Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign Ashton Sautner to an entry level deal

[Verviticus]

Subban is 6' now?

yes just like hes been for almost 8 years im guessing

(he said pk subban)

 

[Phred Phlinstone]

I see Sautner as a slightly undersized defensive defender.

Unless his point production is set for a large upswing, I can't see someone like that making the NHL.

That's quite possibly what everyone was saying about Mark Giordano when the Flames signed him as a 20 year old undrafted UFA out of the OHL.

Not saying Sautner is the second coming of Giordano, but their 19 and 20 year old junior season numbers are very similar (except for the gawdy +/- numbers that Sautner has). The two are about the same size at the same age, so Sautner could very top out at 200 lbs. which is pretty average by NHL standards.

Anyways, IMHO, it never hurts to bring on 20 year old prospects who are trending in the right direction.

 

[F A N]

I see Sautner as a slightly undersized defensive defender.

Unless his point production is set for a large upswing, I can't see someone like that making the NHL.

From what I have read, he plays a physical game and has a strong work ethic. Like most young defenders, he will need to improve his strength to handle the bigger NHL forwards but it's not like anyone is expecting him to develop into a top 4 defenseman here. Take a guy like Ryan Stanton. He's not going to make it on his offense alone. In fact, it doesn't really matter if he puts up a bit more points. Sautner has a good shot and has improved on his first pass. There is some offensive upside there, but it's going to be his ability to defend that determines whether or not he makes it to the NHL.

 

[Verviticus]

That's quite possibly what everyone was saying about Mark Giordano when the Flames signed him as a 20 year old undrafted UFA out of the OHL.

Not saying Sautner is the second coming of Giordano, but their 19 and 20 year old junior season numbers are very similar (except for the gawdy +/- numbers that Sautner has). The two are about the same size at the same age, so Sautner could very top out at 200 lbs. which is pretty average by NHL standards.

Anyways, IMHO, it never hurts to bring on 20 year old prospects who are trending in the right direction.

giordano also ****ed off from the NHL/AHL to go play in russia, lmao

how many times do people have to say "opportunity cost" before people realize that every signing has a cost?

 

[Pip]

There is a cost to this signing, whether people like it or not. We have a limited number of contract spaces that we can use to sign undrafted FA and what not, as well as a limited number of good development positions on the backend in Utica.

Not as bad a Cederholm though

 

[WTG]

People complained that we didn't give Liberati a contract.

Well we essentially gave a better version of Liberati a contract and people still complain.

 

[Pip]

People complained that we didn't give Liberati a contract.

Well we essentially gave a better version of Liberati a contract and people still complain.

I don't remember many wanting to give Liberati a contract and I specifically remember the few who were happily surprised with his production, but felt it wasn't enough to earn a contract. I saw the consensus as that Liberati should go back for his overrated year and to maybe keep a tab on him.

 

[WTG]

I don't remember many wanting to give Liberati a contract and I specifically remember the few who were happily surprised with his production, but felt it wasn't enough to earn a contract. I saw the consensus as that Liberati should go back for his overrated year and to maybe keep a tab on him.

I remember a lot of people wanted to give Cederholm's contract to Liberati.

Cederholm is such a waste of a contract. No idea how he got signed either. We didn't even have a GM during the time.

 

[tantalum]

Yeah, without knowing exactly where the Canucks are in terms of the contract limit, I can't say whether I like this or not.

Not every one of those 50 contract players even have a chance at playing in the NHL. you have to build an organization not just a NHL team. Now of course the concern may be if there is someone better to have that contract. I don't know. We'll have to see but on the surface picking up a D-man with reasonable stats and is captain isn't a horrible thing.

 

[tantalum]

I've never understood why people stress about the contract limit. I've never heard a GM say "We'd love to add a player, but we're right up against the contract limit cap." In any case, it's not a team-breaking thing like the salary cap, and therefore something for the GM and AGMs to worry about, not us.

On Sautner: looks like a good pickup! Love free draft picks.

I actually think it happened to Sutter once when he was GM of the flames. Of course he also had to play games with 17 players because he didn't understand how the cap worked...

But you are correct. People stress out about it far too much. Especially at this time of year. As they head into summer several slots will open up and they'll have room to maneuver.

 

[arsmaster*]

The same people who complain about cederholm's contract are he same ones clamouring over tryamkin.

Same type of player.

-----
Liberati is also a year younger than sautner. On a similar trajectory. People would be annoyed if we signed libs bit their content with a 20 year old version and are trying to claim he's a potential Tanev/giordano.

 

[MS]

Meh, he's put up pretty good numbers and every scouting report suggest he has upside. If it only costs 1 contract slot then I wouldn't worry much about it.

Now if Benning decides to sign half the CHL I'll be concerned

I've seen him play a bunch and I don't see the upside.

He's a good overage defender in the WHL - at that level, he's average-sized, has above-average mobility, and decent hockey sense. And being older than everyone else, is able to excel.

In pro, he projects as a guy with below-average size, average mobility, and average (at best) hockey sense. I don't see the projection. This isn't Chris Tanev - a guy who is 6'2 with utterly elite hockey sense and plus mobility.

I see a guy headed straight to the ECHL who, even if he develops well, probably plateaus as an AHL guy. And don't really see the point in signing guys like this.

If you want to get value and add upside to the system, there are probably 2 dozen defenders born 1992-1994 playing in Europe who are excelling at an AHL level against men already and are next to a sure thing to be able to step into the Utica lineup as regulars, and have upside from there. That's who we should be signing. Not middling ECHL-bound WHL guys.

And we shouldn't have signed Cederholm and shouldn't be signing Liberati, either. Those are Steven Anthony-type contracts - just signing someone because you've drafted them, and throwing good money after bad when it's obvious there isn't any pro potential there.

 

[arsmaster*]

I'm not giving up hope on Cederholm. You can see exactly why they signed him. He's Benning's new McQuaid.

He'll get every chance to make a name for himself.

 

[NuxFan09]

People complained that we didn't give Liberati a contract.

Well we essentially gave a better version of Liberati a contract and people still complain.

I think everyone is just really desperate to see our draft success rate go up, to the point where we want the Canucks to sign every drafted prospect in the hopes they pan out to something.

 

[NuxFan09]

I've seen him play a bunch and I don't see the upside.

He's a good overage defender in the WHL - at that level, he's average-sized, has above-average mobility, and decent hockey sense. And being older than everyone else, is able to excel.

In pro, he projects as a guy with below-average size, average mobility, and average (at best) hockey sense. I don't see the projection. This isn't Chris Tanev - a guy who is 6'2 with utterly elite hockey sense and plus mobility.

I see a guy headed straight to the ECHL who, even if he develops well, probably plateaus as an AHL guy. And don't really see the point in signing guys like this.

If you want to get value and add upside to the system, there are probably 2 dozen defenders born 1992-1994 playing in Europe who are excelling at an AHL level against men already and are next to a sure thing to be able to step into the Utica lineup as regulars, and have upside from there. That's who we should be signing. Not middling ECHL-bound WHL guys.

And we shouldn't have signed Cederholm and shouldn't be signing Liberati, either. Those are Steven Anthony-type contracts - just signing someone because you've drafted them, and throwing good money after bad when it's obvious there isn't any pro potential there.

As of now, which as-of-yet-to-be-signed prospects do you feel need to be signed by the Canucks? This includes our various college prospects who may or may not go pro.

 

[MS]

As of now, which as-of-yet-to-be-signed prospects do you feel need to be signed by the Canucks? This includes our various college prospects who may or may not go pro.

Right now, I'd be signing Subban and Hutton, and trying to sign Demko and get him in the AHL next year. McNally, who knows. I think he fully intends on finishing his degree next year whether he gets to play hockey or not. Tryamkin can stay in Russia for another year.

Labate, Stewart, Liberti are not worth contracts.

 

[NuxFan09]

Right now, I'd be signing Subban and Hutton, and trying to sign Demko and get him in the AHL next year. McNally, who knows. I think he fully intends on finishing his degree next year whether he gets to play hockey or not. Tryamkin can stay in Russia for another year.

Labate, Stewart, Liberti are not worth contracts.

I'd like the Canucks or Comets to sign LaBate to a PTO when Wisconsin inevitably bows out of the Big 10 tournament later this week. He posted meager totals this year but when you look at how awful Wisconsin is his statline doesn't seem so bad.

I guess he's not worth just blindly throwing a contract at but he's at least worth a look-see, in my opinion

 

[VanJack]

Where would the 'Nucks be right now without Lack, Tanev, Burrows and Kenins?...sometimes those undrafted players really work out....even though guys like McEneny, Fox, Archibald and Sautner may not pan out, they're still better value than some of the duds the 'Nucks have drafted in later rounds.

 

[Pip]

The same people who complain about cederholm's contract are he same ones clamouring over tryamkin.

Same type of player.

I'm not high on either, don't see NHL potential there with these types of guys.

 

[MS]

Where would the 'Nucks be right now without Lack, Tanev, Burrows and Kenins?...sometimes those undrafted players really work out....even though guys like McEneny, Fox, Archibald and Sautner may not pan out, they're still better value than some of the duds the 'Nucks have drafted in later rounds.

I liked the McEneny, Archibald, and Fox signings.

I don't particularly like this signing.

Those players all showed tools/production that showed a possible projection to the NHL. McEneny was a potential top-3 round pick who missed his draft year with an injury. Fox destroyed the OHL and has an absolutely elite, NHL caliber shot and finishing skills. Archibald had a NHL frame and toughness coupled with decent goalscoring ability that looked to potentially project as a solid bottom-6 forward. In the last two cases, skating looks to have let them down ... but you could see the projection and see where it could have worked out.

Sautner I don't see the projection. He's 21 and I don't see anything he does that will be NHL-caliber.

 

[arsmaster*]

Philly just signed a guy with these stats: 64gm-48g-54a-102p +38 85 PIMs.

He has late bloomer written all over him and looks like he'd step right into an AHL top 6 group.

Those are the guys you take chances on. IMO.

 

[Seattle Totems]

Canucks have had zero success with free agent CHL signings. This one is likely no different.

 

[WTG]

Philly just signed a guy with these stats: 64gm-48g-54a-102p +38 85 PIMs.

He has late bloomer written all over him and looks like he'd step right into an AHL top 6 group.

Those are the guys you take chances on. IMO.

The guy philly signed is 5'8 162lbs.....

The chances of him making the NHL are much slimmer than Sautners

 

[Canucks LB]

Philly just signed a guy with these stats: 64gm-48g-54a-102p +38 85 PIMs.

He has late bloomer written all over him and looks like he'd step right into an AHL top 6 group.

Those are the guys you take chances on. IMO.

Dane fox?

 

[VanJack]

From what I have read, he plays a physical game and has a strong work ethic. Like most young defenders, he will need to improve his strength to handle the bigger NHL forwards but it's not like anyone is expecting him to develop into a top 4 defenseman here. Take a guy like Ryan Stanton. He's not going to make it on his offense alone. In fact, it doesn't really matter if he puts up a bit more points. Sautner has a good shot and has improved on his first pass. There is some offensive upside there, but it's going to be his ability to defend that determines whether or not he makes it to the NHL.

Is Stanton a potentially decent comparison?...an undrafted guy out of the Dub, signed by the Hawks, and arrived via waivers....similar size and stats with Moose Jaw Warriors....has morped into a decent depth guy imo.