Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign Ashton Sautner to an entry level deal

[MS]

Really as I remember Toronto managed to give up 2 contracts for a conditional.

It's not as hard as you think

That was a bizarre, bizarre trade. Not sure what TB was thinking. But in any case, Ashton is a fringe NHLer. Not a guy in the Blomstrand/Mallet category.

If Sautner becomes an AHL/NHL tweener, there isn't much wrong with this signing. It's the opportunity loss if he can't cut it in the AHL that's the problem.

 

[WTG]

I think if Sautner can become a productive AHL player, it might be easier to move him.

Ashton busted, but he's still a good AHLer.

If Sautner ends up being ECHL bound, I think it'd be a bit harder to move him.

Meh, he's put up pretty good numbers and every scouting report suggest he has upside. If it only costs 1 contract slot then I wouldn't worry much about it.

Now if Benning decides to sign half the CHL I'll be concerned

 

[me2]

I think if Sautner can become a productive AHL player, it might be easier to move him.

Ashton busted, but he's still a good AHLer.

If Sautner ends up being ECHL bound, I think it'd be a bit harder to move him.

I think that is where he ends up next year, depth for Utica, with the plan to bring him up the AHL at year later.

 

[Wilch]

Meh, he's put up pretty good numbers and every scouting report suggest he has upside. If it only costs 1 contract slot then I wouldn't worry much about it.

Now if Benning decides to sign half the CHL I'll be concerned

I don't know, I just felt like this signing doesn't make sense given the defensive depth in Utica next season.

It's likely Utica will have Sanguinetti, Biega, Pedan, Subban and possibly Hutton.

We still have McEneny, Cederholm (probably ECHL bound) and Liberti (unsigned).

That's assuming Negrin is gone (unlikely), Corrado is NHL bound.

This signing might make sense if Sbisa is let go and a slot opens up on the NHL roster:

Edler-Tanev; Bieksa-Hamhuis; Corrado-Weber-Clendening

 

[WTG]

I don't know, I just felt like this signing doesn't make sense given the defensive depth in Utica next season.

It's likely Utica will have Sanguinetti, Biega, Pedan, Subban and possibly Hutton.

We still have McEneny, Cederholm (probably ECHL bound) and Liberti (unsigned).

That's assuming Negrin is gone (unlikely), Corrado is NHL bound.

This signing might make sense if Sbisa is let go and a slot opens up on the NHL roster:

Edler-Tanev; Bieksa-Hamhuis; Corrado-Weber-Clendening

Take it into context.

Benning went and talked to Hutton about the contract ----> few days later signs another LHD.

Could be Hutton is unconvinced and staying and finishing his degree. All speculation of course. Could also mean that Benning thinks Pedan makes the team out of training camp. It could mean a bunch of things.

I wouldn't sit here worrying about a contract slot.

 

[Wilch]

Take it into context.

Benning went and talked to Hutton about the contract ----> few days later signs another LHD.

Could be Hutton is unconvinced and staying and finishing his degree. All speculation of course. Could also mean that Benning thinks Pedan makes the team out of training camp. It could mean a bunch of things.

I wouldn't sit here worrying about a contract slot.

Banking on contingencies like Pedan making the team out of camp would be foolish. As well as Pedan is progressing, throwing him to the wolves could hurt his development.

I also don't think signing more defensive defenseman is something we should be doing, considering it's not our most glaring weakness.

Losing a single contract slot to someone who may not play a game of NHL is poor management, and while trivial, these types of decisions can cumulate into something a lot worse later on down the road.

Anyway, I'm not sure how close we are to the 50 man limit (anyone know where we can check this officially?), but it shouldn't be a major issue for the time being.

 

[Phred Phlinstone]

It's not easy at all to get rid of bad contracts.

The only time you ever see them moved is to even up slots in a 1-for-0 or 2-for-1 trade (like Mallet being put into the Pedan deal) but that doesn't open another slot back up.

That's what unconditional waivers for the purposes of releasing players from their NHL contracts are for. Canucks didn't find it too difficult to cut ties with Tom Sestito and Henrik Tommernes.

 

[Verviticus]

a Canadian born on his elc categorically will not agree to terminate his contract unless he has a terminal illness, lol

 

[TheWanderer]

Banking on contingencies like Pedan making the team out of camp would be foolish. As well as Pedan is progressing, throwing him to the wolves could hurt his development.

I also don't think signing more defensive defenseman is something we should be doing, considering it's not our most glaring weakness.

Losing a single contract slot to someone who may not play a game of NHL is poor management, and while trivial, these types of decisions can cumulate into something a lot worse later on down the road.

Anyway, I'm not sure how close we are to the 50 man limit (anyone know where we can check this officially?), but it shouldn't be a major issue for the time being.

How do you manage to be negative about a free prospect? We have space, as far as contract slots go - if you need confirmation on that, check earlier in this thread. If he is worse than a more deserving player, like Hutton, that gets settled in camp.

We signed Fox last year, and he went to the ECHL. So did Valk. What harm has been done there? Same could happen to Sautner. Or, we struck home once again.

If Gillis acted the way it appears that you would, we would not have Burrows, Kenins, Lack, Tanev... and I'm probably forgetting something.

 

[Verviticus]

That was a bizarre, bizarre trade. Not sure what TB was thinking. But in any case, Ashton is a fringe NHLer. Not a guy in the Blomstrand/Mallet category.

If Sautner becomes an AHL/NHL tweener, there isn't much wrong with this signing. It's the opportunity loss if he can't cut it in the AHL that's the problem.

wasn't a big deal with Jeff Costello. who? exactly

it's only a big deal when you need it NOW. not hard to plan for. and besides, this is a rare time I'm willing to say there might be something we don't know re: what ufas are even willing to sign

imo not spending contract slots is often a bad thing if you have thrm

 

[Wilch]

How do you manage to be negative about a free prospect? We have space, as far as contract slots go - if you need confirmation on that, check earlier in this thread. If he is worse than a more deserving player, like Hutton, that gets settled in camp.

We signed Fox last year, and he went to the ECHL. So did Valk. What harm has been done there? Same could happen to Sautner. Or, we struck home once again.

If Gillis acted the way it appears that you would, we would not have Burrows, Kenins, Lack, Tanev... and I'm probably forgetting something.

He took up a contract spot, it ain't free. And why do I have to be positive about everything this organization does? I see an issue, and I point it out.

I was pretty positive about Benning acquiring Baertschi, and that was far from free. So if you're trying to associate my opinion of a matter with my distrust for the current management group, you'd be mistaken.

The Fox and Valk signing I was much more comfortable with given the production they had prior to the signing and the organization's desperate need for offensive forwards.

You're right about the contract slots - it's trivial. My concern is shifting from the OHL (a league we had good success with) to the WHL (a league where our scouting has been traditionally brutal).

But now that Sautner's signed, I will root for him. It's that simple.

 

[arsmaster*]

Just because he was free doesn't = good.

I mean I drive by couches parked at the end of people's driveways sometimes. Doesn't mean it's nice or that one you spent money on was worse.

It's not being negative it's perspective. Yeah once in awhile you get a lack/Tanev. Most of the time you get a mid level AHL player.

 

[Serac]

Just because he was free doesn't = good.

I mean I drive by couches parked at the end of people's driveways sometimes. Doesn't mean it's nice or that one you spent money on was worse.

It's not being negative it's perspective. Yeah once in awhile you get a lack/Tanev. Most of the time you get a mid level AHL player.

Still have to take the chance on some guys you consider good, as I assume Benning (or whoever has scouted him) must think
Seems decent from the stuff I've heard
Especially when the only asset you give up is a contract spot that can be easily rectified at a later date when we absolutely need it

 

[Iceberg Slim]

Take it into context.

Benning went and talked to Hutton about the contract ----> few days later signs another LHD.

Could be Hutton is unconvinced and staying and finishing his degree. All speculation of course. Could also mean that Benning thinks Pedan makes the team out of training camp. It could mean a bunch of things.

I wouldn't sit here worrying about a contract slot.

Has there been any confirmation anywhere that Hutton was offered an ELC?

His March 9th interview in the Bangor Daily News seemed to suggest that Hutton hadn't yet been approached by the Canucks regarding a contract.

And he's quoted as saying that everything was "up in the air" but if/when he's offered a deal, he'll make a decision after talking it over with his family.

https://bangordailynews.com/2015/03...re-leaving-umaine-to-begin-pro-hockey-career/

 

[iceburg]

Don't know why people get hung up on contract slots. On a three year cycle there are so many that become RFAs every year. Any signing like this one only has to be better than the worst RFA under contract in any given season. If we don't trust JB to make that assessment then...

 

[WTG]

Has there been any confirmation anywhere that Hutton was offered an ELC?

His March 9th interview in the Bangor Daily News seemed to suggest that Hutton hadn't yet been approached by the Canucks regarding a contract.

And he's quoted as saying that everything was "up in the air" but if/when he's offered a deal, he'll make a decision after talking it over with his family.

https://bangordailynews.com/2015/03...re-leaving-umaine-to-begin-pro-hockey-career/

Don't know. It's all speculation. I don't know Benning's plan.

I guess we'll find out Benning's plan in training camp next year.

 

[WTG]

Don't know why people get hung up on contract slots. On a three year cycle there are so many that become RFAs every year. Any signing like this one only has to be better than the worst RFA under contract in any given season. If we don't trust JB to make that assessment then...

People don't trust Benning.

I guess.

 

[TheWanderer]

He took up a contract spot, it ain't free. And why do I have to be positive about everything this organization does? I see an issue, and I point it out.

I was pretty positive about Benning acquiring Baertschi, and that was far from free. So if you're trying to associate my opinion of a matter with my distrust for the current management group, you'd be mistaken.

The Fox and Valk signing I was much more comfortable with given the production they had prior to the signing and the organization's desperate need for offensive forwards.

You're right about the contract slots - it's trivial. My concern is shifting from the OHL (a league we had good success with) to the WHL (a league where our scouting has been traditionally brutal).

But now that Sautner's signed, I will root for him. It's that simple.

Fair enough. The contract slots are a non-issue, and I'm glad you pointed that out because I didn't get that impression from you before.

I wasn't implying any sort of negativity towards management.

I think Sautner is on a big upswing in his development, and that is a similar situation to the Fox (aside from the off ice stuff) and Valk signings. I have no big issue with it being a free-agent signing in the WHL because it may make Benning less obligated to use a higher pick in that league. Maybe. But still on that note, I don't think it makes a great deal of sense to stick to one league to begin with. All the leagues should be looked at. That we drafted Virtanen last year, and signed a WHL guy this year, I mean... people have been complaining about our lack of focus on the WHL for years now.


My initial point is that contract slots aren't exactly hot commodities. They are something that you have to worry about squandering, rather than wasting. It's always good to have one or two available for trades, but even then prospects can be moved for picks.

 

[iceburg]

People don't trust Benning.

I guess.

I guess...but that's a pretty harsh indictment of a guy who has spent 30 years evaluating talent and who is pretty well respected by his peers

 

[TheWanderer]

Just because he was free doesn't = good.

I mean I drive by couches parked at the end of people's driveways sometimes. Doesn't mean it's nice or that one you spent money on was worse.

It's not being negative it's perspective. Yeah once in awhile you get a lack/Tanev. Most of the time you get a mid level AHL player.

I think it's pretty outlandish to compare this situation to a couch on the side of the road... that's the waiver wire. Stanton, for example, happened to be a decent couch. McMillan? Not so much.

Think where our modern Canucks would be/have been without Burrows. Then, it's Tanev and Lack. Now Kenins.

It's not like a couch on the side of the road. It's more like used cars... you get a of lemons, but once in a while you get one that's in it for the long haul, but you don't get the brand new car with all the bells and whistles and the warranty on Craigslist or wherever people buy used cars these days...

 

[Wilch]

I see Sautner as a slightly undersized defensive defender.

Unless his point production is set for a large upswing, I can't see someone like that making the NHL.

 

[TheWanderer]

I see Sautner as a slightly undersized defensive defender.

Unless his point production is set for a large upswing, I can't see someone like that making the NHL.

The same could have been said about Tanev when we first signed him. No, the expectation for him to be a Tanev isn't there, don't get me wrong. But you don't know unless you try, and as someone else said... he just has to be better than the guy we don't re-sign. There's lots of space in the Zoo for him if he's not good enough for the AHL.

My memory may not be serving me correctly, but wasn't part of the thing with signing Tanev his growth spurt and sudden increase in offensive production after going undrafted? Isn't Sautner's situation similar? I wouldn't mind if someone refreshed my memory.

I mean, who knows. Maybe he goes offence, rather than defence like Tanev. Maybe he follows Tanev's footsteps. Maybe he goes half-half? Maybe he just busts. Then you just shrug your shoulders and say "next". No?

 

[Iceberg Slim]

Don't know. It's all speculation. I don't know Benning's plan.

I guess we'll find out Benning's plan in training camp next year.

True. But hopefully we'll know about Hutton's plans a little sooner than next year's camp, at least as far as where he hopes to play hockey during the 2015-16 season.

I guess I'm just wondering if all the contract talk is based on Botchford's tweet and the post on White Towel where it sounds like a done deal between Vancouver and Hutton. Yet the only real source material I can find seems to suggest that there hasn't been any official contract dialogue (yet) between the two camps.

And while Hutton sounds like he's looking ahead to next year with Maine, he's also pretty clear that he sees himself playing pro hockey either this year (2015-16) or the next.

Reading between the lines, to my eyes at least, it looks like the Canucks want to try to get something done but that Botchford jumped the gun a little by making it sound like there was anything imminent in the way of a signing announcement. And now (mostly due to Botchford's "announcement"), with every passing day, it seems like Hutton must have turned the offer down.

But maybe the truth is that the offer hasn't even been formally made yet?

And maybe when an ELC offer actually comes from Vancouver, Hutton will be quite happy to put ink to paper and start the next phase of his hockey career.

EDIT: And mods, this is the last I'll post on Hutton in the Sautner thread. Was just responding to something someone posted here earlier, but I'll take this line of conversation over to the Hutton thread.

 

[WTG]

I see Sautner as a slightly undersized defensive defender.

Unless his point production is set for a large upswing, I can't see someone like that making the NHL.

Sautner is 6'0 I wouldn't worry about it. That's 1 inch under the league average. Same height as PK Subban.

His size is not the issue.

 

[TheWanderer]

Subban is 6' now?