Confirmed with Link: Canucks trade Dickinson & 2nd (2024) to Chicago for Riley Stillman

[me2]

They work and they dont work.. point is to get good players

Most of the cups go to teams that tanked at don't point in the cycle. tank talent + surrounding talent. It's easy to fail a tank and fail the surrounding talent and be tanking again straight away. That describes the most of the Benning era.

 

[Tomatoes11]

delete

 

[Bubbles]

Hughes & Pettersson.

LA finished bottom 5 for 3 years, it got them Hickey, Doughty & Schenn. How is that a great example? Kopitar & Quick weren't lottery picks.

I guess you forgot Schenn was traded for Richards, who helped win them 2 cups.

Ottawa may not turn into a contender with the guys they are projecting. DeBrincat isn't signed, Chabot is as old as Boeser, Stutzle has to take steps, they don't have a goalie, exc.

They are 4 years in. But they are set for basically the next 8 years with that core, all reasonably signed.

EDM was still floundering after 3 first overall picks until they lucked into a top 5 player of all time. I don't see that available to us.

I guess you don't follow the draft at all. A kid named Bedard, from North Van ring a bell? No?

We have a young #1C, young #1D, and young #1G all whom have just entered their prime. Getting those pieces is the reason you tank in the first place. Ottawa doesn't have all 3, Montreal doesn't have all 3, Edmonton doesn't have all 3. No guarantee we would get it again by blowing this up.

That is your opinion on how to build a team. Colorado just proved they just needed solid goaltending to win a cup, not necessarily a top paid player. So a #1C, #1D and #1G is all you need to make a Stanley Cup contender?

 

[andora]

I guess you forgot Schenn was traded for Richards, who helped win them 2 cups.



They are 4 years in. But they are set for basically the next 8 years with that core, all reasonably signed.



I guess you don't follow the draft at all. A kid named Bedard, from North Van ring a bell? No?


That is your opinion on how to build a team. Colorado just proved they just needed solid goaltending to win a cup, not necessarily a top paid player. So a #1C, #1D and #1G is all you need to make a Stanley Cup contender?

In what universe could we have moved enough contracts to make us worse than chicago arizona and montreal

 

[rypper]

I guess you don't follow the draft at all. A kid named Bedard, from North Van ring a bell? No?

Lol.

 

[Tomatoes11]

You are talking about taking a step back for way more than one season... and a huge step back too.

We were 5th in a weak division last season. How much of a step back would we take really? And think of what our return would be and what we do with the freed up cap space the following season. It wouldn’t be as big of a step back as you think, at least not big enough to matter in the grand scheme of things. Heck, there’s a small chance we take a step forward from 5th in our division as soon as the year after our tank year.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Thinking Pettersson and Hughes won't walk if we completely rebuild is incredibly wishful and pretty stupid to think honestly

Yup. Considering no NHL team in the past 40 years or more has ever loss their players because they wouldn’t push their chips in it must be pretty stupid …not. Lol your reply on the other hand…

Also, it wouldn’t be a complete rebuild.

 

[Tomatoes11]

In what universe could we have moved enough contracts to make us worse than chicago arizona and montreal

It’s a lottery and we were 5th in a weak division. we wouldn’t have the best odds at Bedard but it’s not impossible. Besides, the draft is so strong whoever we get has a decent chance of replacing one of Boeser, miller, or Horvat instantly even if it’s not Bedard.

 

[TruGr1t]

In what universe could we have moved enough contracts to make us worse than chicago arizona and montreal

This argument always bothered me. The exercise is about amassing picks and maximizing your ability to add depth and quality throughout the system. The "tank for X prospect" is just a meme. Having a chance at Bedard, for discussion, would likely come along with an above average quantity of picks in the first three rounds, as well as superior draft position. We've seen this numerous times ... a really good draft can change an organization. And it's not always because you get a generational player.

The Canucks are playing a dangerous game with basically no prospect system, and also apparently no interest in adding draft picks.

 

[Bubbles]

Yup. Considering no NHL team in the past 40 years or more has ever loss their players because they wouldn’t push their chips in it must be pretty stupid …not. Lol your reply on the other hand…

Also, it wouldn’t be a complete rebuild.

The problem with some Canuck fans is that they think there is no other NHL teams out there with young, exciting players as well. They get sentimental about players and suddenly become "untouchable". "Top 5 forward depth" and all that.

If the right trade was there, wouldn't you look at it? If you could trade a forward for two slightly "lesser" players, say a forward and a defenseman, wouldn't you do it?

Bryan McCabe was set to be our no.1 defenseman for years...but we traded him to get the Sedins.

 

[Tomatoes11]

The problem with some Canuck fans is that they think there is no other NHL teams out there with young, exciting players as well. They get sentimental about players and suddenly become "untouchable". "Top 5 forward depth" and all that.

If the right trade was there, wouldn't you look at it? If you could trade a forward for two slightly "lesser" players, say a forward and a defenseman, wouldn't you do it?

Bryan McCabe was set to be our no.1 defenseman for years...but we traded him to get the Sedins.

Yup exactly, sometimes you have to trade people if they make too much. You have to maximize your cap space especially with our terrible D.

It‘s almost as if they have no faith in EP, demko, Hughes, podz, hogz, kuzmenko, mikayev, Garland, lekkermakI, rathbone etc taking the necessary steps and growing without Miller, Horvat, and Boeser. Thus freeing up valuable cap space and replenishing our farm. Sure it might take awhile but no pain no gain and even jr said 2-3 years and they aren’t going after JR’s head like they are ours. lol

 

[andora]

This argument always bothered me. The exercise is about amassing picks and maximizing your ability to add depth and quality throughout the system. The "tank for X prospect" is just a meme. Having a chance at Bedard, for discussion, would likely come along with an above average quantity of picks in the first three rounds, as well as superior draft position. We've seen this numerous times ... a really good draft can change an organization. And it's not always because you get a generational player.

The Canucks are playing a dangerous game with basically no prospect system, and also apparently no interest in adding draft picks.

i get what you're saying - but they are pick neutral. when we are down 3 or 4 again maybe i'll start buying

 

[racerjoe]

We were 5th in a weak division last season. How much of a step back would we take really? And think of what our return would be and what we do with the freed up cap space the following season. It wouldn’t be as big of a step back as you think, at least not big enough to matter in the grand scheme of things. Heck, there’s a small chance we take a step forward from 5th in our division as soon as the year after our tank year.

5th in a Div with 92 points. Plus it seems like a main reason for not at least trading Miller was the return wasn't there. see the weak rumoured return from NYR. Why would Kuze stay with us next season if we traded those players and were rebuilding. players push out of bad teams all the time, see Nash and CBJ or any number of players from the yotes, Sabres and other bad teams, or they are just traded before it gets there because they are bad teams.

Cap space is great, but who is signing with losing teams? Good players don't sign for teams that are bad for long periods of time. You still need assets to trade for players.

I was for trading Miller and probably a winger when the offseason started. However it is very clear this just wasn't going to get us anything we needed. I haven't been happy with all the moves, but at least every move I can understand the thinking.

 

[Tomatoes11]

5th in a Div with 92 points. Plus it seems like a main reason for not at least trading Miller was the return wasn't there. see the weak rumoured return from NYR. Why would Kuze stay with us next season if we traded those players and were rebuilding. players push out of bad teams all the time, see Nash and CBJ or any number of players from the yotes, Sabres and other bad teams, or they are just traded before it gets there because they are bad teams.

Cap space is great, but who is signing with losing teams? Good players don't sign for teams that are bad for long periods of time. You still need assets to trade for players.

I was for trading Miller and probably a winger when the offseason started. However it is very clear this just wasn't going to get us anything we needed. I haven't been happy with all the moves, but at least every move I can understand the thinking.

Nash stayed on with CBJ a for a very very very long time until CBJ decided to let him try for a cup. Nash didn’t want out, it was mutual. It was similar to Bourque and Blake getting a cup with the avs. They didn’t bail, the teams rewarded them for their loyalty by trading them to a contender. No one from the sabers bailed except Eichel and I already said that was about his health/back. Doan stayed with the yotes forever. The truth is it’s very hard to leave the team that developed you and gave you your shot. Which is why it’s pretty funny how people use EP might bail as an excuse for terrible short sighted moves and signings. Lol

And you don’t have to sign anyone right away. You can weaponize it like getting patches, a ppg winger, for free or getting more draft picks by taking up bad contracts to speed up the reetool or rebuild. Lots of things to do with cap like not pissing away a second to cap dump Dickinson. Worry about the cap when you are actual contenders and need to use all of it.

Also we are not going to be so bad that people wouldn’t touch us with a ten foot pole if we let free agents that price themselves out go. The core is still there with ep, demko, and Hughes with a lot of promising wingers.

 

[andora]

Nash stayed on with CBJ a for a very very very long time until CBJ decided to let him try for a cup. Nash didn’t want out, it was mutual. It was similar to Bourque and Blake getting a cup with the avs. They didn’t bail, the teams rewarded them for their loyalty by trading them to a contender. No one from the sabers bailed except Eichel and I already said that was about his health/back. Doan stayed with the yotes forever. The truth is it’s very hard to leave the team that developed you and gave you your shot. Which is why it’s pretty funny how people use EP might bail as an excuse for terrible short sighted moves and signings. Lol

And you don’t have to sign anyone right away. You can weaponize it like getting patches a ppg winger for free or getting more draft picks by taking up bad contracts to speed up the reetool or rebuild. Lots of things to do with cap like not pissing away a second to cap dump Dickinson.

Again who is eating all of this money? All of these contracts? Two of them horvat and Miller coming with big extensions.

 

[rypper]

Ottawa toyed with trading Karlsson all year, in turn Mark Stone wouldn't commit long term. He took the team to arbitration, and took a 1 year deal that would walk him to free agency. The team traded him later that season.

Ottawa was a mess in itself, but the question about dumping Erik Karlsson, led to Mark Stone not wanting to commit to staying in Ottawa. He didn't demand a trade but he created a path to getting himself out as soon as he could (very similar to what Pettersson could do.)

 

[MS]

Thinking Pettersson and Hughes won't walk if we completely rebuild is incredibly wishful and pretty stupid to think honestly

I think I’m actually losing IQ points reading this fantasy videogame rubbish.

It’s no different than spamming threads saying we should trade for McDavid and Makar.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Ottawa toyed with trading Karlsson all year, in turn Mark Stone wouldn't commit long term. He took the team to arbitration, and took a 1 year deal that would walk him to free agency. The team traded him later that season.

Ottawa was a mess in itself, but the question about dumping Erik Karlsson, led to Mark Stone not wanting to commit to staying in Ottawa. He didn't demand a trade but he created a path to getting himself out as soon as he could (very similar to what Pettersson could do.)

Good example, I missed that one. However, trading Karlsson would be like trading Hughes, the most important player on your team and a core CORE piece. miller, Horvat ,and Boeser are way more tertiary than core pieces that you can’t live without .

I think I’m actually losing IQ points reading this fantasy videogame rubbish.

It’s no different than spamming threads saying we should trade for McDavid and Makar.

Torally different and you need to keep your mind busier if you don’t see how they are completely different.

 

[MS]

Good example, I missed that one. However, trading Karlsson would be like trading Hughes, the most important player on your team and a core CORE piece. miller, Horvat ,and Boeser are way more tertiary than core pieces that you can’t live without .


Torally different and you need to keep your mind busier if you don’t see how they are completely different.

It’s totally unrealistic, it isn’t going to happen, it would never happen for any NHL team in our situation ever, and spamming threads with this rubbish is just wasting everyone’s time.

 

[Bubbles]

Yup exactly, sometimes you have to trade people if they make too much. You have to maximize your cap space especially with our terrible D.

It‘s almost as if they have no faith in EP, demko, Hughes, podz, hogz, kuzmenko, mikayev, Garland, lekkermakI, rathbone etc taking the necessary steps and growing without Miller, Horvat, and Boeser. Thus freeing up valuable cap space and replenishing our farm. Sure it might take awhile but no pain no gain and even jr said 2-3 years and they aren’t going after JR’s head like they are ours. lol

I see it as balancing a team, if the right opportunity came along.

Good example is the Flames trading Dougie Hamilton. They got two lesser players, but it balanced their team. And both players are core guys on the Flames while Dougie is with NJ.

And don't tell me the market sucks. The Stars gave up a 1st and a 4rh for Lundkvist.

 

[Tomatoes11]

It’s totally unrealistic, it isn’t going to happen, it would never happen for any NHL team in our situation ever, and spamming threads with this rubbish is just wasting everyone’s time.

It’s unrealistic that players can price themselves out from teams? Wasn’t everyone including you on board with the trade Miller train before? I believe you were but now you think its it rubbish? Hypocritical isn’t it

What if Horvat walks since he isn’t signed yet?

 

[MS]

I see it as balancing a team, if the right opportunity came along.

Good example is the Flames trading Dougie Hamilton. They got two lesser players, but it balanced their team. And both players are core guys on the Flames while Dougie is with NJ.

And don't tell me the market sucks. The Stars gave up a 1st and a 4rh for Lundkvist.

???

Both players Calgary got back in that trade are far better than the hopelessly overrated Hamilton.

 

[MS]

It’s unrealistic that players can price themselves out from teams? Wasn’t everyone including you on board with the trade Miller train before? I believe you were but now you think its it rubbish? Hypocritical isn’t it

What if Horvat walks since he isn’t signed yet?

It’s unrealistic that any team in our situation would ever even think about tanking.

 

[Tomatoes11]

???

Both players Calgary got back in that trade are far better than the hopelessly overrated Hamilton.

I thought this stuff was unrealistic thiugh? You mean we could actually win by trading our pending free agents that price themselves out? Really?!

It’s unrealistic that any team in our situation would ever even think about tanking.

I didnt suggest tanking, I suggested a reetool for one year by trading away contracts we shouldnt be affording. you guys took it as tanking and got your panties in a bunch about it.

Besides cough 5th in our division and wait until you see us this season.

 

[Bubbles]

???

Both players Calgary got back in that trade are far better than the hopelessly overrated Hamilton.

???

Hamilton had a great year in the COVID year, was 7th in Norris voting.
Hamilton had another solid year in 2021, was 4th in Norris voting.

Overrated? Your takes are getting crazier by the day.