Baertschi being injured (again) kind of throw a wrench into things. We still don't really know what we have. I'll do a 1-3 year deal.
Waived: Canucks place F Sven Baertschi on waivers (Dec 15)
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I'd argue that we do know what we have. Unless he's a statistical outlier, we've probably seen all that we are going to see from Sven in terms of offensive production. In other words, he's a 40-45 point 2nd line player. Expecting him to blossom into something beyond that is unreasonable.
What that's worth in terms of a new contract is always up for debate. I'd be more concerned about term than cap hit, frankly.
It may be for the best that Baerstchi is done for the season. Although he was on pace for a career year, a shortfall in production/ice time to end the season might make his next contract negotiation a bit easier while also allowing his extra ice time to be distributed among the other young developing Canucks forwards.
I think Sam Gagner's contract is a good template for what we should see with Sven.
I think Sam Gagner's contract is a good template for what we should see with Sven.
How do we not know what the canucks have in Baertschi? He's 26 years old when next season begins and has never got beyond 35 points. You can go point pace etc if you want but ultimately you have a ~30 point player with favourable icetime. It is what it is.
You qualify him or move him. I wouldn't be going multi-year unless he takes a per year cut.
You qualify him or move him. I wouldn't be going multi-year unless he takes a per year cut.
Cupless44
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Something has to give with this roster that has been the 2nd worst team in the NHL over the last 3 seasons. As it stands now they have the same defence signed for next year which is clearly not good enough. All these veterans surely cant be sold as returning for next year. Surely they have to take a serious look at RFAs like Baertschi and Granlund to see if it is time to move on.
Agreed.
But I think they will be bringing almost everyone back and slotting Pettersson in. That's about it. And they will expect a different outcome.
There should be a significant amount of roster churn this summer. 3 years in the bottom 5 would sem to necessitate that.
Cupless44
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I think you are probably right. After the last 3 seasons, this management's determination to keep all these veterans together is one of the most misguided and ridiculous things i have seen from a hockey club. Dumbfounding.
If there's a deal, I wouldn't be opposed to moving on from Baertschi. Would definitely depend on whether the Sedins are coming back though. Otherwise, he's a good top 6 placeholder till younger guys push him out. That's the hope anyway. I think I'd look to resign Granlund though. Especially if he's realistic about salary and term. He had a good role on this team early on until injuries derailed that line. I like where Green was headed with Granlund, I think he can develop into a solid 3rd liner.
Let's keep the same team that keeps finishing bottom-three! Yah that'll do it!
On the topic of Baertschi, I think the best move would be to move him for a late 1st or a couple 2nds. But that would be acquiring picks, and we know how hard it is to find those...
Cupless44
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I am sorry but watching these same players over and over and over and expecting different results is like the definition of insanity.
And frankly, Baertschi while not the worst on a team full of stale, mediocre veterans, is no screaming hell as a top 6 forward. Far, far too inconsistent with his play and his intensity.
Who said I expected different results from the current NHL group? We gotta hope the young players in our system can push the mediocre veterans out. Until they do, we are going to be a nonplayoff team. And if they never do, then we will be at the bottom a long, long time. Frankly, until then, I'd rather be near the bottom than in the 8-12 range.
As much as I like baer and granny for that matter, it’s time to move them both. They were both good trades at the time and it’s worth a shot but this team needs face lift/shot in the arm.
Trade them for draft picks and bring more speed into the forward group
Trade them for draft picks and bring more speed into the forward group
Cupless44
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Pretty much where I am at. You simply cannot bring back the exact same veteran group for next year on the 2nd worst team in the league the past 3 seasons.
100%. It was worth a shot, wasn’t a bust, but it wasn’t a boom either. Time to move on a recoup some picks. If at the very least we gets some picks and replace their roster spots with the likes of gaudette and petterson, we’ve at least mixed it up and got some upside in the lineup.
I’m of the belief we need at least 3 new forwards and 2 new d. Can’t come back with the same or close to the same and expect anything better
Numba9
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Man Baertschi is so underrated. He's the perfect type of cheap depth player you need on a good team. He can play on the third line and when injuries hit he can move up and contribute. It seems like a lot people think when the Canucks are good again that they are going to have three first lines.
BloatedGuppy
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For me it's a composition issue with Sven:
Sedin
Sedin
Eriksson
Boeser
Goldobin
Gagner
Granlund
Baertschi
Boucher
Leipsic
Pettersson
Dahlen
Lind
Vanek (*if returning)
This is a group of players the Canucks have assembled expected to be on/contend for lineup spots over the next couple seasons. This is the "nice to know you" group. They're not gonna hit you. They're not going to win a whole hell of a lot of puck battles. Most are pretty gentle. Only a few are fast or play with any intensity.
On the "might win a puck battle" side of things we have:
Horvat
Archibald
Sutter
Virtanen
And Gaunce, if you feel like being REALLY charitable with Gaunce. The 2011 squad, notoriously slammed (somewhat unfairly) for being "too soft to win it all" while getting ragdolled in the Finals, featured Torres, Kesler, Burrows, Higgins, Lapierre and Malhotra sprinkled amidst its lines. And all due respect for the new leaf Virtanen seems to have turned over, including him in our "hard nosed warrior" group seems a little bit hilarious given his consistency issues.
SOMEONE on this Canucks squad needs to be able to play a hard game when necessary. Just like you don't want to ice a "meat and potatoes" lineup with nothing but low skill grinders, so too do you shy away from icing a roster that is 100% gentle bens. And if you're going to start shuffling that roster to turn guys over, where do you start? Not gonna trade the Sedins. Can't trade Eriksson. Not gonna touch the young guys. So where do you start?
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
I agree mostly but i think Gaunce wins more puck battles than Sutter. Also thats 18 forwards (and you haven't even included Motte) at least 4 have to go probably 5 since Canucks has gone with 8 d-men over the last years.
I would prefer to move on from Granlund, Boucher and leave Motte in the Minors. Trade Gagner , Sutter and Eriksson for anything even a cap dump. And if I were the GM I wouldn't re-sign the Sedins or Vanek.
That won't happened though I expect at least 7 of the players able to be back next year, and probably another bottom 5 finish unless Pettersson has an exceptional season.
Oh and by the way I think Pettersson will be good next year.
I would prefer to move on from Granlund, Boucher and leave Motte in the Minors. Trade Gagner , Sutter and Eriksson for anything even a cap dump. And if I were the GM I wouldn't re-sign the Sedins or Vanek.
That won't happened though I expect at least 7 of the players able to be back next year, and probably another bottom 5 finish unless Pettersson has an exceptional season.
Oh and by the way I think Pettersson will be good next year.
Cupless44
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And apparently, they are not going to score a lot either!
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Josepho
i want the bartkowski thread back
There are a shitload of players to dump before Baertschi.
I am in no way against trading him but lumping him with waiver wire shit like Granlund is ridiculous and they should have completely different value on the market.
pgj98m3
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Well make that 4-5 seasons if you are going to start trading away young scoring forwards as soon as they start to establish themselves in the NHL.
