Rumor: Canucks offered 1st, 2nd, Sutter, Virtanen for OEL

[rt]

While we’re on the subject of OEL to Vancouver, does anyone know when signing bonus day is this year? And what about buyout day?

Which this correct order of these events?

1. Entry Draft Day
2. Buy-Out Day
3. Signing Bonus Day

?????

 

[TeddyBare]

If you think OEL doesn't have trade value (let alone negative, lol!) , I want what whatever you're on. Actually maybe I don't, that seems harmful to the brain.

OEL with fetch a significant package if he is dealt, and there's a good chance he'll be the #1 wherever he goes.

Haven't a couple of sources said the coyotes are going into the market.
big difference between going into the market to seek interest

that alone tells you they don't want to paying one of the highest caps in the league for a d-man on the 2nd pairing

 

[rt]

OEL with fetch a significant package if he is dealt….

Incorrect.

…there's a good chance he'll be the #1 wherever he goes.

Correct.

 

[bov]

Incorrect.

Correct.

I feel like your 2 comments directly contradict each other.

You're acknowledging that a team acquiring him could see him as their #1, yet you don't see him having trade value?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

He does in the right context.

He’s a much better defenseman than say Tyler Myers. And Jim Benning is likely to be pretty desperate. After signing bonus day, Myers is owed 5m in real dollars but has a 6aav cap hit. Loui Eriksson is barely an NHL player. After SB day he’s owed 3m but has a 6aav cap hit. OEL is owed 10.5m next season but has a 8.25aav hit. Arizona could trade OEL to Vancouver for Myers and Eriksson and save 1.5m in budget space. Meanwhile, Vancouver would get 3.75aav in cap space freed up and get a substantial upgrade on Myers in the process.

So in that context, I’m sure a desperate GM like Jim Benning would be thrilled to make such a trade. And I’m sure he’d be willing to add some kind of an asset that Arizona would be happy to acquire. Something like Vancouver’s early 2nd round pick on the draft, as an example. Arizona hasn’t had many picks (f*** you John Chayka) recently and could really use another one.

So if the question is “does OEL have any value” the answer is “it’s complicated”.

But it's the term.

There's no question that next season and the season after that getting him instead of Myers and Eriksson is a fleecing. But then there's 4 more years where if he loses even a stride or two, he becomes an albatross at 8.25. I'm not willing to take the gamble unless Arizona retained 2.25 and took something like Myers and Eriksson and a 2nd in return, and I can't see Arizona doing that. I don't think it's a fit.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Just you wait and see.

Nate Schmidt went for a 3rd round pick.

Markus Nutivarra went for a B prospect.

Ryan Murray went for a 5th round pick.

Olli Maatta (before he fell off the map in LA) went for Brad Morrison.

Joel Edmundson went for a 5th round pick.

Although OEL is better than most of the defenseman on the list (he's probably a wash with Schmidt), OEL's contract is 10x worse than any of these defenseman. Six more years at $8.25M for a #3/4 defenseman is how you put your team in cap hell. Which team would give up assets to put themselves in cap hell? Think about it for a second bud.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I disagree.

You can see several posters here saying this offer was "trash" and not really taking any feedback seriously.

I don't think this is being "a dick". We are simply revisiting a thread with a lot of wrong opinions.

EDIT: I'll be happy for Arizona if can get something for OEL, though that looks very unlikely at this point unless they are taking on an equally bad contract or retaining a huge portion of the salary. I'm more so fascinated by this thread... what a turnaround in only nine months.

You disagree that it's a bad energy, but you literally have a post quoting several posters where all you say is, 'this thread showed us who the dummies are'. I mean, that's not trying to generate conversation in good faith, it's smug and disrespectful.

 

[rt]

I feel like your 2 comments directly contradict each other.

You're acknowledging that a team acquiring him could see him as their #1, yet you don't see him having trade value?

They won’t pay for what they hope they’ll get and they won’t have to.

The Coyotes will trade OEL for a contract dump that’s a little more palatable (Myers, Gostisbehere, Lucic, Kassian) and an okay asset (like a 2nd round pick).

 

[rt]

But it's the term.

There's no question that next season and the season after that getting him instead of Myers and Eriksson is a fleecing. But then there's 4 more years where if he loses even a stride or two, he becomes an albatross at 8.25. I'm not willing to take the gamble unless Arizona retained 2.25 and took something like Myers and Eriksson and a 2nd in return, and I can't see Arizona doing that. I don't think it's a fit.

Arizona won’t retain. They’ll get a dump and a pick. And it’ll probably be from Benning.

 

[bov]

Haven't a couple of sources said the coyotes are going into the market.
big difference between going into the market to seek interest

that alone tells you they don't want to paying one of the highest caps in the league for a d-man on the 2nd pairing

Coyotes aren't exactly loaded compared to the rest of the league, so yes, I'm sure they could live with moving an 8 something AAV...

I'm talking to those who think that OEL doesn't have trade value, I even saw a comment suggesting his value is negative. This will be proven horribly wrong if he does indeed get dealt. I don't have much more to add except "just watch and see for yourself".

This is a quality player, captain of his team who has logged big minutes for years, and has been viewed as one of the league's better defensemen at a younger age. His game didn't just disappear from 27-29, and he hasn't really had the benefit of being alongside a top pairing caliber player in recent years, if ever.

 

[JohnHodgson]

You disagree that it's a bad energy, but you literally have a post quoting several posters where all you say is, 'this thread showed us who the dummies are'. I mean, that's not trying to generate conversation in good faith, it's smug and disrespectful.

As opposed to those who were calling this offer "trash" and refusing to hear otherwise? Now that's considered generating conversation in good faith?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Arizona won’t retain. They’ll get a dump and a pick. And it’ll probably be from Benning.

I don't disagree with you that Arizona won't retain, but I doubt Benning will do it, and I hope he doesn't, if they won't.

 

[Ainec]

Cant believe this dud is a GM. But then I've been following other leagues and it seems hockey isn't so special

 

[deckercky]

Despite it creating issues in terms of handedness, and more problems 4 seasons down the line, I'd definitely OEL for Myers + 2nd, then deal with cap issues at the tail end of OEL's contract.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

As opposed to those who were calling this offer "trash" and refusing to hear otherwise? Now that's considered generating conversation in good faith?

You can't see the difference between a conversation within a thread where:

Canucks fan: 'we offer x and y but you have to take z and retain'.

Coyotes fan: "No, that's trash".

Versus:

9 months later:

John Hodgson, "Lolz you are all dumb".

To you, these are precise equivalents of each other?

 

[rt]

I don't disagree with you that Arizona won't retain, but I doubt Benning will do it, and I hope he doesn't, if they won't.

I’m going to predict OEL and Fischer for Myers, Eriksson, Motte, and a decent pick/prospect (in the 2nd round pick zone of value). Maybe OEL, Fischer and Capobianco for Myers, Eriksson, Motte and Juolevi (or something).

I sense a convoluted package of basically nothing in exchange for a convoluted package of basically nothing.

 

[bov]

Nate Schmidt went for a 3rd round pick.

Markus Nutivarra went for a B prospect.

Ryan Murray went for a 5th round pick.

Olli Maatta (before he fell off the map in LA) went for Brad Morrison.

Joel Edmundson went for a 5th round pick.

Although OEL is better than most of the defenseman on the list (he's probably a wash with Schmidt), OEL's contract is 10x worse than any of these defenseman. Six more years at $8.25M for a #3/4 defenseman is how you put your team in cap hell. Which team would give up assets to put themselves in cap hell? Think about it for a second bud.

Most of the teams looking for an OEL likely have cap space to work with. It's not "cap hell" if you believe you're trading for your new best defenseman, which will almost certainly be the case. I do agree with the notion that there may be a larger contract going the other way, which further cushions the blow.

Maatta, Edmundson, Murray, Nutivaara...are you kidding? None of these guys are relevant in any way, shape or form as comparables.

Schmidt is a very good player and getting him for a 3rd was absolute robbery and many acknowledged how bad the value was at the time. He's an example of a good player who was acquired for pennies on the dollar, just a terrible deal where Benning took advantage. Not exactly a model for anything OEL related.

 

[JohnHodgson]

You can't see the difference between a conversation within a thread where:

Canucks fan: 'we offer x and y but you have to take z and retain'.

Coyotes fan: "No, that's trash".

Versus:

9 months later:

John Hodgson, "Lolz you are all dumb".

To you, these are precise equivalents of each other?

When Coyotes/other team fans were saying "that offer is trash", they were basically saying:

"lolz your offer is so stupid it wouldn't even get accepted in nhl 21 lolz"

"lolz your offer is dumb, OEL is an elite talent lolz"

"lolz Canucks stop dreaming, that is a terrible offer lolz"

If you want to be fair, at least do it both ways.

A little chriping on a hockey message board isn't going to kill anyone. No need to be so PC.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I can see Benning making the same deal to Arizona this offseason except swap Sutter for Loui Erikssen

 

[JohnHodgson]

Most of the teams looking for an OEL likely have cap space to work with. It's not "cap hell" if you believe you're trading for your new best defenseman, which will almost certainly be the case. I do agree with the notion that there may be a larger contract going the other way, which further cushions the blow.

Maatta, Edmundson, Murray, Nutivaara...are you kidding? None of these guys are relevant in any way, shape or form as comparables.

Schmidt is a very good player and getting him for a 3rd was absolute robbery and many acknowledged how bad the value was at the time. He's an example of a good player who was acquired for pennies on the dollar, just a terrible deal where Benning took advantage. Not exactly a model for anything OEL related.

Benning didn't take advantage of anything - this deal fell into his lap.

VGK needed to offload salary to get Pietrangelo. In a flat cap world, nobody could absorb Schmidt's full deal and provide assets to Vegas.

I hope you're joking when you say that OEL is going to be a team's new best defenseman. If OEL is the best defender on the team, the team is not even close to a contender. He's a #3/4.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

You disagree that it's a bad energy, but you literally have a post quoting several posters where all you say is, 'this thread showed us who the dummies are'. I mean, that's not trying to generate conversation in good faith, it's smug and disrespectful.

From a neutral fan...agreed, definitely "being a dick."

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

When Coyotes/other team fans were saying "that offer is trash", they were basically saying:

"lolz your offer is so stupid it wouldn't even get accepted in nhl 21 lolz"

"lolz your offer is dumb, OEL is an elite talent lolz"

"lolz Canucks stop dreaming, that is a terrible offer lolz"

If you want to be fair, at least do it both ways.

A little chriping on a hockey message board isn't going to kill anyone. No need to be so PC.

It's not about 'being PC', it's about not being an asshole for pointless reasons.

And to be clear, I don't know you and I'm not saying you're an asshole, but that this particular thread necro feels like an asshole move.

 

[JohnHodgson]

From a neutral fan...agreed, definitely "being a dick."

Yup. Being a massive dick here.

Chriping some awful takes on a hockey message board and now you're considered a dick. Come on man.

 

[JohnHodgson]

It's not about 'being PC', it's about not being an asshole for pointless reasons.

And to be clear, I don't know you and I'm not saying you're an asshole, but that this particular thread necro feels like an asshole move.

This is literally the definition of PC culture.

Some chirping on some awful takes on a hockey message forum and all of a sudden you're "being a massive dick".

Relax bud. I doubt any of these posters that I quoted give two sh!ts.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

This is literally the definition of PC culture.

Some chirping on some awful takes on a hockey message forum and all of a sudden you're "being a massive dick".

Relax bud. I doubt any of these posters that I quoted give two sh!ts.

That is not 'literally the definition of PC culture'.

It's just being called out for pointless smugness 9 months later.