, whatever...they're dudes).

Point being there should not be any excuses on a championship team. Are they that quality? I guess we'll find out.
 
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twabby

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I just listened to Lavy's presser today. Last few days he has talked about how close the games have been down the line. Chances, high danger, zone time and so on.

Lets be clear. I am not defending Laviolette as much explaining the situation as I see it. Why not scratch Hagelin for Sprong? Lavy wont do that because the PK, because the quality of the 4th line, because unit defensive success. Lavy says he wants Sprong in a top 6 position or he will use someone else.

Do I always agree with Laviolette because he is coach? No. I would rather Wilson and Ovechkin play together all the time.

Last point. I/we have no idea how damaged this team is. You can make a fair case that Oshie, Eller, Carlson and Schultz are legit injured and are doing what they can because playoffs. You can make the same case that Ovechkin, Backstrom, Wilson and Chara would have missed more time to become more healthy were it not playoffs. Then of course there are the goalies. You can pull a few names out of that and a picture evolves that what may be going on here is they are using duct tape and chewing gum to stick a lineup together.

You’re right that Carlson and Schultz are likely injured to some degree, which makes leaving TVR on the bench tonight all the more baffling. And it makes skating Carlson and Schultz such heavy minutes even more perplexing given that Jensen has been good this series, has been good this year, was good last postseason, and has formed a killer duo with Orlov during their time together.

Maybe everyone knocks it out of the park tonight and this discussion is moot, and maybe the information we have is incomplete. But based on the knowledge that we have or can ascertain the coaching decisions after Game 1 have frankly been awful.

Laviolette was lauded as a guy able to adjust and win chess matches against other coaches in the playoffs. So far, he’s being outcoached by Bruce Cassidy IMO.
 
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txpd

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You’re right that Carlson and Schultz are likely injured to some degree, which makes leaving TVR on the bench tonight all the more baffling. And it makes skating Carlson and Schultz such heavy minutes even more perplexing given that Jensen has been good this series.

Its not baffling or perplexing to me at all. You can decide that changing focus/plans to fit your available assets its is a better choice, but if the Caps are going to try and create offense the way the team has created offense this season, TvR and more Jensen instead of Schultz and more Carlson isnt going to get it down. They dont have any offensive skills. Jensen can skate and keep up(I would suggest that he might be hurt too just based on the usage).

You are suggesting that they not only take the #2 offensive producer on the defense out of the lineup for their least productive defenseman, you are both saying they should reduce the role for the top offensive producer AND mess with the only pair that would remain to produce offensive and monkey with Orlov's game right now.

I am not baffled in the slightest. If you want to make a case that, the Caps need to pull back and survive these injuries with tight pro defense game, your player selections make some sense. If you want to keep a strong 5 man attack with primary offense from the defense, then maybe I am a bit baffled.

Twabs: Why is TvR solidly the 7 and Sprong solidly the 13th? Those reasons are why they are not playing and why Lavy would rather play a crippled player than them
 

hb12xchamps

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Absolutely no one should be defending Carr. If it was a normal season he’d be playing in the Calder Cup Playoffs right now. He had no business getting a sweater last game. I don’t think McMichael is ready yet, but I would have given him a sweater over Carr. Hell I’d give Pilon a sweater before Carr
 

twabby

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Its not baffling or perplexing to me at all. You can decide that changing focus/plans to fit your available assets its is a better choice, but if the Caps are going to try and create offense the way the team has created offense this season, TvR and more Jensen instead of Schultz and more Carlson isnt going to get it down. They dont have any offensive skills. Jensen can skate and keep up(I would suggest that he might be hurt too just based on the usage).

You are suggesting that they not only take the #2 offensive producer on the defense out of the lineup for their least productive defenseman, you are both saying they should reduce the role for the top offensive producer AND mess with the only pair that would remain to produce offensive and monkey with Orlov's game right now.

I am not baffled in the slightest. If you want to make a case that, the Caps need to pull back and survive these injuries with tight pro defense game, your player selections make some sense. If you want to keep a strong 5 man attack with primary offense from the defense, then maybe I am a bit baffled.

Twabs: Why is TvR solidly the 7 and Sprong solidly the 13th? Those reasons are why they are not playing and why Lavy would rather play a crippled player than them

I think Schultz being in the lineup now is similar to why Alzner was in the lineup over Schmidt in 2017: a poor coaching decision.

I imagine Laviolette had some input on acquiring Schultz as a free agent, and now he is doubling down on a bad decision.

I don’t care about Schultz’s point totals in the season. Points are a terrible metric alone for offensive impact by a defenseman. Have you felt like Schultz has been driving offense? I sure as hell don’t.
 
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