Proposal: Cap Casualties & Dumps To/From other team(s).

[Cogburn]

Montreal has forward depth as well. THis season they've had 15 forwards that have been on their roster this year that have paced at least 20 points. So Eriksson has 0 value to them as well. So taking on Eriksson does nothing for them except adding more cap liability.

Hence the lol.

I still feel the lol is trying to boost Alzner as an asset. Both are laughably bad, the difference between them is slim, cap hits included.

As bad as Eriksson is, he has at least contributed something to this team, as marginal and overpaid as he is, versus 167 games and 13 points in three seasons.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I still feel the lol is trying to boost Alzner as an asset. Both are laughably bad, the difference between them is slim, cap hits included.

As bad as Eriksson is, he has at least contributed something to this team, as marginal and overpaid as he is, versus 167 games and 13 points in three seasons.

Its not. I'm not trying to sell Alzner, my preference is that Montreal just hang on to Alzner since: (a) LD is an area of need; (b) Alzner works as a filler piece for the next couple of seasons who is a good role model in the AHL; (c) Montreal doesn't need the cap space; (d) they can buy him out when they might need the cap space; and (e) the benefit of moving him isn't worth the cost in Montreal's present situation.

I'm more just not buying your attempts to boost Eriksson. The interpretation shouldn't be "As bad as Eriksson is, he has at least contributed something" and should be "Montreal has no problem sending vets that are dramatically under-performing their contracts to the AHL".

And lets be real here, even when Alzner's value (such that it was) was higher, he was never a point producer, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove there. His production in his full season in Montreal isn't all that far off what it was in Washington the season prior. Also, he's only played 95 games in Montreal.

 

[Scintillating10]

No don't want Vlasuck.

Were you actually drunk while posting Drunk? Sharks are not looking to trade Karlsson at all.

Alzner with a decent/large plus for Vlasic could work. That's about it.

 

[Cogburn]

Its not. I'm not trying to sell Alzner, my preference is that Montreal just hang on to Alzner since: (a) LD is an area of need; (b) Alzner works as a filler piece for the next couple of seasons who is a good role model in the AHL; (c) Montreal doesn't need the cap space; (d) they can buy him out when they might need the cap space; and (e) the benefit of moving him isn't worth the cost in Montreal's present situation.

I'm more just not buying your attempts to boost Eriksson. The interpretation shouldn't be "As bad as Eriksson is, he has at least contributed something" and should be "Montreal has no problem sending vets that are dramatically under-performing their contracts to the AHL".

And lets be real here, even when Alzner's value (such that it was) was higher, he was never a point producer, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove there. His production in his full season in Montreal isn't all that far off what it was in Washington the season prior. Also, he's only played 95 games in Montreal.

Area of need is a fine reason to not do this trade. If that's all that was said, I'd have agreed and bowed out.

I can boost Eriksson all I care to, but even 100 x 0 is 0. The guy is not worth anything. His contract makes him a huge liability despite what ever on ice contributions he makes. I'm just saying Alzner is just as bad, contracts included.

Points wise, yeah, Alzner is not the guy to rate based on points, but even with that in mind, that's some low totals. You're absolutely right though, I added the AHL games to his first season in the NHL. That's absolutely bad totals on my part.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Area of need is a fine reason to not do this trade. If that's all that was said, I'd have agreed and bowed out.

I can boost Eriksson all I care to, but even 100 x 0 is 0. The guy is not worth anything. His contract makes him a huge liability despite what ever on ice contributions he makes. I'm just saying Alzner is just as bad, contracts included.

Points wise, yeah, Alzner is not the guy to rate based on points, but even with that in mind, that's some low totals. You're absolutely right though, I added the AHL games to his first season in the NHL. That's absolutely bad totals on my part.

Right.

100x0 is 0.

Which is why its not that Alzner is just as bad as Eriksson, contracts included. I don't really want either, but 2 x 4.65 mil with a weak NTC is preferable to 2 x 6 mil with a full NTC.

My major point I'm trying to make is the idea that Alzner can't cut it in the NHL, but guys like Eriksson and Beagle can isn't really the way the Canadiens organization looks at it and they likely wont attach value to it. They might make a basically even cap/term swap for Alzner to get him another opportunity, but they probably aren't going look at Eriksson and think that he gives them more than Alzner does. Because he doesn't.

 

[Cogburn]

Right.

100x0 is 0.

Which is why its not that Alzner is just as bad as Eriksson, contracts included. I don't really want either, but 2 x 4.65 mil with a weak NTC is preferable to 2 x 6 mil with a full NTC.

My major point I'm trying to make is the idea that Alzner can't cut it in the NHL, but guys like Eriksson and Beagle can isn't really the way the Canadiens organization looks at it and they likely wont attach value to it. They might make a basically even cap/term swap for Alzner to get him another opportunity, but they probably aren't going look at Eriksson and think that he gives them more than Alzner does. Because he doesn't.

We have a number of young players pushing for Eriksson's spot, and he has maintained a spot in the line up. He's cutting it in the NHL, in a sloppy, loose, horrendously overpaid fashion. Alzner has played more games in the AHL than the NHL. I don't think either player is really going to help their team, but that for a 1.3 cap hit difference, a filler 4th liner could be more valuable to a team then the 4.7 sitting on the bench or 3.7 in the minors. If Montreal has a number of players that can fill that role already, then I agree it is a bad fit. Not laughable, that was my key response, but definitely not a trade to be made unless there is some kind of bigger picture thing I can't fathom.

Beagle, while also being overpaid, is taking faceoffs and crap minutes away from Gaudette, Horvat and Pettersson, so I know my fellow Canucks fan I was responding too originally had him in a proposal, but personally I think he's still contributing, even at his cap hit.

I think we are more or less on the same page as far as neither team not benefiting from this.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

You have to factor Hossa into the equation first, since he will be on LTIR. If the Coyotes are say at $65 mill committed for next season, that would include Hossa at $5 mill. So, they actually are at $60 mill, assuming they spend to the cap ceiling. But, it does make things easier for them if they move him.

@StreetHawk

Wings can take him, what is your/AZ offer?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I think the Blues are going to try to convince Steen to retire. And getting rid of the Allen contract shouldn't cost much more than a 2nd round pick. It's one year and Allen is still a serviceable goalie.

@HotTubHordichuk

That'd be a major slap in the face to a longtime fan favorite & heart & soul guy. I would hate to think any team would do that under that circumstance & similar caliber quality vet.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

What would it cost to trade Zack Smith @50% on a one year deal? At 1.625M he's a good 4th liner.

What'd you have in mind? Maybe attach a 3rd?

 

[deca guard]

as a red wing fan im thinking of getting a lefty d prospect thats projected to be a smart , good skating , legit sized , 2nd pairing guy that isnt looking to be anything more than a average point guy and thusly seen as a #4 . plan is to play him with hronek . i will take back a big 2 year contract for him . though im also interested in draft pix and a big bodied goalie prospect

 

[Baksfamous112]

Were you actually drunk while posting Drunk? Sharks are not looking to trade Karlsson at all.

Alzner with a decent/large plus for Vlasic could work. That's about it.

No. Even Vlasic with a decent/large plus is a non-starter.. even for Alzner.

Ya’ll are stuck with this contract.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I still feel the lol is trying to boost Alzner as an asset. Both are laughably bad, the difference between them is slim, cap hits included.

As bad as Eriksson is, he has at least contributed something to this team, as marginal and overpaid as he is, versus 167 games and 13 points in three seasons.

Yes, they are. I think both, at this point, are borderline NHL player/AHL quality. My issue is the 1.5M extra a year on the cap that burden Eriksson. Montreal has the possibility to make a great move this summer because they managed their cap space very well. I wouldn’t want my team to destroy that opportunity because they felt a minor upgrade between two players that are done was necessary.

 

[Marky9er]

as a red wing fan im thinking of getting a lefty d prospect thats projected to be a smart , good skating , legit sized , 2nd pairing guy that isnt looking to be anything more than a average point guy and thusly seen as a #4 . plan is to play him with hronek . i will take back a big 2 year contract for him . though im also interested in draft pix and a big bodied goalie prospect

Yes, yes. Please VCR give us Rathbone on D, please STL give us Hofer in goal, and we'll take each of your cap problems too.

Also as a formality I must ask for all your draft picks so my fellow fans don't get angry.

 

[StreetHawk]

@StreetHawk

Wings can take him, what is your/AZ offer?

Hard to say what AZ would offer. Comes down to whether they can extend Hall. If they can't then they likely don't need to dump Hossa.

If I am AZ, I target Ottawa for the destination for Hossa if the Sens are watching their budget and wanting to just hit the cap floor, while paying the lowest amount of cash. Hossa will cost them $200K in cash to cover the non-insured portion of his contract. If there are limited fans for 20-21, then that's very possible that Ottawa seeks out these remaining back diving deals (like Zetterberg as well), to pay as little as possible, while just hitting the cap floor, similar to this season.

 

[Nolan11]

No. Even Vlasic with a decent/large plus is a non-starter.. even for Alzner.

Ya’ll are stuck with this contract.

Happy to have Vlasic playing in teal, well, whenever team teal gets to play again. He is still a good defenseman, just no longer top pairing good. Unlike most of SJ fans, I don't begrudge him his seven million per year. Throughout his career, Vlasic outplayed his contract by a lot. Now he is not, but the combined career is all worth it.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Were you actually drunk while posting Drunk? Sharks are not looking to trade Karlsson at all.

Alzner with a decent/large plus for Vlasic could work. That's about it.

You are stuck with Vlasic’s nuclear contract til you decide to buy it out. There I no sweetener sweet enough to entice me take that boat anchor. Habs are happy to ride out Alzner’s remaining 2 years.

 

[Cogburn]

as a red wing fan im thinking of getting a lefty d prospect thats projected to be a smart , good skating , legit sized , 2nd pairing guy that isnt looking to be anything more than a average point guy and thusly seen as a #4 . plan is to play him with hronek . i will take back a big 2 year contract for him . though im also interested in draft pix and a big bodied goalie prospect

Eriksson and Juolevi for a pittance?

 

[Cogburn]

Yes, yes. Please VCR give us Rathbone on D, please STL give us Hofer in goal, and we'll take each of your cap problems too.

Also as a formality I must ask for all your draft picks so my fellow fans don't get angry.

We just signed Rathbone...he's probably not going to be included in any deal for now...at least until we see what we have.

 

[Cogburn]

Yes, they are. I think both, at this point, are borderline NHL player/AHL quality. My issue is the 1.5M extra a year on the cap that burden Eriksson. Montreal has the possibility to make a great move this summer because they managed their cap space very well. I wouldn’t want my team to destroy that opportunity because they felt a minor upgrade between two players that are done was necessary.

Not that I'm pushing for the trade to happen, but 1.5 isn't awful for a veteran fourth liner. It's not great, but 1.5 million shouldn't sink a teams cap structure if it's well managed (not that I'm claiming Montreal's system is otherwise).

It's a bad fit for two awful contracts, and I think we can leave agreeing on that.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

1.3 million dollars difference for a 4th line (some still somehow argue 3rd line) forward that scores 20ish points isn't outlandish.

Let's not overlook the fact we have depth LD in Vancouver coming out the wazoo, so Alzner has 0 value to us as a roster asset. So taking Alzner does nothing for us, save the slight cap savings.

Erickson would be just as useless as Alzner on the Habs. Nicks would have to add a sweetener to take on the extra cap.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Yup.

I think thet should, too, but they might look to offload him and have a go with another player vastly underperforming relative to their contract and be "competitive"

Just as an example, a guy like Loui Eriksson.

Eriksson is better than Alzner, but it saves the canucks 1.4 and they might not have to ship off a 1st, a promising prospect, or both to get rid of Eriksson. Might only cost a 2nd, or 3rd in 2022.

Erickson's last good season was with Boston under Julien I believe.

Habs fans seem to think because we have a lot of ufas after next season we don't want cap problems, but most of them aren't young players. They're players we already have and this team still sucks.

Maybe Eriksson reaches 20/20 with Montreal. They trade him at 50, or a little less at 40% retained and Montreal is now saving on the cap because at 50, he's only 3 mill hit where Alzner even in the minors would be around 3.6

I wouldn't get your hopes up on Eriksson reaching 20/20. He had 8 points in 28 games playing with Horvat this year. Almost half his points this year were with an empty. He is still good defensively but, his offence is done.

 

[deca guard]

Eriksson and Juolevi for a pittance?

im not deep enough into the nhl to know this prospects worth

 

[HoweHullOrr]

With hossa out of the cap equation it brings them to 74 million. Also doesnt the LTIR cap count for the offseason where the team can only go a certain amount over? Genuinely asking

Yes, they can go over cap by 10% in the offseason, but must be cap compliant once the season starts.

If I'm a team that has sufficient cap room, I would try for younger (mid 23 - 25 year olds approx) players that play for good teams and that are stuck behind other players on the other team's roster.

I wouldn't be looking at cap dumps, or at least, they definitely wouldn't be my first target.

Even then, I would be squeezing pretty hard for either prospects or picks, not just taking on the dump for 50% retained (or whatever percentage). Hence, the idea of a Stephan for Anisimov swap would be a much lower priority type trade if I were the Ottawa GM. Circle back to it and squeeze harder on the Yotes if you had to, but that would be about it.

 

[Cogburn]

im not deep enough into the nhl to know this prospects worth

Former 5th overall pick, injury trifecta of knee hip and back in each of his last three seasons, still shows enough hints he's ready for an NHL shot, but he keeps getting buried. Probably not the top 4 anchor most fans are hoping he becomes, and definitely not the top pairing fixture management had hoped for, but as a second pairing rounded D man he is on track....barring another freak injury. He does everything reasonably well, but needs to work on his mobility following his last surgery, but the others didn't slow him down for long.

 

[McSuper]

how long is he signed for?

1 more year plus his bonus is paid so he owed 1.5 million while carrying a 4 million dollar cap hit