Seravalli: Capitals have openly engaged teams about Kuznetsov and Mantha

[Misery74]

Wings will take Kuzy for a 2nd rounder, can eat his full cap hit next 2 years gives time for Kasper or whoever we draft at 9 (moore/Dvorsky) to develop. Copp aint it at 2nd line center.

The Caps are giving a second? No chance. If you need a second line center, we’ll give him to you for a second and a prospect.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

The Caps are giving a second? No chance. If you need a second line center, we’ll give him to you for a second and a prospect.

No, the wings will pay a 2nd for him at his full cap hit, his value isn't that high as he requested a trade 2 years ago and put up 55 points and has cocaine issues

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

No, the wings will pay a 2nd for him at his full cap hit, his value isn't that high as he requested a trade 2 years ago and put up 55 points and has cocaine issues

Caps would just reject that and attempt to get him to bounce back under the new coach.

 

[Castle8130]

Hawks are down to take Mantha and lower Kuzys cap hit the next 3 years. It'll cost you a 1st or to swap picks though

 

[belfour30]

Hawks are down to take Mantha and lower Kuzys cap hit the next 3 years. It'll cost you a 1st or to swap picks though

I wouldn't mind taking Kuznetsov to play on the Hawks for the remainder of his contract. It's only 2 years and the Hawks could flip him again with retention for more assets if he plays well.

I'd be down to take both Kuznetsov and Mantha at full hit to swap 19 and 8.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No, the wings will pay a 2nd for him at his full cap hit, his value isn't that high as he requested a trade 2 years ago and put up 55 points and has cocaine issues

Lol who gives a crap about him doing cocaine? Such a random thing to bring up to justify how you value a player

 

[StephenPeat]

I wouldn't mind taking Kuznetsov to play on the Hawks for the remainder of his contract. It's only 2 years and the Hawks could flip him again with retention for more assets if he plays well.

I'd be down to take both Kuznetsov and Mantha at full hit to swap 19 and 8.

This is absolutely stupid. The Capitals ARE NOT going to trade:
WSH
Mantha
Kuznetsov
8th Overall

CHI
19th Overall

That’s one of the worst suggestions I’ve ever seen anyone on this site make. Im sure you’d be down to do that because it’s terrible for WSH.

 

[belfour30]

This is absolutely stupid. The Capitals ARE NOT going to trade:
WSH
Mantha
Kuznetsov
8th Overall

CHI
19th Overall

That’s one of the worst suggestions I’ve ever seen anyone on this site make. Im sure you’d be down to do that because it’s terrible for WSH.

Cap space is valuable. You want cap space? Pay up.

It's actually not terrible for the Caps because they gain nearly 14M in cap space.

Add #51 then and I'd bet it's closer

 

[Bryanbryoil]

So what is Mantha's deal? He used to be a hot commodity as a big goal scoring winger but has put up really poor goal numbers in Washington. Seems like a good buy low candidate if Washington would take back some salary (short term/1 year) or retain on his cap hit.

 

[sxvnert]

Gaudreau Kuznetsov Laine

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Gaudreau Kuznetsov Laine

Take him.

 

[StephenPeat]

Cap space is valuable. You want cap space? Pay up.

It's actually not terrible for the Caps because they gain nearly 14M in cap space.

Add #51 then and I'd bet it's closer

It’s horrible and no sane nor reasonable person would try to defend it. No team has ever traded a Top 10 Pick in the NHL Draft since the introduction of the Salary Cap for the sole purpose of a “Cap Dump,” ever. Washington will not become the first.

Kuznetsov is also not a Cap Dump and will certainly have value if offered around the League. He’s, at worst, a 2C in the NHL on every team. A team like Chicago could certainly do much worse (I mean he literally out-scored every single player on the 2022-23 Chicago Blackhawks in one of his worst seasons of his career). Suggesting that taking him on is a component of moving up from 19th to 8th is outright absurd. The Caps also aren’t going to trade ANY 1st to move Mantha’s contract for a season, that too is outright stupid.

 

[belfour30]

It’s horrible and no sane nor reasonable person would try to defend it. No team has ever traded a Top 10 Pick in the NHL Draft since the introduction of the Salary Cap for the sole purpose of a “Cap Dump,” ever. Washington will not become the first.

Kuznetsov is also not a Cap Dump and will certainly have value if offered around the League. He’s, at worst, a 2C in the NHL on every team. A team like Chicago could certainly do much worse (I mean he literally out-scored every single player on the 2022-23 Chicago Blackhawks in one of his worst seasons of his career). Suggesting that taking him on is a component of moving up from 19th to 8th is outright absurd. The Caps also aren’t going to trade ANY 1st to move Mantha’s contract for a season, that too is outright stupid.

How many teams actually have the cap space? That's your issue. The market is limited because of that.

I actually don't think it's absurd because the only teams that have the space to take him on are bottom feeders.

Fitting in a 7.8M cap hit while still keeping your team together, for a guy that only put up 55 pts playing with Ovechkin isn't really palatable to a contender imo. Kuznetsov has negative value.

The big issue for the Caps moving him is that only 1/3 of the league, if even that, has the space to take his contract. If the Caps were going to retain 50% then maybe they'd get some value for Kuznetsov. But at full hit? No way.

Detroit gave up the 16th pick for nothing in order to dump 1 year of Datsyuk's contract. Arizona used that to draft Chychrun. That's the kind of value I'm looking for for taking on both Kuznetsov and Mantha. And honestly, I think that moving from 19 to 8 is probably less value than a mid-1st straight up.

 

[majormajor]

Lol who gives a crap about him doing cocaine? Such a random thing to bring up to justify how you value a player

I wouldn't care if he's done it a few times, but cocaine addiction is known to suppress motivation, so when a hockey player who has been a known user later complains that he doesn't feel motivated to play hockey, it's worth wondering if there is a connection there. I'd look into whether he has been a frequent user.

 

[Guttersniped]

Bruins have been looking for a power forward since Lucic got traded, Mantha feels like someone they'd take a flyer on at 50% retained... if we had cap space.

Mantha is about as far from a Lucic style power forward as humanly possible.

I was going to say, does your definition of “power forward” involve the player ever hitting someone and not avoiding physical contact? Then Mantha isn’t a power forward.

Do you not remember the nick ritchie experiment, they're desperate lol

At least Nick Richie managed to hit people.

Spoiler: Mantha floats around.

A real chance Mantha is available as reclamation project after the Caps buy his ass out.

 

[Pigskin]

I think i'd be very tempted in Kuzy at full cap hit for Chicago's 2nd in 2023

Edit: my bad, it was Detroits 2nd offered, have to hang out for a little better

 

[Kalopsia]

How many teams actually have the cap space? That's your issue. The market is limited because of that.

I actually don't think it's absurd because the only teams that have the space to take him on are bottom feeders.

Fitting in a 7.8M cap hit while still keeping your team together, for a guy that only put up 55 pts playing with Ovechkin isn't really palatable to a contender imo. Kuznetsov has negative value.

The big issue for the Caps moving him is that only 1/3 of the league, if even that, has the space to take his contract. If the Caps were going to retain 50% then maybe they'd get some value for Kuznetsov. But at full hit? No way.

Half the league has more than 10M in cap space right now, and a quarter have more than 20M. The Caps can take salary back in the deal too, so they could do something around Girard with the Avs, Roslovic with the Blue Jackets, etc. Blackhawks fans here and on other sites have really let their imaginations run wild about cap dumps. A 55 point center who's one year removed from a point per game season and has a great playoff track record isn't a negative value at 7.8M for two more years. Look at the long term contracts that middling centers like Trocheck, Copp, or Strome got despite the flat cap last summer and tell me a center for whom 55 points is a major disappointment wouldn't get close to his current cap hit if he were a free agent signing a two year deal this July?

Detroit gave up the 16th pick for nothing in order to dump 1 year of Datsyuk's contract. Arizona used that to draft Chychrun. That's the kind of value I'm looking for for taking on both Kuznetsov and Mantha. And honestly, I think that moving from 19 to 8 is probably less value than a mid-1st straight up.

There's so much wrong with this it's hard to know where to start. Datsyuk was LTIRetired at the time, so the trade was done knowing he had literally no on-ice value, which makes him a bad comp for Kuzentsov. The bigger deal though is that you're conveniently leaving out that the Red Wings got the #20 and #53 picks back in that deal. Giving up the 53rd pick to move from 20 to 16 is pretty much fair value, which means the Coyotes took Datsyuk essentially for free because his contract was insured and they were using it to circumvent the salary cap floor. So A) Datsyuk didn't cost a mid-1st to dump, and B) his situation isn't relevant to Kuznetsov's anyway.

 

[belfour30]

Half the league has more than 10M in cap space right now, and a quarter have more than 20M. The Caps can take salary back in the deal too, so they could do something around Girard with the Avs, Roslovic with the Blue Jackets, etc. Blackhawks fans here and on other sites have really let their imaginations run wild about cap dumps. A 55 point center who's one year removed from a point per game season and has a great playoff track record isn't a negative value at 7.8M for two more years. Look at the long term contracts that middling centers like Trocheck, Copp, or Strome got despite the flat cap last summer and tell me a center for whom 55 points is a major disappointment wouldn't get close to his current cap hit if he were a free agent signing a two year deal this July?


There's so much wrong with this it's hard to know where to start. Datsyuk was LTIRetired at the time, so the trade was done knowing he had literally no on-ice value, which makes him a bad comp for Kuzentsov. The bigger deal though is that you're conveniently leaving out that the Red Wings got the #20 and #53 picks back in that deal. Giving up the 53rd pick to move from 20 to 16 is pretty much fair value, which means the Coyotes took Datsyuk essentially for free because his contract was insured and they were using it to circumvent the salary cap floor. So A) Datsyuk didn't cost a mid-1st to dump, and B) his situation isn't relevant to Kuznetsov's anyway.

Ok, I forgot Detroit got the 20th in that deal never mind then. I thought the Coyotes got 16 straight up.

 

[Esq]

Avs seems best. Great snow in Denver.

 

[MacTavish47]

EDM:
Yamamoto + pick

WSH:
Mantha (50% retain)

 

[KevinRedkey]

To OTT:
19th Overall (via CHI)
Mantha at 2.850

To COL:
Kuznetsov at 3.900

To WSH:
DeBrincat (Extended at Bratt contract)
27th Overall (via COL)
44th Overall (via CHI)

To CHI:
3.900 of Kuznetsov
2.850 of Mantha
8th Overall (via WSH)


OTT
In: 19th and Mantha @ 2.850
Out: DeBrincat

COL:
In: Kuznetsov @ 3.900
Out: 27th

WSH:
In: DeBrincat, 27th, 44th
Out: 8th, Mantha, Kuznetsov

CHI:
In: 8th, some dead cap
Out: 19th, 44th

I think it needs some balancing out, but I also feel it kind of works as a framework for all 4 teams.

 

[Calicaps]

To OTT:
19th Overall (via CHI)
Mantha at 2.850

To COL:
Kuznetsov at 3.900

To WSH:
DeBrincat (Extended at Bratt contract)
27th Overall (via COL)
44th Overall (via CHI)

To CHI:
3.900 of Kuznetsov
2.850 of Mantha
8th Overall (via WSH)


OTT
In: 19th and Mantha @ 2.850
Out: DeBrincat

COL:
In: Kuznetsov @ 3.900
Out: 27th

WSH:
In: DeBrincat, 27th, 44th
Out: 8th, Mantha, Kuznetsov

CHI:
In: 8th, some dead cap
Out: 19th, 44th

I think it needs some balancing out, but I also feel it kind of works as a framework for all 4 teams.

The Caps haven't picked top 10 in a long long time. I don't see them moving the 8OA. And I personally don't think DeBrincat is worth that, even with the extra pics and cap space. But as a proposal it's clever and the value isn't way off.

 

[cvaicunas]

mantha is that old boat, car, whatever that has issues, so you would feel bad selling it to anyone. Yes he is that worthless. Just a terd of a hockey player. Kuzy could get something of value back I would hope. Dont need any teams old washed up players back either. Picks are fine.

As a Wings fan I can support this statement. He can light it up one day and disappear the next. He truly seems like effort with him

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think they could do something like Kuznetsov/Mantha for Debrincat.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I think they could do something like Kuznetsov/Mantha for Debrincat.

how much are the Capitals retaining and what are they adding? That is almost 7.5 million of negative value between the two of them