Post-Game Talk: Capitals 3, Penguins 1 - Rage Rage Against The Dying Of the Light

[KIRK]

I mean, you'd better be giving that Geno line 4th line minutes. A badly slumping Geno with two bona fide 4th liners does not inspire a lot of confidence. But, that TB line should be unreal, so I don't know.

I have no clue what to even think anymore. I'm basically just ready for The Big Sell™ already. Trade Letang this off-season. Ask Geno if he wants to chase a 4th Cup somewhere else or if he wants to finish his contract (and probably NHL career) here. Listen to offers on Rust, Zucker, Dumo, Kap, Hell, even Jake.

I'm not sure ZAR isn't better than Zucker right now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

3. Geno's head is a mess and he's got zero confidence in himself after shitting the bed two playoffs in a row and starting this season playing miserable hockey.

Probably a combination of all three, to some degree or another.

I agree, it's just a weird way to defend Malkin. Blaming his wingers for his performance is basically admitting he's not what he once was, and if he's not what he once was, why the hell are they alright paying him what he's making?

I could get blaming the coach, where you have such a terrible coach that they're actively tanking a player's production and removing that coach would revive them. I totally get that. But to blame him on having 2 top-6 wingers that don't perfectly fit with him? If his bad play is completely excused by not playing with the perfect linemates, he's not worth even close to what they pay him.

If you want a top-6 center who gives you shitty results with the wrong linemates but good results with the right linemates, go sign Ryan Strome in free agency. Evgeni Malkin is not Ryan Strome.

Someone had a nice red herring for dinner.

Because Malkin sucks with Zucker, he's only good with perfect linemates.

You literally just argued that.

Truth be told, all of your bad takes through the years, that one may rank as the worst one yet.

Well done.

Amazing rebuttal, you've convinced me!

 

[Gurglesons]

Imagine thinking Zucker has pulled his weight this season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Imagine thinking Zucker has pulled his weight this season.

He hasn't, but he has done closer to pulling his weight than Malkin has.

I just find it really weird that people are blaming the failures of the 2nd line on a $5.5 million winger who's supposed to be a 50 point winger instead of the $9.5 million center who's supposed to be a superstar.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

I'm not sure ZAR isn't better than Zucker right now.

Shh.... Zar is the centerpiece of the Connor McDavid trade.

 

[KIRK]

I agree, it's just a weird way to defend Malkin. Blaming his wingers for his performance is basically admitting he's not what he once was, and if he's not what he once was, why the hell are they alright paying him what he's making?

I could get blaming the coach, where you have such a terrible coach that they're actively tanking a player's production and removing that coach would revive them. I totally get that. But to blame him on having 2 top-6 wingers that don't perfectly fit with him? If his bad play is completely excused by not playing with the perfect linemates, he's not worth even close to what they pay him.

If you want a top-6 center who gives you shitty results with the wrong linemates but good results with the right linemates, go sign Ryan Strome in free agency. Evgeni Malkin is not Ryan Strome.



Amazing rebuttal, you've convinced me!

I wasn't trying to convince you.

Any person who would argue, as you did, that Malkin sucking with Zucker means he's only good with perfect linemates is too obtuse and disinterested in serious conversation to be worth trying to convince of anything.

 

[Gurglesons]

He hasn't, but he has done closer to pulling his weight than Malkin has.

I just find it really weird that people are blaming the failures of the 2nd line on a $5.5 million winger who's supposed to be a 50 point winger instead of the $9.5 million center who's supposed to be a superstar.

I find it weird you think people are blaming Zucker.

Everyone is acknowledging Malkin needs to be better. Stubbornly putting together the two worst players on the team with no flexibility is what is being criticized.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I ain't mad at Geno cause he's given this franchise everything and he deserves to peter out on his own terms.

I ain't mad at Zucker because he's genuinely trying out there and it isn't his fault he's a bad fit.

I am mad at the people (first and foremost JR) who oversold Zucker as the prophesized winger that was chosen for the Penguins due to his...idk, Sheary-without-the-fall-downisms? We made it abundantly clear we were after him all last year and did a "ladies and gentlemen, we got him" after we overpaid to get the deal done.

Like he's pretty good, I guess? But have we learned nothing from Brassard that the perfect on-paper fit doesn't necessarily work out?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I find it weird you think people are blaming Zucker.

KIRK seems to be pretty directly blaming Zucker for the failures of the 2nd line to me.

I wasn't trying to convince you.

Any person who would argue, as you did, that Malkin sucking with Zucker means he's only good with perfect linemates is too obtuse and disinterested in serious conversation to be worth trying to convince of anything.

"I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just responding to your posts!"

Lol okay sure.

 

[Gurglesons]

KIRK seems to be pretty directly blaming Zucker for the failures of the 2nd line to me.



"I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just responding to your posts!"

Lol okay sure

Yes, because Zucker is the constant.

KIRK is asking our coach to try something different since as you alluded to what he’s trying isn’t working for our 9 million dollar center.

 

[KIRK]

I find it weird you think people are blaming Zucker.

Well, in some distorted worlds, if you say 'sometimes two players don't mix and it's not anyone's fault', that means you're blaming someone.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes, because Zucker is the constant.

As is Malkin, who's performing way further below his pay grade than Zucker is.

 

[Phil68]

Same song since last year. The system is broken. This is not a good system anymore. Yeah Malkin has not been great. Can't say much about about Crosby either. At their peak, either one could carry the team. NEITHER ARE there anymore. The system being played is not suitable for where Crosby or Malkin are at right now.

 

[Will Hunting]

Well, Emp. Remember, you were saying the same thing about Sid and ERod just recently. That superstar player should be able to produce with scrubs and if they don´t it´s on them. Look at what happened with Sid away from ERod. Zucker is reaching ERod territory, seriously. That said, Malkin certainly sucks himself too, but you need to help him out of that and that starts with separating him from a poison.

 

[Gurglesons]

As is Malkin, who's performing way further below his pay grade than Zucker is.

Which is why you figure out coach would move hell and high water to figure out a match for him?

How does this team benefit from Zucker and Malkin right now?

What is there to lose by trying something else at this point?

We are nearly firmly third last in the division.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Empoleon isn't interested in discussion. Anyway, the way ahead is pretty clear I just don't know if management wants to make a run this year, or let this play out and make the moves next year. If this continues they can easily justify moving on from Malkin and Letang without any fan backlash. The fan in me hopes they will go for a last run or two with the big two. I'd hate for Malkin's time here to end like this. It's been too momentous of a run for 87 and 71 for it to end with a whimper. But it happens that way sometimes.

 

[KIRK]

KIRK seems to be pretty directly blaming Zucker for the failures of the 2nd line to me.



"I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just responding to your posts!"

Lol okay sure.

I am blaming the Malkin and Zucker combination and saying it doesn't work. I don't care why.

If you consider that synonymous with me directly blaming Zucker, then I'll refer you to some further reading for clarification . . .

 

[Darren McCord]

Malkin is committing highway robbery by getting paid $9.5 million, because a player who needs specific top-6 linemates to not play like shit isn't a $9.5 million player

how many times you gona post that. You can blame Malkin all you want and he deserve blame. But this coach has done nothing to help him. When Crosby was slumping he was given the two best wingers. (Which btw he still looked like crap tonight, he was dogging it too)

why can’t malkin get help? He has never needed players but right now he does, so they should help him. If Crosby needs Jake and rust not to play like dogshit why does he get a pass?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well, Emp. Remember, you were saying the same thing about Sid and ERod just recently. That superstar player should be able to produce with scrubs and if they don´t it´s on them. Look at what happened with Sid away from ERod. Zucker is reaching ERod territory, seriously. That said, Malkin certainly sucks himself too, but you need to help him out of that and that starts with separating him from a poison.

Yes, I was saying the same thing about Crosby and Rodrigues recently. But I think this is an even more extreme example, because Zucker is actually good.

In my opinion, guys like Crosby and Malkin should still be able to produce with scrubs like Rodrigues because of what they used to be and because of what they're paid to do. So you really expect me to just give Malkin a pass because Zucker, who should be a consistent 50 point guy in Pittsburgh, doesn't mesh well with Malkin? Not a chance.

I'd be a lot more lenient towards Malkin if he was playing with Rodrigues, but he and Zucker should be performing way better as a duo because Zucker is way better than ERod is.

 

[ColePens]

I'm talking about Sullivan and the organization. The team has potential and we only need a few pieces. But this coach shows no sign of being able to put them together. There are line combinations that have not been tried at all that could help but because Sullivan can't stand being wrong he will not try them. Players are individuals out there.

Oh f***ing amen. 10000000000000000000000% agree. We are on the same page here.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, I was saying the same thing about Crosby and Rodrigues recently. But I think this is an even more extreme example, because Zucker is actually good.

In my opinion, guys like Crosby and Malkin should still be able to produce with scrubs like Rodrigues because of what they used to be and because of what they're paid to do. So you really expect me to just give Malkin a pass because Zucker, who should be a consistent 50 point guy in Pittsburgh, doesn't mesh well with Malkin? Not a chance.

I'd be a lot more lenient towards Malkin if he was playing with Rodrigues, but he and Zucker should be performing way better as a duo because Zucker is way better than ERod is.

I’d love to see by what metric zucker is good this year.

Zucker is the worst forward on this team from a what was expected from him stand point.

 

[Empoleon8771]

how many times you gona post that. You can blame Malkin all you want and he deserve blame. But this coach has done nothing to help him. When Crosby was slumping he was given the two best wingers. (Which btw he still looked like crap tonight, he was dogging it too)

why can’t malkin get help? He has never needed players but right now he does, so they should help him. If Crosby needs Jake and rust not to play like dogshit why does he get a pass?

Until Evgeni Malkin stops playing like a 3rd line center?

I guess I just have ridiculous expectations for a center that's making nearly $10 million a year or something, because "he doesn't mesh well with his linemates" doesn't count as a legitimate excuse for his play to me.

 

[Will Hunting]

Yes, I was saying the same thing about Crosby and Rodrigues recently. But I think this is an even more extreme example, because Zucker is actually good.

In my opinion, guys like Crosby and Malkin should still be able to produce with scrubs like Rodrigues because of what they used to be and because of what they're paid to do. So you really expect me to just give Malkin a pass because Zucker, who should be a consistent 50 point guy in Pittsburgh, doesn't mesh well with Malkin? Not a chance.

I'd be a lot more lenient towards Malkin if he was playing with Rodrigues, but he and Zucker should be performing way better as a duo because Zucker is way better than ERod is.

Is he, though?? I am not sure and he certainly doesn´t play like that.

 

[KIRK]

Well, Emp. Remember, you were saying the same thing about Sid and ERod just recently. That superstar player should be able to produce with scrubs and if they don´t it´s on them. Look at what happened with Sid away from ERod. Zucker is reaching ERod territory, seriously. That said, Malkin certainly sucks himself too, but you need to help him out of that and that starts with separating him from a poison.

And as I've said multiple times, there's no guarantee that will make a difference either.

BUT, Zucker has been the one constant in the worst stretch of hockey in Malkin's career.

Tweak with things and see what happens, if only because you may get a clearer indication of where things stand with Malkin.

 

[KIRK]

Is he, though?? I am not sure and he certainly doesn´t play like that.

Well, @Empoleon8771 knows why Zucker found himself on the 4th line in Minnesota, and it had nothing to do with hockey.