Recalled/Assigned: Canucks recall D Jack Rathbone (Apr 16)

[Peen]

Just a little further to my comments above.

People get so excited about Offensive Dmen, but that fact is, if the coach can not find a way to keep his +- in the positive, then it does not matter what his over all contributions are......meaning is he on for more goals for than against.

If it is the later, it does not matter how many points he gets

There's definitely a point where an offensive player's powerplay production can make up for their problems at ES. It needs to be evaluated case by case. Calls tend to tighten up in the playoffs and the powerplays might be more scarce. Can Hughes outplay his matchups at a 2nd pairing level?

How much is a guy who plays 2nd pairing matchups to hold their head above water even worth? He couldn't do it last year.

 

[zcaptain]

There's definitely a point where an offensive player's powerplay production can make up for their problems at ES. It needs to be evaluated case by case. Calls tend to tighten up in the playoffs and the powerplays might be more scarce. Can Hughes outplay his matchups at a 2nd pairing level?

How much is a guy who plays 2nd pairing matchups to hold their head above water even worth? He couldn't do it last year.

I think that is the question..........
maybe he plays 3rd pairing or like I suggested earlier, he gets a ligit RHD to protect him

 

[F A N]

There's definitely a point where an offensive player's powerplay production can make up for their problems at ES. It needs to be evaluated case by case. Calls tend to tighten up in the playoffs and the powerplays might be more scarce. Can Hughes outplay his matchups at a 2nd pairing level?

How much is a guy who plays 2nd pairing matchups to hold their head above water even worth? He couldn't do it last year.

He had 16 points in 17 playoff games (including play-in). That's what you're paying him for - elite level offensive production from the backend.

 

[Peen]

He had 16 points in 17 playoff games (including play-in). That's what you're paying him for - elite level offensive production from the backend.

That production wasn’t consistent through the playoffs.

 

[F A N]

That production wasn’t consistent through the playoffs.

He had 6 points against Vegas. 5 of those came in Game 4, 5, and 6. The Canucks lost Game 7. He had 4 points against St. Louis in 6 games. I'm not sure what you expect of him here.

 

[strattonius]

That production wasn’t consistent through the playoffs.

Do you think point per game players get 1 pt every night and take the rest of the night off?

There are variances with all point totals, and the higher you get, the higher the variance. To use Hughes' incredible point totals as some sort of 'inconsistent' argument is hella stupid.

 

[Peen]

He had 6 points against Vegas. 5 of those came in Game 4, 5, and 6. The Canucks lost Game 7. He had 4 points against St. Louis in 6 games. I'm not sure what you expect of him here.

The problem was that as the playoffs went on, his ice time decreased because he was struggling on defense.

He became over reliant on powerplays to produce. A majority of his playoff points came on the PP, and he got killed defensively.

My point is that - if you run into series where you’re not getting favorable calls - Hughes has not shown an ability to keep his head above water at ES in top four matchups.

 

[Peen]

Do you think point per game players get 1 pt every night and take the rest of the night off?

There are variances with all point totals, and the higher you get, the higher the variance. To use Hughes' incredible point totals as some sort of 'inconsistent' argument is hella stupid.

No, I don’t. I’m sure you knew that?

This goes back to my point. His point totals were objectively good but they were inflated by a hot powerplay.

He got destroyed at evens as the playoffs went on. Can he either up his ES production or improve his ES defense to be enough to hold his head near or above water against good teams? Hasn’t been shown yet.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The battle for the third pairing LHD spot is going to be interesting...Hughes and OEL are going to have all the PP time , and most of the ES minutes locked up,..... Whats left over is going to go to Rathbone/ Juolevi...Juolevi PK's , Rathbone does not...Rathbone has more poise and tenacity than Juolevi...With the crowd on the left side, eventually something is going to have to give...and someones going to be moved for a top 4 RHD...IMO

 

[F A N]

The problem was that as the playoffs went on, his ice time decreased because he was struggling on defense.

He became over reliant on powerplays to produce. A majority of his playoff points came on the PP, and he got killed defensively.

My point is that - if you run into series where you’re not getting favorable calls - Hughes has not shown an ability to keep his head above water at ES in top four matchups.

Only 2 out of his 6 points against Vegas was on the PP.

Vegas did a good job of targeting Hughes and who on the Canucks didn't struggle defensively against Vegas in that series? Hughes was also battling some injuries.

I'm not saying Hughes doesn't have to figure things out.

 

[NYVanfan]

This was what I was wondering. In the best of all worlds, what happens if both OJ and Rathbone break out and play really well?
Can someone of those 4 play on the right side?
Or is there a team with a good young RD that would trade for one of those guys?

The battle for the third pairing LHD spot is going to be interesting...Hughes and OEL are going to have all the PP time , and most of the ES minutes locked up,..... Whats left over is going to go to Rathbone/ Juolevi...Juolevi PK's , Rathbone does not...Rathbone has more poise and tenacity than Juolevi...With the crowd on the left side, eventually something is going to have to give...and someones going to be moved for a top 4 RHD...IMO

 

[MarkMM]

This was what I was wondering. In the best of all worlds, what happens if both OJ and Rathbone break out and play really well?
Can someone of those 4 play on the right side?
Or is there a team with a good young RD that would trade for one of those guys?

I recall Hughes saying after he was drafted that he was equally comfortable on the left or right side, but I think it's Green that has a strong preference for players to play on their "proper" side.

 

[canuckking1]

The problem was that as the playoffs went on, his ice time decreased because he was struggling on defense.

.

?

He lead the team ice time in both the STL series and Wild series well being + at 5v5 in both series. In fact, the blues series was his best defensively where he lead the team in ES toi and had a 62GF%

 

[Peen]

?

He lead the team ice time in both the STL series and Wild series well being + at 5v5 in both series. In fact, the blues series was his best defensively where he lead the team in ES toi and had a 62GF%

Not sure how you’re confused by this. I can make a graph for you on excel.

 

[tradervik]

What's better for Rathbone's development, limited 3rd pairing ice time in the NHL or big minutes in the AHL? Thinking back to past development mistakes, I'm thinking big minutes in the AHL until he shows he has nothing left to learn there.

 

[PavelBure10]

Other than the big guns and the newly acquired Connor Garland. Jack Rathbone is the player I am most intrigued about this upcoming season. I think he is going to be a stud for us.

 

[NYVanfan]

I recall Hughes saying after he was drafted that he was equally comfortable on the left or right side, but I think it's Green that has a strong preference for players to play on their "proper" side.

Right. Which means one of those dudes would be trade bait…

 

[F A N]

I recall Hughes saying after he was drafted that he was equally comfortable on the left or right side, but I think it's Green that has a strong preference for players to play on their "proper" side.

Green did play Schmidt on his offside so there is some hope. Personally, I want Hughes to play on his best side. I dislike the idea of moving him just because he can play the right side.

 

[MarkMM]

Green did play Schmidt on his offside so there is some hope. Personally, I want Hughes to play on his best side. I dislike the idea of moving him just because he can play the right side.

Yeah, I'd optimize him for where he's best and if that's the left side then agreed, wouldn't move him.

If he's equally good on the right side (I think Schmidt even preferred it, so maybe some do play better on their off side?) then it would open up some more possibilities, but the solution really is to find a way to get a top RHD.

 

[GetFocht]

Green did play Schmidt on his offside so there is some hope. Personally, I want Hughes to play on his best side. I dislike the idea of moving him just because he can play the right side.

and Schmidt was gone within a year, Defenceman on their offside doesn't work too well in the NHL. Even Vegas wanted to offload him for a Pietroanglo who is RH.

 

[F A N]

and Schmidt was gone within a year, Defenceman on their offside doesn't work too well in the NHL. Even Vegas wanted to offload him for a Pietroanglo who is RH.

Didn't Orr and Bourque play on their offside? Ehrhoff (in no way comparing him to the greats) did pretty well playing on his off side.

There are Dmen that are better on their offside. Schmidt and TJ Brodie springs to mind. Shea Theodore is still being used by Vegas on the right side. Hjalmarsson preferred the right side but he's good on both sides. Tampa used Sergachev on the right side with success as well.

I think it's something Dmen can get used to playing and excel at. In this day and age, you could easily track whether a Dman plays better on his natural vs off side so we don't really need to rely on preconceived notions.

 

[VanJack]

If a guy like Jordie Benn can adapt to playing either the right or left side, then anybody can. The real issue is probably the coach, who is absolutely wedded to his left-right d-pairings.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

What's better for Rathbone's development, limited 3rd pairing ice time in the NHL or big minutes in the AHL? Thinking back to past development mistakes, I'm thinking big minutes in the AHL until he shows he has nothing left to learn there.

I thought that he demonstrated enough last season that he can definitely play in the league...Thing is, is that Hughes does not PK...So the 3rd pairing LHD has to be able to.. .The decision between Juolevi and Rathbone could come down to that.

 

[F A N]

If a guy like Jordie Benn can adapt to playing either the right or left side, then anybody can. The real issue is probably the coach, who is absolutely wedded to his left-right d-pairings.

Funny enough, "the coach" has played Jordie Benn on his offside.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

If a guy like Jordie Benn can adapt to playing either the right or left side, then anybody can. The real issue is probably the coach, who is absolutely wedded to his left-right d-pairings.

It is 100% a coaching problem. This is the same coach that has been playing Pettersson at center for three years but not letting him take draws. If you never let him take a draw, how is he going to improve? If you never play a left-hand D on the right side, how do you know they can't do it? Green is inflexible and doesn't "renovate to suit" to make his club better.