Canucks Managerial Thread

[bsjezz]

I don't understand this line of thought....


Sutter is hot garbage -> But because he got a big contract it might inspire him to play better.

Why even trade for such a player? I don't understand.

that's not what i said. i said that it's a good combination to have invested veterans as well as excited rookies. how is the leadership going to come from a dude halfway through a two-year contract who's just been brought into a middling team? it isn't.

look, i'd love to have brought in a leader who's also going to dominate corsi and score 40 goals. but it's not feasible. so you find a guy who plugs a hole (3C), has years under his belt but isn't over the hill, and knows as much about losing as he does about winning. sutter's that guy.

i suppose i'm just looking at a team as more than the sum of its parts, though.

 

[Verviticus]

why do we need to pay so much for a guy who wins and loses like a mere mortal

 

[WTG]

that's not what i said. i said that it's a good combination to have invested veterans as well as excited rookies. how is the leadership going to come from a dude halfway through a two-year contract who's just been brought into a middling team? it isn't.

look, i'd love to have brought in a leader who's also going to dominate corsi and score 40 goals. but it's not feasible. so you find a guy who plugs a hole (3C), has years under his belt but isn't over the hill, and knows as much about losing as he does about winning. sutter's that guy.

i suppose i'm just looking at a team as more than the sum of its parts, though.

Alright.

I was wondering I miss interrupted what you said. My bad.

 

[Verviticus]

also to be fair, manny malhotra was widely accepted as one of the 2010-2012 canucks' biggest leadership participant and he was a third line guy on a three year contract. a good leader, if one exists in hockey, will always be that. their tenure is irrelevant

 

[bsjezz]

also to be fair, manny malhotra was widely accepted as one of the 2010-2012 canucks' biggest leadership participant and he was a third line guy on a three year contract. a good leader, if one exists in hockey, will always be that. their tenure is irrelevant

malhotra was invested in vancouver for extra-curricular reasons, though.

 

[WTG]

also to be fair, manny malhotra was widely accepted as one of the 2010-2012 canucks' biggest leadership participant and he was a third line guy on a three year contract. a good leader, if one exists in hockey, will always be that. their tenure is irrelevant

They should really give the guy a job.

Have him teach our guys how to take a faceoff.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Nothing at all wrong with Bartkowski and Dorsett, both signed to market vale deals.

Baertschi will be interesting to watch. I wonder if he has it or not. We will soon find out. if he had been a Canucks 2nd round pick we'd be clamouring to make room for him rather than waive him.

Market value yes, but we also gave up a 2nd for him. While I still stand by the trade itself, this is now the second time we've taken a flyer on another team's trash, hoping to strike oil. For a man constantly fawned over as some sort of talent visionary, we're not exactly seeing a ringing endorsement. That said, I can't entirely fault him, since the odds of 2nd round picks ever becoming worthwhile are probably lower than Baertschi turning around his career. He's still fairly young too. Just a... concern.

 

[Intangibos]

I'm not even sure where to post this, but why can't we discuss what we want to discuss? Talking about Gillis, Kesler, Garrison etc aren't important? How so? Benning was brought in because of Gillis "failures" and Kesler / Garrison are evidence of Benning's failures. Are we supposed to discuss Bennings hair or something, since his trades are off limits?

Bizarre that it's against the rules for us to discuss the team and the issues we see as important. At least make another thread where we can discuss Benning, Gillis and ex-Canucks together. Call it the Benning, Gillis and Canuck comparison thread, and tag it as "avoid at all costs", but let us talk about it.

 

[vanuck]

If Benning was in a room by himself, he still wouldn't be the smartest guy in the room.

I lol'ed.

I wish we could bug bennings phone. Imagine.....

Many laughs would be had. Somebody please do this.

He is a bad negotiator, but Kassian is not a good hockey player.

Sorry but this is completely false.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I'm not even sure where to post this, but why can't we discuss what we want to discuss? Talking about Gillis, Kesler, Garrison etc aren't important? How so? Benning was brought in because of Gillis "failures" and Kesler / Garrison are evidence of Benning's failures. Are we supposed to discuss Bennings hair or something, since his trades are off limits?

Bizarre that it's against the rules for us to discuss the team and the issues we see as important. At least make another thread where we can discuss Benning, Gillis and ex-Canucks together. Call it the Benning, Gillis and Canuck comparison thread, and tag it as "avoid at all costs", but let us talk about it.

You can discuss them, but we want to try limit how much certain discussions dominate a thread. For instance, the last Benning thread had pages worth of Gillis debates. That should be taken to the Former Canucks thread, since it's no longer relevant. Obviously, criticism of Benning will inevitably bring up Gillis, Kesler and etc, and while a little bleed through is fine, it's the long winded arguments we want separated.

Put simply, there have been a lot of complaints from both sides. We're trying this so people who want to avoid talking about Gillis can do so more easily. As for making another thread, we have one just for that here.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

The worst is the attitude. You ask why this is going to work and the aura you get from them is "its gonna work because it is gonna work cause it's always worked".

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

"Sutter is hot garbage"

Wrong.

 

[arsmaster*]

The worst is the attitude. You ask why this is going to work and the aura you get from them is "its gonna work because it is gonna work cause it's always worked".

More like "all of us in here think its gonna work and we got rid of anyone who disagreed, so it's going to work...just ask anyone in this room".

 

[Free Edler]

Keep hammering, Jim. Almost there.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Sutter - A significant upgrade over Bonino if used correctly

"Sutter is hot garbage"

Wrong.

Sutter - A significant upgrade over Bonino if used correctly

If the Canucks are going to get true use and value out of Sutter, they need to use him in a defensive capacity.

This situation reminds me a little of 2006 when the Oilers brought in Mike Peca. For most of the season, they misused Peca by making him the 2nd line center while expecting him to play a two-way game. Peca's game wasn't built like that however. He was always a defense first kind of guy, and excelled in the defensive aspects of the game. His goals usually consisted of him scoring on turnovers, etc.

Once the Oilers started using Peca correctly (i.e. 3rd line shut down center), they maximized him and he was a beast in the playoffs.

Sutter isn't as good as Peca was, but I see a similarity.

If you try and use Sutter as a two-way 2nd line center, you aren't going to get much out of him. Passing and playmaking is NOT his game, and putting him with the likes of Baertschi, Vrbata, etc. will be a frustrating experience for all parties involved.

Play him on the 3rd line however, and he'll be a significant upgrade over Bonino from the defensive side of things. Guys like Hansen, Gaunce, Higgins, and even Burrows (if used in a defensive capacity) are extremely compatible with Sutter's style.

 

[brokenhole]

Why pay that much for a 3rd line center? he was brought in to play on the 2nd line effectively blocking our young center prospects for years.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Gather around the radio boys and girls.... story time with Benning on 1040 in a few minutes.

Both Jake and Pratt against putting Corrado on waivers so I doubt Bennings going to have to face any tough questions on that one.

 

[Nuckles]

Gather around the radio boys and girls.... story time with Benning on 1040 in a few minutes.

Both Jake and Pratt against putting Corrado on waivers so I doubt Bennings going to have to face any tough questions on that one.

I wonder if he'll say that Corrado is "good".

 

[Vtownfan]

Sutter - A significant upgrade over Bonino if used correctly

If the Canucks are going to get true use and value out of Sutter, they need to use him in a defensive capacity.

This situation reminds me a little of 2006 when the Oilers brought in Mike Peca. For most of the season, they misused Peca by making him the 2nd line center while expecting him to play a two-way game. Peca's game wasn't built like that however. He was always a defense first kind of guy, and excelled in the defensive aspects of the game. His goals usually consisted of him scoring on turnovers, etc.

Once the Oilers started using Peca correctly (i.e. 3rd line shut down center), they maximized him and he was a beast in the playoffs.

Sutter isn't as good as Peca was, but I see a similarity.

If you try and use Sutter as a two-way 2nd line center, you aren't going to get much out of him. Passing and playmaking is NOT his game, and putting him with the likes of Baertschi, Vrbata, etc. will be a frustrating experience for all parties involved.

Play him on the 3rd line however, and he'll be a significant upgrade over Bonino from the defensive side of things. Guys like Hansen, Gaunce, Higgins, and even Burrows (if used in a defensive capacity) are extremely compatible with Sutter's style.

Maybe, time will tell. The problem in a nut shell is Benning's lack of future vision.


End of last year Benning decided he wanted more speed in the center ice position and traded for Sutter. Ok, fine, even if it was a gross overpay given that Pittsburgh HAD to trade the guy due to cap issues.

Where he **** the bed yet again was the long term deal. You are right, no one probably expected McCann would be this good, and to be fair it is still only preseason. But, a guy making the slush Benning is, should have seen the possibility (he drafted him after all and saw the kids draft+1 81 points in 56 games) and evaluated the situation.

If I extend Sutter for a stupid length of time, how does that affect the prospects? What am I going to do with both Horvat and McCann if they both meet or beat expectations? I can't trade Sutter for 4 years. How does my cap look with Sutter as a 4.375mil 4th line center? Do I stick McCann in the junior this year and the AHL for 3 more years? Does he rot as a 4C for 3 years?

The smart play is wait and see how Sutter meshes with the team. Can he be the 2C Benning thought he was? How do the rooks do? Then if the rooks make it and things are rolling nicely, come Dec or Jan you sit down with Sutter's team and negotiate from a position of strength.

What you do not do is crown the guy Foundational before even sitting down to the extension talks with his agent. ****, If I was his agent and saw what Benning was saying I would have entered that meeting already planning what I was going to do with my 10% of a HUGE raise on my already overpaid player.

 

[arsmaster*]

I wonder if he'll say that Corrado is "good".

"real good"

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Maybe, time will tell. The problem in a nut shell is Benning's lack of future vision.


End of last year Benning decided he wanted more speed in the center ice position and traded for Sutter. Ok, fine, even if it was a gross overpay given that Pittsburgh HAD to trade the guy due to cap issues.

Where he **** the bed yet again was the long term deal. You are right, no one probably expected McCann would be this good, and to be fair it is still only preseason. But, a guy making the slush Benning is, should have seen the possibility (he drafted him after all and saw the kids draft+1 81 points in 56 games) and evaluated the situation.

If I extend Sutter for a stupid length of time, how does that affect the prospects? What am I going to do with both Horvat and McCann if they both meet or beat expectations? I can't trade Sutter for 4 years. How does my cap look with Sutter as a 4.375mil 4th line center? Do I stick McCann in the junior this year and the AHL for 3 more years? Does he rot as a 4C for 3 years?

The smart play is wait and see how Sutter meshes with the team. Can he be the 2C Benning thought he was? How do the rooks do? Then if the rooks make it and things are rolling nicely, come Dec or Jan you sit down with Sutter's team and negotiate from a position of strength.

What you do not do is crown the guy Foundational before even sitting down to the extension talks with his agent. ****, If I was his agent and saw what Benning was saying I would have entered that meeting already planning what I was going to do with my 10% of a HUGE raise on my already overpaid player.

Cementing a Center that can put 20+ in the net is a priority for every team.

 

[arsmaster*]

"Bonino scored 20 last year, he gives us goals, the coach wants Bonino and he should give us 20 goals". That worked out great eh.

 

[Nuckles]

Benning needs a thesaurus.

 

[Free Edler]

Benning needs a thesaurus.

"No thanks, Trevor. I'm here to run a hockey team, not learn about dinosaurs."

 

[Nuckles]

"No thanks, Trevor. I'm here to run a hockey team, not learn about dinosaurs."

Why would he need to learn about them, he is one.