Speculation: Canucks to move AHL affiliate to Lower Mainland after Utica agreement expires?

[terrible dee]

You know.......I was going to say Victoria, but given the choice between Junior and AHL, I'd probably take Jr.

Why not Kelown....oh yeah.....screw it, move them to Abbotsford, that will motivate our prospects to make the NHL as quickly as possible


Are they building an arena in Surrey? Why? Get kids off the street and tell them "Here, go shoot each other in this arena..we'll sell tickets and watch"

Cheerleaders? "THE SURREY GIRLS" I'd pay for that......I HAVE PAID for that! Bu dum dat!

Thaks folks I'll be here all week...along with every Surry girl who can run faster than her brother.....Oh! Stop me, please!....but don't stop the bus! She's not done yet!.....man, do we have ugly kids.....what's that? I AM her Brother? No wonder we got here early!

 

[stuffradio]

You know.......I was going to say Victoria, but given the choice between Junior and AHL, I'd probably take Jr.

Why not Kelown....oh yeah.....screw it, move them to Abbotsford, that will motivate our prospects to make the NHL as quickly as possible


Are they building an arena in Surrey? Why? Get kids off the street and tell them "Here, go shoot each other in this arena..we'll sell tickets and watch"

Cheerleaders? "THE SURREY GIRLS" I'd pay for that......I HAVE PAID for that! Bu dum dat!

Thaks folks I'll be here all week...along with every Surry girl who can run faster than her brother.....Oh! Stop me, please!....but don't stop the bus! She's not done yet!.....man, do we have ugly kids.....what's that? I AM her Brother? No wonder we got here early!

Very cringeworthy post.

 

[stuffradio]

Never been able to understand why this story has any legs....a team in Abbotsford would be a logistical nightmare....look at the map.....the closest teams are in California, which is still a two and a half hour flight.....the advantage to Utica is that the Canuck prospects practice during the week and play on the weekends.

When the Heat were in Abbotsford their players spent half their lives in airports and on buses just getting to the visiting arenas to play. It was a poor arrangement for the Flames and the only reason they stayed was that the City of Abbotsford was on the hook for their operating losses. I supposed an unbalanced schedule heavy with Western Division opponents might help with travel a bit, but you can't overcome basic geography.

Who's to say there won't be a team in or near Seattle for their NHL farm team? Also there has been a slow trend to move AHL teams out west.

 

[crobro]

I’d say Abby is the best bet but have a few games in Queens Park arena

 

[me2]

Tom Mayenicht just did a segment on the success story of the Leafs and the Marlies and continuing the growth and development of that franchise in the GTA. Listen to the podcast and it will answer all of your questions.

The Marlies are basically Utica, a team with a whole bunch of other close AHL teams. The Maple Leafs get all the development benefits of their AHL being close to others. They also get the benefits of being near the big club. That is win - win. The big club doesn't hurt the development of prospects for its gains.

Its a smart business model and not having to yank players 3000 miles across 3 time zones a bunch of times easily offsets the increased AHL travel for your best players.

That is very questionable. The Canucks get some benefit from nearby players when

a) The Canucks are at home
b) The Comets are at home
c) the call up actually plays

If any of those are not true you don't get the true home+home benefit. If the Comets are playing at home in Abbottsford and the Canucks are the road in New York, you are worse off than if they are in Utica. You can get some benefit when the canucks/comets are at home/California but after that you are really starting to reach to see tangible benefit.

How many call ups did the canucks make? How many played games? How many were Canucks home games? Not many.

Every time you lose a day to travel in the AHL, you lose 20+ development days (1 for every player). Any small gain by the Canucks comes at a heavy cost.

 

[Seattle Totems]

A few things I didn't see mentioned:

The California AHL teams play fewer games than the rest if the league. This was implemented to offset the extra travel and allow more practice time.

Having an AHL team in the same city or market as the parent club is marketable when attempting to sign college free agents and AHL tweeners. It allows players to sleep in their own beds and they don't have to uproot family.

The Canucks farm team was actually considering Seattle back in 2013. It never materialized because Key Arena was waiting on a potential NHL relocation. The Canucks had looked at Abbotsford but the sticking point was the Flames - not the city. Calgary didnt want to give up their sweet heart deal. They expected to be compensated by Vancouver and even claimed AHL territorial rights on GM place.

So it is not a stretch to suggest that the Canucks farm team will move to the lower mainland in the foreseeable future.

 

[Jumptheshark]

May I toss something out there that I know will rub some the wrong way..

Some of you are assuming there would be a lot of fans who would pay to watch an ahl team. That is the theory. But after the shiney new toy honeymoon period is over and or the team loses lots of games. How will the attendance be then? There is a lot of things to spend money on in Vancouver and paying to watch a second level team in Vancouver has a history of not going well when the team struggles.

I lived in Vancouver for 15 years and you guys can spin anyway you like.. but when the Canucks struggle in the standings it is reflected in the stands after awhile. The last thing the Canucks want is to compete against themselves for the hockey buck

 

[F A N]

May I toss something out there that I know will rub some the wrong way..

Some of you are assuming there would be a lot of fans who would pay to watch an ahl team. That is the theory. But after the shiney new toy honeymoon period is over and or the team loses lots of games. How will the attendance be then? There is a lot of things to spend money on in Vancouver and paying to watch a second level team in Vancouver has a history of not going well when the team struggles.

I lived in Vancouver for 15 years and you guys can spin anyway you like.. but when the Canucks struggle in the standings it is reflected in the stands after awhile. The last thing the Canucks want is to compete against themselves for the hockey buck

Yep. During the Cup run, many people went to see the games because it was the cool thing to do. And on balance, Americans support their local teams far more than we do here in Canada.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Yep. During the Cup run, many people went to see the games because it was the cool thing to do. And on balance, Americans support their local teams far more than we do here in Canada.

When I lived in Vancouver on the Drive I went to alot of Giants games (had the misfortune of sitting next to the real Pauser a few times while he was on hold for Dan Russell on the bus to the PNE) and when I heard that they were moving to the team to Langley I found that interesting. I went to alot of games between 2000 and 2002 and the attendance was pretty good. My understanding is the giants have been hurting in the standings and it was reflected in stands.
If you move your AHL team to the city, I know on one hand some of you want to see the prospects up close and personal, but it is still a business and they will need to draw fans. Right now Utica is middle of the standings in the AHL. Would there be enough fan support in Vancouve to pull between 5k to 10k a night? It would be in direct competition against the Canucks for hockey money. Even though they maybe owned by the nucks-my past experience is dealing with Mr Aquilini (from the hotel as well as what was supposed to be low income housing) and he does not like to lose money and can get grumpy when he loses it(to put it mildly) and I do not see him allowing another team that could draw money away from the Nucks - not with the current situation where you may or may not be about to do a rebuild

 

[Melvin]

Yep. During the Cup run, many people went to see the games because it was the cool thing to do. And on balance, Americans support their local teams far more than we do here in Canada.

Because most of them are much bigger.

Vancouver is a tiny town compared to Boston, Philly, New York, Chicago, etc.

 

[Huggy43]

Every year at this time this thread pops up & every year it's a bad idea. It's also pretty disrespectful to our Utica group of posters, as IMO their passion for any form of hockey trumps that of us in Vancouver.

Keep the Comets in Utica

 

[drivier]

Every year at this time this thread pops up & every year it's a bad idea. It's also pretty disrespectful to our Utica group of posters, as IMO their passion for any form of hockey trumps that of us in Vancouver.

Keep the Comets in Utica

My heart says that Utica deserves the team. They've been supportive. The fans deserve to be rewarded for that support.

My head says that the team needs to be moved... and to me Abbotsford works.

The Primary Issue is Attendance:

The capacity in Utica of the arena is 3,860. The Auditorium underwent refurbishment in 2017 and a new arena is not on the horizon. That cap for attendance hurts their ability to retain a team and is much as I support their fans, if the community doesn't have the facilities, that's the risk that is run.

The arena in Abbotsford holds 7,000. The Heat had an attendance of 3,000 - 3,900 during their existence. Yes, that's near the bottom but it isn't far from the Canucks' current situation in Utica.

If you believe that Canucks' prospects are more likely to generate increased ticket sales (and advertising revenue) than the Flames' prospects could, there's more bums in seats here. That's a pretty significant revenue incentive irrespective of any tertiary benefits of having players closer, fans more involved, extra media coverage in expanding the fan base. Revenue incentives would obviously would have to cover increased expenses for travel. But, I don't see a significant risk there with the addition of the West Coast teams.

Other alternative... gamble and wait for the WHL/Oregon labour issues to resolve and look to move Utica to Portland? Or, move the team from Abbotsford to Oregon if there is an opportunity down the road?

I do not think Victoria (who notoriously have struggled to support hockey until the Royals is an option. The Cougars and the BCHL (Grizzlies/Salsa) traditionally struggled. Chilliwack and Langley have seats that are undersized (3,500 & 5,276) even if we consider whether the use-agreements with the Chiefs (BCHL) and Giants (WHL) permit dual-use or priority to an AHL club. So, they're out.

Kelowna is the only interior city that would work and with a 6,866 capacity arena, there's a chance. But, it's subject only to the lease agreement with the Rockets. The Rockets consistently get between 5,000 - 6,000 at a game. But, some of the tertiary benefits are gone from having a team in the Lower Mainland. The upside... branding the Comets from the Rockets is not a significant change for the casual fans.

Conclusion: Abbotsford > Kelowna > Utica > Any other BC Location (And Portland may be the best within 5 years).

 

[UticaHockey]

Every year at this time this thread pops up & every year it's a bad idea. It's also pretty disrespectful to our Utica group of posters, as IMO their passion for any form of hockey trumps that of us in Vancouver.

Keep the Comets in Utica

As long as the discussion is based on well thought out opinions and facts I don't feel disrespected. There are advantages to keeping the Nucks farm in Utica and there are advantages to moving out west. Next year is the final year of the agreement that Robert Esche and his local investors have with Vancouver. There have been rumors of an extension in the works but until there is an official announcement they are just that....rumors.

Realistically I do expect the Canucks to move their AHL team out west eventually. The question is will it be after next season or somewhere further down the line.

What Utica brings to the table includes:

1. Great fan support but this is not always a high priority for NHL teams when choosing where to place their farm team.
2. A great location in terms of short bus rides for games against their rivals and increased practice time.
3. Maybe the most over looked benefit is the business relationship between the Canucks and the Comets. Benning and Linden only have to concentrate on player development and all of the other business operations of running an AHL team are the responsibility of Esche. This model was just picked up by the NJ Devils this year when they moved from Albany, NY where they ran the entire operations to Binghamton, NY where local ownership runs the business side. NHL teams have traditionally done a poor job of running a AHL team. At the end of the day Esche writes a check to Vancouver to supply the players, coaches and training staff and Esche has to sell enough tickets, advertising and concessions to cover that check and pay all of his employees.

The disadvantages for Utica is the obvious 3,000 mile distance between the cities which slows down call ups and makes it less convenient for Canucks management to view games in person.

 

[crobro]

I still believe that Billing’s Montana would be great home for the Canucks AHL franchise

 

[go comets]

As long as the discussion is based on well thought out opinions and facts I don't feel disrespected. There are advantages to keeping the Nucks farm in Utica and there are advantages to moving out west. Next year is the final year of the agreement that Robert Esche and his local investors have with Vancouver. There have been rumors of an extension in the works but until there is an official announcement they are just that....rumors.

Realistically I do expect the Canucks to move their AHL team out west eventually. The question is will it be after next season or somewhere further down the line.

What Utica brings to the table includes:

1. Great fan support but this is not always a high priority for NHL teams when choosing where to place their farm team.
2. A great location in terms of short bus rides for games against their rivals and increased practice time.
3. Maybe the most over looked benefit is the business relationship between the Canucks and the Comets. Benning and Linden only have to concentrate on player development and all of the other business operations of running an AHL team are the responsibility of Esche. This model was just picked up by the NJ Devils this year when they moved from Albany, NY where they ran the entire operations to Binghamton, NY where local ownership runs the business side. NHL teams have traditionally done a poor job of running a AHL team. At the end of the day Esche writes a check to Vancouver to supply the players, coaches and training staff and Esche has to sell enough tickets, advertising and concessions to cover that check and pay all of his employees.

The disadvantages for Utica is the obvious 3,000 mile distance between the cities which slows down call ups and makes it less convenient for Canucks management to view games in person.

Personally I think the Canucks will eventually move west as well. But I think they wait until Seattle starts up and hopefully both ahl teams will be in the north west. Could also see Calgary or the Oilers moving their team closer at the same time.

 

[StreetHawk]

Personally I think the Canucks will eventually move west as well. But I think they wait until Seattle starts up and hopefully both ahl teams will be in the north west. Could also see Calgary or the Oilers moving their team closer at the same time.

Also agree about waiting to see where Seattle puts their team. Kent, Everett, Spokane, and tie-cities are whl locations.

See how the chl lawsuit shakes down and how that impacts the Whl.

Seattle could put their farm team in Tacoma, Olympia or Bellevue. All Three would require a new rink. Tacoma some getting a bit of a facelift but it’s a larger venue which has limited permanent seating to allow for converting into football field.

 

[UticaHockey]

I still believe that Billing’s Montana would be great home for the Canucks AHL franchise

That may actually be further from the California based AHL teams than Vancouver.

 

[me2]

That may actually be further from the California based AHL teams than Vancouver.

You'd be looking at a stop in Seattle or Denver to get to Vancouver.

 

[me2]

Personally I think the Canucks will eventually move west as well. But I think they wait until Seattle starts up and hopefully both ahl teams will be in the north west. Could also see Calgary or the Oilers moving their team closer at the same time.

I can see Seattle trying to put their farm team in SoCal or at least closer to Socal with all the California farm teams. If that happens a Vancouver based farm team would still be isolated.

 

[me2]

I still believe that Billing’s Montana would be great home for the Canucks AHL franchise

If the canucks are trying to get closer wouldn't a city with a large airport and frequent direct flights to Vancouver, and other major cities (for when the Canucks are on the road) be better?