Speculation: Canucks to move AHL affiliate to Lower Mainland after Utica agreement expires?

ATypicalCanadian

Registered User
Apr 30, 2015
4,871
2,650
Canada
My guess is that Boeser and Juolevi don't touch the AHL, even if it could help them. They'd have to go full Virtanen for that to happen.

If we get a regime change I would hope they don't go pushing them in if they're not outperforming other guys. If Benning is here at season opener I fully expect Boeser and Juolevi here next year. My main point is if you really want your own farm team to succeed in the same area of your big club I think you have to have guys who people can actually consider having a possibility of making the NHL and are fun to watch. Guys like Boeser and Juolevi obviously would draw more attention than say a Stewart or a career AHL player.

If you draft guys no one wants to see and who perform like garbage on the farm then it's hardly going to sell seats. If the team drafts well and gets exciting players on the farm for each season then you'll see tickets be sold.

Or people just won't care at all and go to Canucks games anyways. :laugh:
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
22,367
14,162
Hiding under WTG's bed...
Have people forgotten the ONLY reason the Flames were able to get the other AHL teams to play Abbotsford was to PAY THEM to go there? And the ONLY reason the Flames decided to have a AHL club there was the city GIVING THEM MONEY essentially.

Yeah right, in times of reduced season tickets, lower team valuations; I'm sure Aquaman is going to open up his wallet to subsidize other team's travel expenses to fund a team in the lower mainland.

Ain't going to happen.
 

Ryp37

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
7,525
1,081
I quite prefer to keep our prospects away from local fans.

We have a great thing going in Utica right now. A fantastic, knowledgeable fan base who are committed and passionate about their local team. No need or reason to change.

Shame this management has done Utica such a disservice by firing Henning and not filling his role properly.
 

terhmlee

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
15
0
To be honest, I think they don't need to move the AHL team to the West coast, but needs to provide a very safe helicoptor or even a small plane often ready for sending players to the main airports like JFK or Pearson nearby whenever there is an call-up.
 

NoShowWilly

Registered User
Apr 4, 2010
12,488
2,248
North Delta
sorry, cannot agree with you guys. the team needs to move out west. Now i appreciate everything about the support that Utica gives. Their fans are fantastic and they love hockey. They absolutely deserve an AHL team and i'd hope an eastern conference team would jump on board.

It is just too far for this team and it is causing problems now even when we suck. It takes players far too long to get here and it will be a problem when we begin to get good again. The callups day starts at 5-6am eastern time and then they have to fly out to vancouver for a 10pm eastern game. It is ridiculous.

Assigning players currently requires they fly across the continent. if they were closer or local, assigning a young player to get some games in is much easier as well.

AHL teams do not play the opposite conference and the travel isn't nearly as bad as it was. it is still much more but it is what these players will have to deal with as pros.

the extra practice time has accomplished next to nothing towards the development of players in this organization. With the structure of schedules in the AHL i'm sure there is more than enough time to get practices in.
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,199
5,910
Vancouver
sorry, cannot agree with you guys. the team needs to move out west. Now i appreciate everything about the support that Utica gives. Their fans are fantastic and they love hockey. They absolutely deserve an AHL team and i'd hope an eastern conference team would jump on board.

It is just too far for this team and it is causing problems now even when we suck. It takes players far too long to get here and it will be a problem when we begin to get good again. The callups day starts at 5-6am eastern time and then they have to fly out to vancouver for a 10pm eastern game. It is ridiculous.

Assigning players currently requires they fly across the continent. if they were closer or local, assigning a young player to get some games in is much easier as well.

AHL teams do not play the opposite conference and the travel isn't nearly as bad as it was. it is still much more but it is what these players will have to deal with as pros.

the extra practice time has accomplished next to nothing towards the development of players in this organization. With the structure of schedules in the AHL i'm sure there is more than enough time to get practices in.

It really doesn't take too long for competent management to get a player from NY, to Vancouver. It's a six hour direct flight. Not only that, but half the season you are not even going to be in the west, plus some of those "west" games are in places like Chicago. For the maybe one game a year, at most, its not worth it, when a competent management would have told the player the night before.

It is much more, important that these young developing players, have time to practice. Use the time to be on the ice and train correctly.
 

NoShowWilly

Registered User
Apr 4, 2010
12,488
2,248
North Delta
It really doesn't take too long for competent management to get a player from NY, to Vancouver. It's a six hour direct flight. Not only that, but half the season you are not even going to be in the west, plus some of those "west" games are in places like Chicago. For the maybe one game a year, at most, its not worth it, when a competent management would have told the player the night before.

It is much more, important that these young developing players, have time to practice. Use the time to be on the ice and train correctly.

6 hours direct flight if you can get it. add in customs. then a late game.

AHL schedules are ****ed. they make them whatever they want.

lets start with Stockton's schedule. they do two roadtrips total to the central teams. Charlotte will move to the east if another team moves west.

Chicago plays 4 games on the road against the pacific. both are in texas. played as b2b against the same team.

Manitoba does 4 road trips to the pacific teams. 1 week, 1week, 5 days and one game in Tucson.

San Diego - 2 road trips to central. 2 and 2 games.
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,199
5,910
Vancouver
6 hours direct flight if you can get it. add in customs. then a late game.

AHL schedules are ****ed. they make them whatever they want.

lets start with Stockton's schedule. they do two roadtrips total to the central teams. Charlotte will move to the east if another team moves west.

Chicago plays 4 games on the road against the pacific. both are in texas. played as b2b against the same team.

Manitoba does 4 road trips to the pacific teams. 1 week, 1week, 5 days and one game in Tucson.

San Diego - 2 road trips to central. 2 and 2 games.

What does most of this matter? They are still on the road and traveling much more than a team based in NY, where they have like three teams within 5 hrs.
 

NoShowWilly

Registered User
Apr 4, 2010
12,488
2,248
North Delta
What does most of this matter? They are still on the road and traveling much more than a team based in NY, where they have like three teams within 5 hrs.

It is showing you that it isn't nearly as bad as it was.

If it is just about savings then fair enough. That is aquilini's decision.

The extra practice time is really overblown in my opinion. Bad teams are bad. Good teams are good. The extra practice time has shown very little for player development.
 

UticaHockey

Registered User
Feb 27, 2013
3,428
2,321
Utica, NY
Consider this. Next year the farthest team in the Eastern Conference will be roughly 270 miles from Utica and the closest is around 50 miles. The Comets play all 76 games within the Eastern Conference.

Now compare that to a team located in the Vancouver area whose closest rival will be over 900 miles away.
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
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There are so many reasons why it's a bad idea... and to the extent it is suddenly being discussed again, I wouldn't be surprised if it's an intense overreaction to Saturday night's (avoidable) debacle.

As noted, several NHL teams are clustered around Central New York (and once Laval is in the league, it's not horrendously far either) – the travel is far better there than anywhere in California (and certainly a lone team in BC), not to mention there is the nice history of hockey throughout New York State to go along with it, and a good fanbase in Utica. That's more a nice-to-have than anything, but it's still nice.

Secondly, I don't believe the "call a guy up on a dime" rationale should take precedence at all for how infrequently this is actually an issue. Development should be a way higher priority. But even if you're buying the call-up reasoning, the total distance from Vancouver (where the Canucks only play half their games anyway) probably matters less than how accessible flights are. Like, a team in Toronto could very well be an easier site to service Vancouver than a team in the rural Southwest US, even if the latter closer.

Admittedly, Utica is not the very best for this, as you first have to get to Syracuse and then it's not a major airport to begin with. (You guys talking about a direct 6-hour flight are confusing me – they don't fly out of New York City, and even if they did there are only a couple of direct flights – you'd be just as well driving up to Ottawa and flying from here, frankly). But it's not horrible either, as Syracuse connects directly to a number of larger hubs. And frankly if the team is based in Abbotsford and the Canucks are on the road, a player might very well have to fight through Lower Mainland traffic at rush hour to get to YVR. Don't kid yourself, stuff like ground traffic matters immensely when you're talking about flying.

Thirdly, I hate, hate the idea of minor league teams in major urban centers that already have top-level teams. The beauty of sticking an AHL (or junior) team in a smaller or underserved city is that it becomes an important part of the community and actually helps the guys feel like a hockey team (rather than simply the cuts from the major league team). Like, what is the Toronto Marlies' identity other than the guys who aren't good enough to be on the Maple Leafs? No one in Toronto cares about the Marlies as such. Moreover, by going outside the city, the parent club gets to spread their brand around in other regions, even if it's elsewhere in the same state/province.

Finally, oh lord, putting Canuck prospects anywhere near Vancouver could be just awful for their confidence and the pressure they'd feel. Can you imagine restless Canuck fans booing an unproductive Jake Virtanen or the press following Olli Juolevi around? Just bad news.

If they really have to move the team west, for the final two reasons, I'd way prefer it be somewhere like the Okanagan or Washington State.
 

crobro

Registered User
Aug 8, 2008
3,873
720
Langley Abbotsford probably won't happen but....

U.B.C. Great rink and in the city
Penticton
Seattle
Langley events centre?
Kelowna
Play out of the pacific coliseum
 

SgtToody

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
1,215
30
There are so many reasons why it's a bad idea... and to the extent it is suddenly being discussed again, I wouldn't be surprised if it's an intense overreaction to Saturday night's (avoidable) debacle.

As noted, several NHL teams are clustered around Central New York (and once Laval is in the league, it's not horrendously far either) – the travel is far better there than anywhere in California (and certainly a lone team in BC), not to mention there is the nice history of hockey throughout New York State to go along with it, and a good fanbase in Utica. That's more a nice-to-have than anything, but it's still nice.

Secondly, I don't believe the "call a guy up on a dime" rationale should take precedence at all for how infrequently this is actually an issue. Development should be a way higher priority. But even if you're buying the call-up reasoning, the total distance from Vancouver (where the Canucks only play half their games anyway) probably matters less than how accessible flights are. Like, a team in Toronto could very well be an easier site to service Vancouver than a team in the rural Southwest US, even if the latter closer.

Admittedly, Utica is not the very best for this, as you first have to get to Syracuse and then it's not a major airport to begin with. (You guys talking about a direct 6-hour flight are confusing me – they don't fly out of New York City, and even if they did there are only a couple of direct flights – you'd be just as well driving up to Ottawa and flying from here, frankly). But it's not horrible either, as Syracuse connects directly to a number of larger hubs. And frankly if the team is based in Abbotsford and the Canucks are on the road, a player might very well have to fight through Lower Mainland traffic at rush hour to get to YVR. Don't kid yourself, stuff like ground traffic matters immensely when you're talking about flying.

Thirdly, I hate, hate the idea of minor league teams in major urban centers that already have top-level teams. The beauty of sticking an AHL (or junior) team in a smaller or underserved city is that it becomes an important part of the community and actually helps the guys feel like a hockey team (rather than simply the cuts from the major league team). Like, what is the Toronto Marlies' identity other than the guys who aren't good enough to be on the Maple Leafs? No one in Toronto cares about the Marlies as such. Moreover, by going outside the city, the parent club gets to spread their brand around in other regions, even if it's elsewhere in the same state/province.

Finally, oh lord, putting Canuck prospects anywhere near Vancouver could be just awful for their confidence and the pressure they'd feel. Can you imagine restless Canuck fans booing an unproductive Jake Virtanen or the press following Olli Juolevi around? Just bad news.

If they really have to move the team west, for the final two reasons, I'd way prefer it be somewhere like the Okanagan or Washington State.
Completely agree. This is a mere distraction to what is truly wrong with this franchise - and you'd just infect the farm team with the mismanaged malaise. If they had to come west - and that too seems like an unnecessary move -- I'd consider Key Arena in Seattle, the Rose Garden in Portland, or Salt Lake City... But the fans here are too demanding/jaded to endorse minor pro sports team at the price points you'd need to make it successful.
 

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,378
14,647
6 hours direct flight if you can get it. add in customs. then a late game.

AHL schedules are ****ed. they make them whatever they want.

lets start with Stockton's schedule. they do two roadtrips total to the central teams. Charlotte will move to the east if another team moves west.

Chicago plays 4 games on the road against the pacific. both are in texas. played as b2b against the same team.

Manitoba does 4 road trips to the pacific teams. 1 week, 1week, 5 days and one game in Tucson.

San Diego - 2 road trips to central. 2 and 2 games.

What does matter if Utica is six hours away....call-ups from the Comets never play anyway...how many times has Pedan been recalled already?...hasn't played a single game yet.

Sticking the Canucks farm team in the Lower Mainland makes zero sense....every road trip is a flight, even to California....and practice time would be seriously compromised.

Agree with other posters that the only reason the Flames survived in Abbortsford as long as they did is that the City entered into a terrible deal and basically guaranteed to cover all their losses.

The Canucks aren't selling out their own building these days....how in the world are they going to fill another building in the same market?

Dumb idea....but knowing the current braintrust there's still a danger it could happen unfortunately.
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,199
5,910
Vancouver
Consider this. Next year the farthest team in the Eastern Conference will be roughly 270 miles from Utica and the closest is around 50 miles. The Comets play all 76 games within the Eastern Conference.

Now compare that to a team located in the Vancouver area whose closest rival will be over 900 miles away.

This completely.


It is showing you that it isn't nearly as bad as it was.

If it is just about savings then fair enough. That is aquilini's decision.

The extra practice time is really overblown in my opinion. Bad teams are bad. Good teams are good. The extra practice time has shown very little for player development.

Keep in mind for the most part they travel on buses too. It's not practice to better the team, it's practice for the sake of developing young talent.
 

Nucker101

Foundational Poster
Apr 2, 2013
21,179
16,658
The Canucks have been testing out the viability of support for an AHL level team in Vancouver for a couple of years now. :sarcasm:
ethered

kmu103Q.gif
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,745
5,966
It's hard to think of an ideal situation.

Having a farm team in the states may create a situation where prospect meets future wife who is American and later on wife wants to return to the States. But let's face it, the AHL is indeed the "American" hockey league so this is probably not even something to think about. Obviously, having the farm team in Greater Vancouver increases the odds of retaining a player in the future.

Having a farm team in a "undesirable" living place without an NHL team nearby (like when we were affiliated with Manitoba Moose) discourages some of our prospects from wanting to play there. Then again, I'm not sure how many prospects were attracted to the idea of playing in Utica if they don't make the NHL. But it is a short plane away from New York and Toronto so for an Eastern boy that's a plus. I would think Utica has helped the Canucks' ability to sign AHL vets (better than if the farm team was in Abbotsford).

Having a farm team close to other NHL teams allow for easier travel. Ideally, the Canucks want a team out West. But as far as AHL travel, Utica is a great location and anywhere in Greater Vancouver wouldn't be because you're never a short bus ride to a game.

In terms of attendance, Utica is great. Can it work in Vancouver? The Giants saved a lot of money moving to Langley but their attendance went down.
 

Eddy Punch Clock

Jack Adams 2028
Jun 13, 2007
13,126
1,823
Chillbillyville
WHY!?!?! Utica has been the perfect affiliate location.

Huge fan presence, away from the Vancouver spotlights, less travel in the Eastern timezone.

Brutal.

This can't be overstated enough.

The media scrutiny and circus in Vancouver could have young prospects' confidence shattered and sick of this franchise before they even hit the big league.

Could possibly be part of the reason Toronto had such a difficult time developing talent with the Marlies. Lucky for them though, the talent they're getting now doesn't need to spend much time, if at all, in the minors. :cry:
 

I am toxic

. . . even in small doses
Oct 24, 2014
9,471
14,919
Vancouver
I quite prefer to keep our prospects away from local fans.

We have a great thing going in Utica right now. A fantastic, knowledgeable fan base who are committed and passionate about their local team. No need or reason to change.

Shame this management has done Utica such a disservice by firing Henning and not filling his role properly.

This. Well said.
 

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