Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign defenceman Troy Stecher (post #194, #443)

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yvrtojfk

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Can you guys imagine if Stecher can become a top 4-6 dman in the NHL? You know how epic that would be from an asset perspective. We'd have the following dmen with top 6+ capabilities, all 26 and under:

1. Hutton
2. Tryamkin
3. Juolevi
4. Stecher
5. Larsen
6. Gudbranson
7. Tanev

Feels good man.

I hope management can execute the rebuild properly in the coming years. Trade players that won't grow with the Canucks and maximize return. Hopefully this can leapfrog us ahead of some tough years.
 

CanaFan

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Can you guys imagine if Stecher can become a top 4-6 dman in the NHL? You know how epic that would be from an asset perspective. We'd have the following dmen with top 6+ capabilities, all 26 and under:

1. Hutton
2. Tryamkin
3. Juolevi
4. Stecher
5. Larsen
6. Gudbranson
7. Tanev

Feels good man.

I hope management can execute the rebuild properly in the coming years. Trade players that won't grow with the Canucks and maximize return. Hopefully this can leapfrog us ahead of some tough years.

Bolded is the key. Having depth is great but all those players cannot fit into a regular 6 man rotation (salary wise or utilization wise). Hopefully Benning can start to convert these surplus assets on D into badly needed assets up front and not lose value with each transaction.
 

M2Beezy

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Can you guys imagine if Stecher can become a top 4-6 dman in the NHL? You know how epic that would be from an asset perspective. We'd have the following dmen with top 6+ capabilities, all 26 and under:

1. Hutton
2. Tryamkin
3. Juolevi
4. Stecher
5. Larsen
6. Gudbranson
7. Tanev

Feels good man.

I hope management can execute the rebuild properly in the coming years. Trade players that won't grow with the Canucks and maximize return. Hopefully this can leapfrog us ahead of some tough years.

Makes Edler tradeable problem is he doesnt wanna be traded
 

biturbo19

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Bolded is the key. Having depth is great but all those players cannot fit into a regular 6 man rotation (salary wise or utilization wise). Hopefully Benning can start to convert these surplus assets on D into badly needed assets up front and not lose value with each transaction.

Is there really a huge surplus to talk about there though, even if a bunch of these continue to track extremely well?

I just don't see a huge excess to go dealing from. I see good potential depth for the future starting to come together. The kind of pool a rebuilding team should have. Good teams have extra guys in the mix, a constantly flowing pipeline of young defencemen on cheap deals added layers upon layers of depth. You need at least 7 quality guys in the NHL...with levels of quality depth below that.


I think the building of the forward group is probably going to have to be a lot like the way the defence group has been built up for the most part. Drafting, waiting, grabbing a guy or two as UDFAs.

Fortunately...if you're going to build one group before the other, it makes worlds of sense to make sure it's the blueline that has the headstart. Forwards can often jump in a lot sooner as real impact players. Forwards jumping into the league as quality contributors 2-3 years earlier than their defencemen compatriots is totally reasonable and would line things up pretty darn nicely.
 

CanaFan

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Is there really a huge surplus to talk about there though, even if a bunch of these continue to track extremely well?

I just don't see a huge excess to go dealing from. I see good potential depth for the future starting to come together. The kind of pool a rebuilding team should have. Good teams have extra guys in the mix, a constantly flowing pipeline of young defencemen on cheap deals added layers upon layers of depth. You need at least 7 quality guys in the NHL...with levels of quality depth below that.


I think the building of the forward group is probably going to have to be a lot like the way the defence group has been built up for the most part. Drafting, waiting, grabbing a guy or two as UDFAs.

Fortunately...if you're going to build one group before the other, it makes worlds of sense to make sure it's the blueline that has the headstart. Forwards can often jump in a lot sooner as real impact players. Forwards jumping into the league as quality contributors 2-3 years earlier than their defencemen compatriots is totally reasonable and would line things up pretty darn nicely.

Well considering that list didn't contain Edler, yeah I think it is a tough group to fit into a proper rotation. It's an over allocation of assets into depth positions while the team lacks quality at the forward position. Usually a 7th Dman isn't going to be the quality of a Gudbranson, Stetcher, Juolevi, or (projecting a bit here) Tryamkin. It's more along the lines of an Andrew Alberts or an Aaron Rome because that is the quality that you can afford to acquire and pay for sporadic contributions. That depth would be better off converted into the forward ranks which are going to be sorely lacking in 2 years time.
 

biturbo19

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Well considering that list didn't contain Edler, yeah I think it is a tough group to fit into a proper rotation. It's an over allocation of assets into depth positions while the team lacks quality at the forward position. Usually a 7th Dman isn't going to be the quality of a Gudbranson, Stetcher, Juolevi, or (projecting a bit here) Tryamkin. It's more along the lines of an Andrew Alberts or an Aaron Rome because that is the quality that you can afford to acquire and pay for sporadic contributions. That depth would be better off converted into the forward ranks which are going to be sorely lacking in 2 years time.

Idk, i think what Tryamkin projects as, is absolutely the quality of guy you'd like to have as a 6/7th D if you're building a serious Cup Contender.

And even then...you've got Juolevi/Tanev/Hutton/Gudbranson/Tryamkin/Stecher...which is a pretty good set of 6. Not sure there's a lot of room for both of Larsen/Stecher down the line in the same sort of role, unless one of them vastly exceeds expectations and becomes a lot more than just a Top-6 offensive D. But remains to be seen if either can even firmly establish themselves as even that much - though it certainly looks promising.


I do think that at some point, the Edler thing is going to come up though. Perhaps that point comes when the Sedins move on. Really a matter of actually getting him to the point where he's open to a trade...and at a point where this team is in a less competitive place to swallow the loss of a top-pairing de facto #1D...temporarily at least. Even if that's just the last year of his deal. Ideally, that would be converted to a forward asset of some sort (via pick, prospect, or young skater).


But aside from that...there just aren't really many opportunities out there to swap "good depth" for "top quality" anything. Defencemen tend to be worth more than Wingers in particular...but what we're really lacking up front is the type of "quality" that you generally only get through the draft (or for absolutely top-quality defencemen which is where i don't think we have a surplus).

If we were to end up spending another top pick on a defenceman...at that point, maybe we're talking about having an expendable piece somewhere to convert into a Forward asset and better balance the rebuild.

But assuming the next few years are likely to be Forwards as top picks...that's hopefully adding at least one premium forward asset each year to the pool.

Right now we've got Horvat, Virtanen, Boeser, Baertschi as the real "future Top-6 forwards" pool. Clearly lacking the "Superstar" talent at the very top...but there's potentially 4/6 solid supporting pieces in place. And the pieces we're missing (#1C, etc.) are the key to any rebuild is getting the right premium pieces to drive your franchise. Those aren't pieces you're going to swap your finally decent defensive prospect depth for. So in that regard, even if there does end up a bit of a surplus on the blueline - unless we're into trading our absolute cream of the crop premium defensive pieces (Juolevi, Hutton)...and then our defensive top-end needs more work again (which takes longer than fixing the forward pool).


To me, this future blueline is finally starting to look like it's on the way to what a proper rebuild pool looks like. It's just a matter of time to build that forward pool up to the same sort of level. You can't do it all at once unless you have a team that has assets worth enough to be a real contender in the first place.
 

F A N

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Well considering that list didn't contain Edler, yeah I think it is a tough group to fit into a proper rotation. It's an over allocation of assets into depth positions while the team lacks quality at the forward position. Usually a 7th Dman isn't going to be the quality of a Gudbranson, Stetcher, Juolevi, or (projecting a bit here) Tryamkin. It's more along the lines of an Andrew Alberts or an Aaron Rome because that is the quality that you can afford to acquire and pay for sporadic contributions. That depth would be better off converted into the forward ranks which are going to be sorely lacking in 2 years time.

Over allocation of assets on D? I don't think so. Technically, Stecher and Tryamkin are waiver exempt. So if they make the team great. If they don't, these are exactly the type of players you want pushing for spots (of course Tryamkin has a KHL clause). But that doesn't change the fact that young players with potential who can be sent down. Juolevi can be returned to juniors without even thinking about it. And I don't really think the quality of depth on D is greater than the quality of depth on forward. Is Sbisa, Stecher, Tryamkin, Pedan, Biega, Larsen better than Gaunce, Rodin, Etem, Granlund, Labate, Skille/Ruutu? These are the guys without a guaranteed spot.

Is the quality of the defensive depth that much better than at forward?
 

me2

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Idk, i think what Tryamkin projects as, is absolutely the quality of guy you'd like to have as a 6/7th D if you're building a serious Cup Contender.

And even then...you've got Juolevi/Tanev/Hutton/Gudbranson/Tryamkin/Stecher...which is a pretty good set of 6. Not sure there's a lot of room for both of Larsen/Stecher down the line in the same sort of role, unless one of them vastly exceeds expectations and becomes a lot more than just a Top-6 offensive D. But remains to be seen if either can even firmly establish themselves as even that much - though it certainly looks promising.


I do think that at some point, the Edler thing is going to come up though. Perhaps that point comes when the Sedins move on. Really a matter of actually getting him to the point where he's open to a trade...and at a point where this team is in a less competitive place to swallow the loss of a top-pairing de facto #1D...temporarily at least. Even if that's just the last year of his deal. Ideally, that would be converted to a forward asset of some sort (via pick, prospect, or young skater).


But aside from that...there just aren't really many opportunities out there to swap "good depth" for "top quality" anything. Defencemen tend to be worth more than Wingers in particular...but what we're really lacking up front is the type of "quality" that you generally only get through the draft (or for absolutely top-quality defencemen which is where i don't think we have a surplus).

If we were to end up spending another top pick on a defenceman...at that point, maybe we're talking about having an expendable piece somewhere to convert into a Forward asset and better balance the rebuild.

But assuming the next few years are likely to be Forwards as top picks...that's hopefully adding at least one premium forward asset each year to the pool.

Right now we've got Horvat, Virtanen, Boeser, Baertschi as the real "future Top-6 forwards" pool. Clearly lacking the "Superstar" talent at the very top...but there's potentially 4/6 solid supporting pieces in place. And the pieces we're missing (#1C, etc.) are the key to any rebuild is getting the right premium pieces to drive your franchise. Those aren't pieces you're going to swap your finally decent defensive prospect depth for. So in that regard, even if there does end up a bit of a surplus on the blueline - unless we're into trading our absolute cream of the crop premium defensive pieces (Juolevi, Hutton)...and then our defensive top-end needs more work again (which takes longer than fixing the forward pool).


To me, this future blueline is finally starting to look like it's on the way to what a proper rebuild pool looks like. It's just a matter of time to build that forward pool up to the same sort of level. You can't do it all at once unless you have a team that has assets worth enough to be a real contender in the first place.

Time is big issue. If you wait until after the sedins retire to start adding those franchise forwards we could be looking at 3-4 years away. The down side is that there's guess will be on their full contracts. Even Joulevi would be off his ELC by then and that defense wedding be cheap anymore, you won't be able to afford to keep those guys as depth on D if it pans out.
 

Roy Baby*

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Time is big issue. If you wait until after the sedins retire to start adding those franchise forwards we could be looking at 3-4 years away. The down side is that there's guess will be on their full contracts. Even Joulevi would be off his ELC by then and that defense wedding be cheap anymore, you won't be able to afford to keep those guys as depth on D if it pans out.

Heard the same thing about defense for years and in less than that time period JB has been able to work magic. He will do the same with the forwards. Not a big issue at all.
 

CanaFan

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Over allocation of assets on D? I don't think so. Technically, Stecher and Tryamkin are waiver exempt. So if they make the team great. If they don't, these are exactly the type of players you want pushing for spots (of course Tryamkin has a KHL clause). But that doesn't change the fact that young players with potential who can be sent down. Juolevi can be returned to juniors without even thinking about it. And I don't really think the quality of depth on D is greater than the quality of depth on forward. Is Sbisa, Stecher, Tryamkin, Pedan, Biega, Larsen better than Gaunce, Rodin, Etem, Granlund, Labate, Skille/Ruutu? These are the guys without a guaranteed spot.

Is the quality of the defensive depth that much better than at forward?

Yep.
 

MS

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Heard the same thing about defense for years and in less than that time period JB has been able to work magic. He will do the same with the forwards. Not a big issue at all.

"Work magic"

1) inherit your best 3 defenders from previous GM
2) trade away/lose 3 competent NHL defenders for nothing
3) spend your first 2 seasons trading for the biggest pro scouting failure pile of crap in NHL history - Sbisa, Clendening, Pedan, Bartkowski.
4) make your team suck so bad that you get a top-5 pick, and take a defender with it.
5) trade a huge package for a guy who scored 9 points last year

Magic!

:laugh:
 

MS

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As for Stecher ... he's looked good next to Edler, which is great but not really realistic because that's not who he'll be playing with on opening day.

Need to see if he can form a solid pairing with Tryamkin or some such, which is something else entirely.
 

Rotting Corpse*

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"Work magic"

1) inherit your best 3 defenders from previous GM
2) trade away/lose 3 competent NHL defenders for nothing
3) spend your first 2 seasons trading for the biggest pro scouting failure pile of crap in NHL history - Sbisa, Clendening, Pedan, Bartkowski.
4) make your team suck so bad that you get a top-5 pick, and take a defender with it.
5) trade a huge package for a guy who scored 9 points last year

Magic!

:laugh:
And don't worry, he'll do the same with the forwards.
 

LovemyNucks

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"Work magic"

1) inherit your best 3 defenders from previous GM
2) trade away/lose 3 competent NHL defenders for nothing
3) spend your first 2 seasons trading for the biggest pro scouting failure pile of crap in NHL history - Sbisa, Clendening, Pedan, Bartkowski.
4) make your team suck so bad that you get a top-5 pick, and take a defender with it.
5) trade a huge package for a guy who scored 9 points last year

Magic!

:laugh:

Abra Cadaver Mellonfarmer!!!
 

tantalum

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I think the problem when you write down lists of these top 8 D-men all under 26 in the organization is that most of them won't end up being better than a 6/7 guy and 2 or 3 will likely bust altogether. It's a list every team can put together.

You can break down the list as:

Tanev, Hutton and Gudbranson....NHL players. One is a top pairing guy but desperately needs a offensive D-man partner. One has top pairing potential. The other is likely a #4/5 and will remain as such.

Then you have a collection of 5 or 6 players who haven't proven anything. Is there at least one more top 4 guy in there? Is there 2 other top 6 guys? How long until they reach those levels?

No idea at this point. We'll know soon enough but on paper right now this isn't a good or deep blueline.
 

StrictlyCommercial

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Stecher's real good. You can just see that he has 'it'. Skill, poise, IQ. If he were Hutton's size he would be locked into the roster already. If not for waivers he would stick.
 

DL44

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Stecher's real good. You can just see that he has 'it'. Skill, poise, IQ. If he were Hutton's size he would be locked into the roster already. If not for waivers he would stick.

Just happy he's pushed pushed Biega down to a #10.


Favorite part of his game is his speed. he's got the flare and balls to try things offensively... but he'll find out the hard way what his limits actually are vs NHL caliber players so at least he has recovery speed in spades.

It is a an extremely comfortable feeling to know if we run into injury troubles, we should have Stecher and Biega to call up this season.
 

WetcoastOrca

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Don't know if it's been posted already but here's Willie D on Stecher:
"We didn't expect this from Stecher, he's thrown a wrench in things and we need to have another look at him." - Desjardins

Sounds very Huttonesque. :naughty:
 

VanJack

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That's always the conundrum with young d-men....are they better off as a spare-part in the NHL or playing 25 minutes a night in Utica?....but given the state of the Canucks pp, I'd like to see him stick around for that reason alone.
 

KeninsFan

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Don't know if it's been posted already but here's Willie D on Stecher:
"We didn't expect this from Stecher, he's thrown a wrench in things and we need to have another look at him." - Desjardins

Sounds very Huttonesque. :naughty:
Love it.

When things don't go according to management's plan it usually means we're in for a better season. I was actually afraid Benning/Willie had the 8 D men pencilled in (Stecher staying will likely mean someone Benning acquired will have to be waived and possibly claimed)
 

CanaFan

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How so? Care to explain? Are you overrating our Dmen or underrating our forwards.

Top pair D - Current

Tanev (26)
Edler (30)

Top line Forwards - Current

D. Sedin (36)
H.Sedin (36)
Eriksson (31)

Top Pair D - Potential

Hutton (23)
Juolevi (18)

Top line Forwards - Potential

Boeser? (19)


We have 4 D that broadly look like they are or will be capable of playing strong top pair minutes. 3 of these 4 are under 30 years of age and the other is just turned 30.

For Forwards who do or could potentially form an effective top line we have a pair of guys pushing the back half of their 30's, another guy in his early 30's, and maybe Brock Boeser who, even if he turns out perfectly still seems more a elite finisher than line driver. We then have Horvat as a likely strong second liner and some interesting question marks in Baertschi, Rodin, and Virtanen. That is literally it for top 6 forward depth. Meanwhile the defense still has further depth with Gudbanson (#5), Stecher (#6), Tryamkin (#7), and Larsen (#8).

Pretty substantial gap between the top end of both positions as well as just pure depth, doncha think?
 

Nick Lang

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I think the problem when you write down lists of these top 8 D-men all under 26 in the organization is that most of them won't end up being better than a 6/7 guy and 2 or 3 will likely bust altogether. It's a list every team can put together.

You can break down the list as:

Tanev, Hutton and Gudbranson....NHL players. One is a top pairing guy but desperately needs a offensive D-man partner. One has top pairing potential. The other is likely a #4/5 and will remain as such.

Then you have a collection of 5 or 6 players who haven't proven anything. Is there at least one more top 4 guy in there? Is there 2 other top 6 guys? How long until they reach those levels?

No idea at this point. We'll know soon enough but on paper right now this isn't a good or deep blueline.

You're the only one left hating our team with your avatar.
 
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