Confirmed with Link: Canucks trade Dickinson & 2nd (2024) to Chicago for Riley Stillman

[Tomatoes11]

And it’s not unrealistic at all because colorado and Toronto did it when they were in much better shape than us, and quite recently I might add.

 

[racerjoe]

Nash stayed on with CBJ a for a very very very long time until CBJ decided to let him try for a cup. Nash didn’t want out, it was mutual. It was similar to Bourque and Blake getting a cup with the avs. They didn’t bail, the teams rewarded them for their loyalty by trading them to a contender. No one from the sabers bailed except Eichel and I already said that was about his health/back. Doan stayed with the yotes forever. The truth is it’s very hard to leave the team that developed you and gave you your shot. Which is why it’s pretty funny how people use EP might bail as an excuse for terrible short sighted moves and signings. Lol

And you don’t have to sign anyone right away. You can weaponize it like getting patches, a ppg winger, for free or getting more draft picks by taking up bad contracts to speed up the reetool or rebuild. Lots of things to do with cap like not pissing away a second to cap dump Dickinson. Worry about the cap when you are actual contenders and need to use all of it.

Also we are not going to be so bad that people wouldn’t touch us with a ten foot pole if we let free agents that price themselves out go. The core is still there with ep, demko, and Hughes with a lot of promising wingers.

Nash was traded at 28, so basically in 4 years if we are talking petey, and less for others... and it was mutual because it had to be for CBJ. I have to go now or I would reply to the rest.

 

[MS]

???

Hamilton had a great year in the COVID year, was 7th in Norris voting.
Hamilton had another solid year in 2021, was 4th in Norris voting.

Overrated? Your takes are getting crazier by the day.

He was the 3rd best defender on his own team the year he was 4th in Norris voting. He finished 9th in Norris voting one year in Calgary when he was their #4 defender playing 19 minutes/game.

Dougie Hamilton is basically a tall Tyson Barrie who everyone thinks is really good because size/hockey card stats/pedigree. He's one of the most overrated players in the history of the sport.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Nash was traded at 28, so basically in 4 years if we are talking petey, and less for others... and it was mutual because it had to be for CBJ. I have to go now or I would reply to the rest.

9 seasons with Columbus. EP played how many with us? 4? So we have 5 more years to convince him to stay. That’s a lot and taking a step back for one season isn’t going to make or break anything.

 

[wonton15]

I'd trade Horvat and Boeser pretty easily if it solves top RHD and defensive 3C woes. Miller is going nowhere, though.

The two trades above wouldn't be a retool or rebuild at all, though. We would be making those deals to move forward like... now. Draft picks would be in the grand scheme irrelevant with the way Benning has set this team core's contract structure up and how current management has committed to going for it.

 

[MS]

I thought this stuff was unrealistic thiugh? You mean we could actually win by trading our pending free agents that price themselves out? Really?!



I didnt suggest tanking, I suggested a reetool for one year by trading away contracts we shouldnt be affording. you guys took it as tanking and got your panties in a bunch about it.

Besides cough 5th in our division and wait until you see us this season.

The ludicrous 1-year tank for Bedard notion is probably even crazier/less grounded in reality than a full tank. Again, pure video game fantasy. It's the sort of thing I would have thought was a really cool idea when I was 10.

 

[Bubbles]

He was the 3rd best defender on his own team the year he was 4th in Norris voting. He finished 9th in Norris voting one year in Calgary when he was their #4 defender playing 19 minutes/game.

Dougie Hamilton is basically a tall Tyson Barrie who everyone thinks is really good because size/hockey card stats/pedigree. He's one of the most overrated players in the history of the sport.

This assessment of Hamilton is completely your own and definitely doesn't match the consensus.

And the whole point whooshed over your head is that the Flames strengthened their team by trading a bigger asset in Hamilton for two slightly less assets. Hanifin was considered a disappointment because of his draft position. But the point is the Flames team got better.

 

[MS]

This assessment of Hamilton is completely your own and definitely doesn't match the consensus.

And the whole point whooshed over your head is that the Flames strengthened their team by trading a bigger asset in Hamilton for two slightly less assets. Hanifin was considered a disappointment because of his draft position. But the point is the Flames team got better.

That the consensus opinion on Hamilton is terrible is my point.

He's Tyson Barrie. He's a guy who plays #3-4 minutes on his own team every year with ludicrous o-zone starts so he can be sheltered while the actual top pairing plays the big/tough minutes. And somehow gets Norris votes over superior teammates like Pesce and Slavin.

Carolina moved laterally to Deangelo and lost nothing. Hamilton was exposed terribly in NJ as soon as he didn't have an elite top pairing ahead of him to carry the load.

___________

And sure. If the Canucks could somehow sell high on Horvat the way the Flames did on Hamilton and trade him for a package containing a young top-4 defender and a young #1 C, that would be great. But deals like the one Calgary got don't exactly come down the pipeline often.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Bryan McCabe was set to be our no.1 defenseman for years...but we traded him to get the Sedins.

as much as i was very grateful for the sedins and luongo core, i still think about that late 90s/early 2000s d core that never was.

realistically, mccabe may have only been the #3/4. when they were all together, ohlund was averaging 27 minutes a game, and then averaged 27 again the year after the mccabe/sedin trade.

but imagine:

a one line team led by naslund, mo, and bert. like seriously, the second line might be built around old man linden and cooke.

but what a d. ohlund, jovo, mccabe, and aucoin were all 25 minute dmen in their primes. the bottom pair might have been marek malik and salo/sopel. although with the top four in place, you probably just keep peter schaefer and he likely drives the second line, such as it is.

and no cloutier trade...

i'm willing to bet this bizarro WCE core does better than the one we actually saw. with aucoin and mccabe on the right point, that PP would have been unstoppable.

 

[MS]

as much as i was very grateful for the sedins and luongo core, i still think about that late 90s/early 2000s d core that never was.

realistically, mccabe may have only been the #3/4. when they were all together, ohlund was averaging 27 minutes a game, and then averaged 27 again the year after the mccabe/sedin trade.

but imagine:

a one line team led by naslund, mo, and bert. like seriously, the second line might be built around old man linden and cooke.

but what a d. ohlund, jovo, mccabe, and aucoin were all 25 minute dmen in their primes. the bottom pair might have been marek malik and salo/sopel. although with the top four in place, you probably just keep peter schaefer and he likely drives the second line, such as it is.

and no cloutier trade...

i'm willing to bet this bizarro WCE core does better than the one we actually saw. with aucoin and mccabe on the right point, that PP would have been unstoppable.

The Aucoin/Cloutier trade is arguably the 2nd worst trade in franchise history next to the Neely trade.

 

[Ruthervin]

If the Canucks could somehow sell high on Horvat the way the Flames did on Hamilton and trade him for a package containing a young top-4 defender and a young #1 C

Agreed that this would be nice but is it realistic to assume that Horvat would command as such? I'm not so sure. Miller probably has more value than Horvat and he couldn't command as such. Why would Horvat?

The Aucoin/Cloutier trade is arguably the 2nd worst trade in franchise history next to the Neely trade.

Agreed. I think the problem at the time was that absolutely no one was going to trade us a world class goalie unless one of the WCE, Jovo, Ohlund, or the twins were coming back the other way. Teams knew that if we got that top tier goalie, we'd have a chance of being off to the races. Burke gambled on Cloutier and lost badly unfortunately.

 

[MS]

Agreed that this would be nice but is it realistic to assume that Horvat would command as such? I'm not so sure. Miller probably has more value than Horvat and he couldn't command as such. Why would Horvat?

Of course he won't. That's the point. We'd be getting prospects/late #1 picks.

 

[Vector]

as much as i was very grateful for the sedins and luongo core, i still think about that late 90s/early 2000s d core that never was.

realistically, mccabe may have only been the #3/4. when they were all together, ohlund was averaging 27 minutes a game, and then averaged 27 again the year after the mccabe/sedin trade.

but imagine:

a one line team led by naslund, mo, and bert. like seriously, the second line might be built around old man linden and cooke.

but what a d. ohlund, jovo, mccabe, and aucoin were all 25 minute dmen in their primes. the bottom pair might have been marek malik and salo/sopel. although with the top four in place, you probably just keep peter schaefer and he likely drives the second line, such as it is.

and no cloutier trade...

i'm willing to bet this bizarro WCE core does better than the one we actually saw. with aucoin and mccabe on the right point, that PP would have been unstoppable.

The crazy thing is all you have to do is not make the Cloutier trade and a D of Ohlund, Jovo. Aucoin, and Salo still includes the Sedins.

Completely off topic but really needed a different coach and a better GM to actually maximize that roster.

 

[MS]

Agreed. I think the problem at the time was that absolutely no one was going to trade us a world class goalie unless one of the WCE, Jovo, Ohlund, or the twins were coming back the other way. Teams knew that if we got that top tier goalie, we'd have a chance of being off to the races. Burke gambled on Cloutier and lost badly unfortunately.

Khabibulin was holding out and was traded a month later for a package centered around Paul Mara. The obvious solution was staring us in the face but instead Burke traded a guy who would immediately be a top-10 defender in the NHL for a truculent Canadian goalie who sunk the team every year in the playoffs.

That trade probably cost the WCE teams a legit chance at a Cup.

 

[Vector]

Agreed that this would be nice but is it realistic to assume that Horvat would command as such? I'm not so sure. Miller probably has more value than Horvat and he couldn't command as such. Why would Horvat?


Agreed. I think the problem at the time was that absolutely no one was going to trade us a world class goalie unless one of the WCE, Jovo, Ohlund, or the twins were coming back the other way. Teams knew that if we got that top tier goalie, we'd have a chance of being off to the races. Burke gambled on Cloutier and lost badly unfortunately.

Of course he won't. That's the point. We'd be getting prospects/late #1 picks.

I think there’s a decent chance that Horvat is valued higher than Miller for all the reasons that Miller was undervalued: leadership, attitude, and natural C. GMs get tunnel vision about these things and think some have also inflated Horvat’s value into a #1 C that’s been underutilized.

Does anything materialize from that? Probably not.

 

[Vector]

Khabibulin was holding out and was traded a month later for a package centered around Paul Mara. The obvious solution was staring us in the face but instead Burke traded a guy who would immediately be a top-10 defender in the NHL for a truculent Canadian goalie who sunk the team every year in the playoffs.

That trade probably cost the WCE teams a legit chance at a Cup.

I wake up at night sometimes shouting “Bulin Wall”. He could have been a Canuck…

 

[Ruthervin]

Khabibulin was holding out and was traded a month later for a package centered around Paul Mara. The obvious solution was staring us in the face but instead Burke traded a guy who would immediately be a top-10 defender in the NHL for a truculent Canadian goalie who sunk the team every year in the playoffs.

That trade probably cost the WCE teams a legit chance at a Cup.

Ahhhh Khabib. Yes you're correct......forgot about that! :-(.

 

[MS]

I wake up at night sometimes shouting “Bulin Wall”. He could have been a Canuck…

The alternate history of having an Aucoin-Ohlund shutdown pairing in front of Khabibulin on the WCE teams is almost too painful to think about.

 

[Ruthervin]

I wake up at night sometimes shouting “Bulin Wall”. He could have been a Canuck…

LOL, you just reminded me of an old Seinfeld episode. The one where George Steinbrenner visited the Costanza's to tell them about George's death, to which Frank yells out, "What the hell did you trade Jay Buhner for?!"

 

[EpochLink]

I wonder how Bryan McCabe would've turned out on the Canucks. Wishful thinking, he became a really good PP quarterback with the Leafs.

 

[Vector]

The alternate history of having an Aucoin-Ohlund shutdown pairing in front of Khabibulin on the WCE teams is almost too painful to think about.

WCE had so much wasted potential and it starts with Burke making some terrible personnel decisions. Ugh.

LOL, you just reminded me of an old Seinfeld episode. The one where George Steinbrenner visited the Costanza's to tell them about George's death, to which Frank yells out, "What the hell did you trade Jay Buhner for?!"

I’m glad this is the reference you chose because it’s one of the few Seinfeld references I get.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I wake up at night sometimes shouting “Bulin Wall”. He could have been a Canuck…

mine is kiprusoff

i wasn’t on hf but i do remember there was lots of canucks fan discussion about him when he fell to #3 on sj’s depth chart

 

[credulous]

i think the canucks are going to regret not taking kaapo/chytil + lundkvist for miller pretty quick. it's gonna be really tricky for them to navigate the horvat/kuzmenko situation

 

[Bubbles]

I wonder how Bryan McCabe would've turned out on the Canucks. Wishful thinking, he became a really good PP quarterback with the Leafs.

I guess it depends if he would have played on the top unit. I'm guessing he would have played with Jovo? Sopel?

 

[F A N]

And the whole point whooshed over your head is that the Flames strengthened their team by trading a bigger asset in Hamilton for two slightly less assets. Hanifin was considered a disappointment because of his draft position. But the point is the Flames team got better.

Your post was directed at MS. But Calgary would have been better with Adam Fox and the assets from trading Ferland and Hamilton.

More seriously though, the whole trade for Calgary was Lindholm blossoming into a star player and signing a team friendly contract before it happened. Even still, on paper, it's an asset loss of a deal for Calgary initially and Carolina currently given how things played out.