Pre-Game Talk: Canucks vs Senators. 7.30 pm ET

[Pierre from Orleans]

I hope Murray trades Cowen cause he is 22 and makes mistakes. Then when he is 25 and an absolute beast playing #1 minutes for whatever team we trade him to I can LOL at all of the Cowen haters when they cry that we should of kept him. Also I hope we get a pick that pans out to nothing and a player with the offensive skills of Erik Condra and defensive skills of Matt Kassian.

This. People rag on Cowen but forget how young the guy is. He will be a beast one he fixes some minor things. Defencemen his size, you just dont let go especially this early in their careers.

 

[bert]

To put things in context, if we assume that Lehner's stats would be the same if he played in the games Anderson played in, we would have let in 31 goals in those games rather than 51.

That is more than a goal per game difference between the two goalies. Instead of being sixth last in the in goals against, we would be tied for fifth.

That's not how it works, the team has been pitiful in front of Anderson. They have a bad habit of giving up 5 to 6 glorious chances in the first 10 minutes of every game what do you expect exactly?

 

[bert]

This. People rag on Cowen but forget how young the guy is. He will be a beast one he fixes some minor things. Defencemen his size, you just dont let go especially this early in their careers.

While I agree that younger D take time, especially big guys. The things he needs fixing are not minor. Hockey sense is not taught, the only way its developed is by bringing him along slowly. He has been his own worse enemy in that regard, the other issue I have with him is when he is yelling at the ref for taking a bad penalty. Or when he starts pointing at players in the D zone. This means he is not holding himself accountable, meaning its very hard to develop if you cant see whats wrong with your own game. Which also leads me to believe on top of lacking hockey sense he isn't very intelligent.

 

[Back in Black]

GO GO

 

[Pangu]

It's a stretch to assume that his stats would remain the same given his lighter weaker opponents and his poor games he's already had in that lighter assignment.

His numbers have been consistent for the last 3 years and he has been at his best when he played because the starter was injured. He also played great against tougher west coast teams at the start of the season.

 

[Pangu]

That's not how it works, the team has been pitiful in front of Anderson. They have a bad habit of giving up 5 to 6 glorious chances in the first 10 minutes of every game what do you expect exactly?

I expect him to stop almost all of them if he is going to be the best goalie in the NHL. Lehner's numbers in the last 4 years are probably the best in that time - with the big caveat that the sample size was super small. If Anderson can't play to Lehner's level, then see how far Lehner can go.

Another fun stat: In the last two years, Lehner has played 23 legit games (like more than 5 SA) and had a worse save% in four of them than Anderson's career average save%.

 

[bert]

Rangers fan coming in peace. So is Cowen for Del Zotto fair in your eyes?

Can Cowen play RD?

That's the issue no one can. I highly doubt the sens would do that they have Wiercioch already with Ceci and Wideman in the minors don't need more offensive D men. They need a sold right handed D that plays big minutes consistently.

 

[bert]

I expect him to stop almost all of them if he is going to be the best goalie in the NHL. Lehner's numbers in the last 4 years are probably the best in that time - with the big caveat that the sample size was super small. If Anderson can't play to Lehner's level, then see how far Lehner can go.

How far do you think a team goes that gives up quality scoring chances at the start of every game? Doesn't matter who the goalie is maybe they are hot for a bit but no one is super man.

My point is focusing on the goalie is like watching the sens blind, its not the problem. If the players infront of them played with a lead maybe it will help with the confidence. Every game going in knowing you will get peppered wears on a players psychy. Frankly I am glad they don't just throw Lehner to the wolves, it could damage him for a long time. Its player development, look at Dubnyk, he was good last year now he cant stop a beachball. Only so much an individual can take, especially a young player in a position that takes the longest to develop.

 

[burf]

Rangers fan coming in peace. So is Cowen for Del Zotto fair in your eyes?

Can Cowen play RD?

The Rangers would be getting the worse end of the deal, and neither team would address their needs (both teams need a 2nd pairing RD, and neither of those guys plays RD)

 

[Nordic*]

Rangers fan coming in peace. So is Cowen for Del Zotto fair in your eyes?

Can Cowen play RD?

MDZ is a free agent after this season, while Cowen is tied up until 2016-2017.

NYR needs to throw something else in the mix. How about Oscar Lindberg?

Btw, Cowen is horrible, haha..

 

[Nordic*]

I really, REALLY like Anton Stralman though. I believe he's severely underrated.

I'd do Stralman for Cowen without thinking twice.

He's got what Cowen, Gryba, Wiercioch, Phillips and even Methot lacks - intelligence and vision.

Given age and free agency coming up. Give us Stralman + 3rd and you get Cowen.


Deal?

 

[Tampacuseforever]

While I agree that younger D take time, especially big guys. The things he needs fixing are not minor. Hockey sense is not taught, the only way its developed is by bringing him along slowly. He has been his own worse enemy in that regard, the other issue I have with him is when he is yelling at the ref for taking a bad penalty. Or when he starts pointing at players in the D zone. This means he is not holding himself accountable, meaning its very hard to develop if you cant see whats wrong with your own game. Which also leads me to believe on top of lacking hockey sense he isn't very intelligent.

Ah come on Bert a little harsh, most players ***** when they get penalties I think it's more out of frustration. He hasn't been good at all and it has just snowballed. That west coast trip at the beginning of the year really did a number with some guys confidence and I think he's at the top
Of the list. I agree with not being able to teach hockey sense but I feel he is over thinking and not just reacting a sign of no confidence.

 

[Lehner]

I really, REALLY like Anton Stralman though. I believe he's severely underrated.

I'd do Stralman for Cowen without thinking twice.

He's got what Cowen, Gryba, Wiercioch, Phillips and even Methot lacks - intelligence and vision.

Given age and free agency coming up. Give us Stralman + 3rd and you get Cowen.


Deal?

Not at all, Stralman isnt even close to Cowen.

 

[Nordic*]

Not at all, Stralman isnt even close to Cowen.

You are right, he's much better.

 

[Topside]

You are right, he's much better.

Strahlman could be had for much, much cheaper than Cowen.

 

[Hammertyme]

I hope Murray trades Cowen cause he is 22 and makes mistakes. Then when he is 25 and an absolute beast playing #1 minutes for whatever team we trade him to I can LOL at all of the Cowen haters when they cry that we should of kept him. Also I hope we get a pick that pans out to nothing and a player with the offensive skills of Erik Condra and defensive skills of Matt Kassian.

Cowen's going nowhere. The fact is the team committed more than he is worth right now but the commitment is there. He should have sat a long time ago. One game isn't going to hurt him as he still gets paid whether he plays or not. $19000/game for sitting around and getting a rest. You guys can ***** all you want.

 

[Nordic*]

Strahlman could be had for much, much cheaper than Cowen.

I agree. That's why I said he was underrated and that NYR should throw in a 3rd rounder.

Stralman is fourth in ice-time on his team, and their defence is on a whole other level than ours looking at guys like McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, MDZ (aside from Anton).

He would be our #2 or #3 at this point. Could Cowen be better in the future? Possibly, since he's 4 years younger, but right now I'd pick Stralman easily - and as a 27 year old he's just coming into his prime years. He's also the only defenceman on the team with a positive +/- rating.

Take it for what it is, which is an opinion.

 

[NyQuil]

Hedman is starting to come around.

You just have to be patient with these big guys.

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Hedman is starting to come around.

You just have to be patient with these big guys.

Hedman has a brain and soft hands.

 

[NyQuil]

Hedman has a brain and soft hands.

It wasn't that long ago that he was completely toxic in every way.

 

[Spez]

It also wasn't that long ago that a young D-man named Chara was looking like a bust on the Island before a certain coach got ahold of him and taught him to play like a beast. Sometimes it takes time and sometimes it takes having a good D coach. Cowen looks like he needs a Jacques Martin type D coach to help guide him more than anything.

It's too early to give up on Cowen. Not saying he will be the next Chara but you also don't want to give up on him so early only for him to become a great D-man down the road for another team. The same people calling for Cowen's head would bash Murray for giving up on him too soon if that happened.

 

[Disclose]

is this tonite?

edit: ok. it is.... go sens go i guess.

 

[Sarcasticus]

So should someone maybe think about whipping up a GDT?

 

[Back in Black]

Cowen is a healthy scratch????

 

[WORLDSTARHIPHOP]

Can this be in the next GDT?