Canucks Managerial Thread

[ChilliBilly]

I am perhaps the most positive fan on here. Have 4 seasons tickets and always think its going to be a good year.

Benning is supposed to be good at evaluating talent. So ... His massive overpayment for Sbisa, Dorsett, Prust and Sutter will be the answer. I look at this roster, being a cap payroll team ... and just shake my head.

I was amazed last year that we had as good a season as we did.

I will be amazed this year if we make the playoffs.

I can not see any other favorable outcome other than we get a top 3 draft pick, Benning is gone and McCann Virtanen Trymakin Cassels etc etc prove to be great picks.

I suspect the most depressing part of all of this is that Benning seems to need to prove repeatedly that everything Gillis did needs to be fixed, and that all of his moves have been golden. Even though he has already sold 3 - 4 of his decisions for nothing.

Glad that Aquilini (who I think is a very unpleasant *******) is getting his financial ass handed to him with the US$ and the fan base no longer wiling to overpay for tickets.

Benning should be gone by Thanksgiving if the Canucks are not in contention.

 

[DFAC]

^^out of curiosity, did you buy season tix this yr?

 

[greasy goals]

It's really frustrating that we have so many promising youth coming up at a time when our management has never been poorer at evaluating skill and value. I can already picture Benning trading away some of our best kids for low draft picks and/or fringe NHLers on his misguided wishlist.

 

[The Drop]

Not surprising that 95% of Benning acqusiitons have been a disappointment. Glad to see McCann showing promise.

Vey and Baertschi shouldn't even be on this team. Bartkowski, Miller, Prust, Dorsett.

This is getting depressing.

Hopefully this is the last season of Benning and WD.

I also believe it's time that the "great evaluator of talent and scouting pedigree" rep Benning gets should be gone

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

Benning =delusional.He is delusional to think that this team is a 100 plus team this year.Maybe in the AHL they might be.Cant wait for this season to start,then we can all watch JB,s reaction to why this team is going to be a bottom feeder.

 

[Zaddy91]

Bart is great top bur

 

[Horse McHindu]

My lines:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Horvat-Vrbata
Gaunce-Sutter-Hansen
Prust-McCann-Dorsett

Cracknell

Hamhuis-Edler
Hutton-Tanev
Bartkowski-Weber

Corrado

Miller
Markstrom

-Virtanen gets his nine games and then gets sent down upon Higgins' arrival
-Kenins gets sent down to Utica
-Vey gets waived.
-Sbisa and Baertschi get traded as part of a packaged deal. TBD.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Have the contracts of Prust and Dorsett become a nuisance?

Have the contracts of Prust and Dorsett become a nuisance?

Before this training camp started, I was an advocate of the Prust trade (and the Dorsett extension) for the reasons that Benning stated:

1) They provide a solid veteran presence
2) They have grit and leadership
3) They can provide protection to our younger guys on the 4th line

However - I don't think anyone, including Benning, could have predicted the emergence of some of our prospects this summer. Guys like Gaunce, McCann, and Hutton have CLEARLY made a solid case for making the squad. Virtanen's mental game needs a bit of work, but I get a sense that his enthusiasm for the game will make him a quick learner, and that he'll thrive if he's up here.

I guess what I'm saying is this: Up front, all of Gaunce, McCann, and Virtanen should be on this team. McCann has beaten out Vey, Gaunce has beaten out Baertschi, and Virtanen will probably be better than Prust this season if he isn't already. Benning/WD have also gone of record stating that, "If a young guy proves worthy of making the team, vets will be moved to accommodate."

The question however, is this: Is it worth taking out Prust and even Dorsett from the line-up?

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Horvat-Vrbata
Gaunce-Sutter-Hansen
McCann-Cracknell-Virtanen

Kenins

I mean really - In terms of size and toughness, is a combination of Cracknell and Virtanen really that much of a downgrade from Prust and Dorsett? Surely - a smaller guy like McCann would be just as "safe" playing with Cracknell and Virtanen as he would with Prust and Dorsett right?

 

[Ozone]

I am perhaps the most positive fan on here. Have 4 seasons tickets and always think its going to be a good year.

Benning is supposed to be good at evaluating talent. So ... His massive overpayment for Sbisa, Dorsett, Prust and Sutter will be the answer. I look at this roster, being a cap payroll team ... and just shake my head.

I was amazed last year that we had as good a season as we did.

I will be amazed this year if we make the playoffs.

I can not see any other favorable outcome other than we get a top 3 draft pick, Benning is gone and McCann Virtanen Trymakin Cassels etc etc prove to be great picks.

I suspect the most depressing part of all of this is that Benning seems to need to prove repeatedly that everything Gillis did needs to be fixed, and that all of his moves have been golden. Even though he has already sold 3 - 4 of his decisions for nothing.

Glad that Aquilini (who I think is a very unpleasant *******) is getting his financial ass handed to him with the US$ and the fan base no longer wiling to overpay for tickets.

Benning should be gone by Thanksgiving if the Canucks are not in contention.

I hear ya Mr. Bill.

The sad thing about reading this (and many posts like it) is that primarily positive posters (say that three times) are feeling more and more disengaged with our team and the direction it is being steered. "Iceburg, dead ahead!"

Quite sad really.

Yet, we Canuck fans, with all our emotional ups and downs, are far more savy and shrewd about the direction our team is headed (and what needs to be done) than some might initially think. We love to win, but we understand when it is time to be smart - and put a bit more emphasis on the future.

Overall, we are dedicated enough to stick with our team during a mild downturn, when it is being properly directed into the future. It can also be said (with, arguably, considerable ease) that our current management group has made significant errors that are detrimental to our team's short-term future that are not beneficial, by most standards.


We love our team. We love yelling at our team, and we love cheering for our team.
Yet, this management group is not giving us nearly enough confidence with the latter.


Let's just hope that Trevor and/or the owners have the strength to do what is going to become increasingly necessary when the time comes - or boldly join the musicians on the deck of the famous ship, and sing a final swan song as the cool water envelops their pocketbooks...

 

[WTG]

Have the contracts of Prust and Dorsett become a nuisance?

Before this training camp started, I was an advocate of the Prust trade (and the Dorsett extension) for the reasons that Benning stated:

1) They provide a solid veteran presence
2) They have grit and leadership
3) They can provide protection to our younger guys on the 4th line

However - I don't think anyone, including Benning, could have predicted the emergence of some of our prospects this summer. Guys like Gaunce, McCann, and Hutton have CLEARLY made a solid case for making the squad. Virtanen's mental game needs a bit of work, but I get a sense that his enthusiasm for the game will make him a quick learner, and that he'll thrive if he's up here.

I guess what I'm saying is this: Up front, all of Gaunce, McCann, and Virtanen should be on this team. McCann has beaten out Vey, Gaunce has beaten out Baertschi, and Virtanen will probably be better than Prust this season if he isn't already. Benning/WD have also gone of record stating that, "If a young guy proves worthy of making the team, vets will be moved to accommodate."

The question however, is this: Is it worth taking out Prust and even Dorsett from the line-up?

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Horvat-Vrbata
Gaunce-Sutter-Hansen
McCann-Cracknell-Virtanen

Kenins

I mean really - In terms of size and toughness, is a combination of Cracknell and Virtanen really that much of a downgrade from Prust and Dorsett? Surely - a smaller guy like McCann would be just as "safe" playing with Cracknell and Virtanen as he would with Prust and Dorsett right?

I can see you are slowing starting to turn on Benning

Welcome to the Club.

Also you have to question the Sutter contract with the emergence of McCann. In a few years you really think that Sutter will be a better player than 1 of McCann or Horvat? If not then would you feel comfortable with putting a 4.5m center as your 4th line guy getting 12 minutes a night?

 

[Horse McHindu]

I can see you are slowing starting to turn on Benning

Welcome to the Club.

Also you have to question the Sutter contract with the emergence of McCann. In a few years you really think that Sutter will be a better player than 1 of McCann or Horvat? If not then would you feel comfortable with putting a 4.5m center as your 4th line guy getting 12 minutes a night?

LOL.

I'm still a Benning advocate (for better or for worse), but I don't think any one of us could have predicted the emergence of some of our prospects before this training camp. It was under the assumption that guys like McCann and Gaunce would need atleast one more year in Juniors. Hutton was completely out of left field. Even a guy like Virtanen, who didn't have the greatest year last year, has shown himself "NHL ready" in terms of his speed, size, and talent.

I like the fact that Benning brought in Prust and extended Dorsett to establish a leadership-veteran presence on our bottom 6, but I'm not sure if we really need it anymore.

For one thing - I think Adam Cracknell pretty much brings what Prust/Dorsett brings, and I don't think Cracknell would look out of place on our 4th line at all.....and he'd be significantly cheaper.

Virtanen is a big boy and no one's going to take liberties with Virtanen. I think a combination of Crackell/Virtanen on a 4th line is just as "meat and potatoes" as Prust/Dorsett. McCann can then take that left side.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Horvat-Vrbata
Gaunce-Sutter-Hansen
McCann-Cracknell-Virtanen

More kids into the line-up, plus you still have that bottom 6 veteran presence with Cracknell, Hansen, and Sutter there.

 

[Cancuks]

Canucks might set some kind of record for goalscoring futility this season.

 

[WTG]

LOL.

I'm still a Benning advocate (for better or for worse), but I don't think any one of us could have predicted the emergence of some of our prospects before this training camp. It was under the assumption that guys like McCann and Gaunce would need atleast one more year in Juniors. Hutton was completely out of left field. Even a guy like Virtanen, who didn't have the greatest year last year, has shown himself "NHL ready" in terms of his speed, size, and talent.

I like the fact that Benning brought in Prust and extended Dorsett to establish a leadership-veteran presence on our bottom 6, but I'm not sure if we really need it anymore.

For one thing - I think Adam Cracknell pretty much brings what Prust/Dorsett brings, and I don't think Cracknell would look out of place on our 4th line at all.....and he'd be significantly cheaper.

Virtanen is a big boy and no one's going to take liberties with Virtanen. I think a combination of Crackell/Virtanen on a 4th line is just as "meat and potatoes" as Prust/Dorsett. McCann can then take that left side.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Horvat-Vrbata
Gaunce-Sutter-Hansen
McCann-Cracknell-Virtanen

More kids into the line-up, plus you still have that bottom 6 veteran presence with Cracknell, Hansen, and Sutter there.

Not a bad lineup. Agree with you on the toughness part. Virtanen + Cracknell + Hansen is gritty enough for me.

I still believe in Baertschi as a top 6 forward.

Baertschi looked good with McCann so far. Looked terrible with Vey and Sutter. I am willing to give him a shot with Horvat before writing him off.

It's not the same situation as Vey where he looked terrible for a good half of the season and pre season. Baertschi carried Utica with Markstrom. I still believe in him. 3 bad games doesn't change my opinion of him.

 

[bossram]

Have the contracts of Prust and Dorsett become a nuisance?

Before this training camp started, I was an advocate of the Prust trade (and the Dorsett extension) for the reasons that Benning stated:

1) They provide a solid veteran presence
2) They have grit and leadership
3) They can provide protection to our younger guys on the 4th line

However - I don't think anyone, including Benning, could have predicted the emergence of some of our prospects this summer. Guys like Gaunce, McCann, and Hutton have CLEARLY made a solid case for making the squad. Virtanen's mental game needs a bit of work, but I get a sense that his enthusiasm for the game will make him a quick learner, and that he'll thrive if he's up here.

I guess what I'm saying is this: Up front, all of Gaunce, McCann, and Virtanen should be on this team. McCann has beaten out Vey, Gaunce has beaten out Baertschi, and Virtanen will probably be better than Prust this season if he isn't already. Benning/WD have also gone of record stating that, "If a young guy proves worthy of making the team, vets will be moved to accommodate."

The question however, is this: Is it worth taking out Prust and even Dorsett from the line-up?

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Horvat-Vrbata
Gaunce-Sutter-Hansen
McCann-Cracknell-Virtanen

Kenins

I mean really - In terms of size and toughness, is a combination of Cracknell and Virtanen really that much of a downgrade from Prust and Dorsett? Surely - a smaller guy like McCann would be just as "safe" playing with Cracknell and Virtanen as he would with Prust and Dorsett right?

In terms of on-ice ability and value in trades/acquisition cost/contract cost, we should never have signed/traded for Dorsett and Prust. We massively overpaid for the little on-ice output they provide.

I can at least see the "intangible" argument, but it's mostly hocus-pocus. We have a team with the Sedins. They are consummate professionals. Higgins and Hansen are also very hard-working forwards. How much more leadership did we need? The protection element falls flat. Goons never have and never will prevent other teams from taking liberties.

It ultimately falls on Benning. It is completely predictable we would have come across better, younger and cheaper players. At any rate, he could have targeted better players (like a Brad Boyes) for much cheaper anyway. Now they're blocking our young players. And even if a guy like McCann were to make the team, he'd probably be skating with the two meatheads, thus reducing his ability to show what he can actually do. And not even going to get into the Sutter thing...

Yah, they were bad decisions. If our young guys are ready, take them out.

 

[Trelane]

I am perhaps the most positive fan on here. Have 4 seasons tickets and always think its going to be a good year.

Benning is supposed to be good at evaluating talent. So ... His massive overpayment for Sbisa, Dorsett, Prust and Sutter will be the answer. I look at this roster, being a cap payroll team ... and just shake my head.

I was amazed last year that we had as good a season as we did.

I will be amazed this year if we make the playoffs.

I can not see any other favorable outcome other than we get a top 3 draft pick, Benning is gone and McCann Virtanen Trymakin Cassels etc etc prove to be great picks.

I suspect the most depressing part of all of this is that Benning seems to need to prove repeatedly that everything Gillis did needs to be fixed, and that all of his moves have been golden. Even though he has already sold 3 - 4 of his decisions for nothing.

Glad that Aquilini (who I think is a very unpleasant *******) is getting his financial ass handed to him with the US$ and the fan base no longer wiling to overpay for tickets.

Benning should be gone by Thanksgiving if the Canucks are not in contention.

I'm confused. If those three bolded prospect go on to be "great," I gather top 6/4, it means Benning is Godlike when it comes to drafting. Not many (any?) GMs out there getting three frontline players in any draft year, never mind their 1st with a new club where the prep work is less than usual.

Gillis, who many are pining for even though they wanted him gone as early as 2-3 years ago, by way of comparison, completely whiffed in his first three drafts. Zilch. It may even be four depending on Corrado (?), Grenier (??), and... who are we kidding, Jensen (???). The ability to merely add to an existing core and sign players to good deals, while vital for a contender, is almost insignificant next to drafting good players for a rebuilding team.

Something like 20-25% of 2nd round picks go on to play 300 games in the show. Ergo, Benning can afford to strike out on 2 to 3 MORE Vey/Baerstchi type moves before he's officially below average, never mind the usual Nuck drafting standards when talking 2nd rounders.

It's a curious approach to make it seem that everything Gillis did needs fixing by trading "his guy," Clendenning, shortly after acquiring him, and effectively gifting a roster spot to Corrado, Gillis' guy. That Benning sure is one cagey dude.

 

[Ozone]

In terms of on-ice ability and value in trades/acquisition cost/contract cost, we should never have signed/traded for Dorsett and Prust. We massively overpaid for the little on-ice output they provide.

I can at least see the "intangible" argument, but it's mostly hocus-pocus. We have a team with the Sedins. They are consummate professionals. Higgins and Hansen are also very hard-working forwards. How much more leadership did we need? The protection element falls flat. Goons never have and never will prevent other teams from taking liberties.

It ultimately falls on Benning. It is completely predictable we would have come across better, younger and cheaper players. At any rate, he could have targeted better players (like a Brad Boyes) for much cheaper anyway. Now they're blocking our young players. And even if a guy like McCann were to make the team, he'd probably be skating with the two meatheads, thus reducing his ability to show what he can actually do. And not even going to get into the Sutter thing...

Yah, they were bad decisions. If our young guys are ready, take them out.

Boom. Therein lies the crux of the matter.

Ba Boom.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Not surprising that 95% of Benning acqusiitons have been a disappointment. Glad to see McCann showing promise.

Vey and Baertschi shouldn't even be on this team. Bartkowski, Miller, Prust, Dorsett.

This is getting depressing.

Hopefully this is the last season of Benning and WD.

I also believe it's time that the "great evaluator of talent and scouting pedigree" rep Benning gets should be gone

Nothing at all wrong with Bartkowski and Dorsett, both signed to market vale deals.

Baertschi will be interesting to watch. I wonder if he has it or not. We will soon find out. if he had been a Canucks 2nd round pick we'd be clamouring to make room for him rather than waive him.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Boom. Therein lies the crux of the matter.

Ba Boom.

That's why on the Trades and Rumors forum, I just suggested the idea of packaging off our 'bad/extraneous' contracts along with our 2016 1st round pick (i.e. a team that we're dealing with will be excited at the idea of acquiring our 2016 1st round pick as they see us as a bottom feeder, and would be willing to take on our bad contracts as result).

-McCann has outperformed Vey
-Gaunce is better suited to bottom 6 than Baertschi
-Hutton has outperformed Sbisa
-Cracknell brings as much veteran leadership and grit as Prust and Dorsett
-The presence of Prust and Dorsett prevent young guys (that have proven themselves as being READY since training camp) from winning full-time roster spots.

If you package a 2016 1st, along with Sbisa, Baertschi, Dorsett, and perhaps someone like Corrado, maybe you bring in a guy like Phaneuf and two 2nd round picks.

 

[RandV]

However - I don't think anyone, including Benning, could have predicted the emergence of some of our prospects this summer. Guys like Gaunce, McCann, and Hutton have CLEARLY made a solid case for making the squad. Virtanen's mental game needs a bit of work, but I get a sense that his enthusiasm for the game will make him a quick learner, and that he'll thrive if he's up here.

I disagree, it's all a matter of quantity. It can be hard to to pick out specifically who it's going to be, but we've drafted 6 forwards in the 1st round over the past 4 years. It's still only preseason but odds were someone was going to step up.

 

[Ozone]

Put down the booze

That's why on the Trades and Rumors forum, I just suggested the idea of packaging off our 'bad/extraneous' contracts along with our 2016 1st round pick (i.e. a team that we're dealing with will be excited at the idea of acquiring our 2016 1st round pick as they see us as a bottom feeder, and would be willing to take on our bad contracts as result).

-McCann has outperformed Vey
-Gaunce is better suited to bottom 6 than Baertschi
-Hutton has outperformed Sbisa
-Cracknell brings as much veteran leadership and grit as Prust and Dorsett
-The presence of Prust and Dorsett prevent young guys (that have proven themselves as being READY since training camp) from winning full-time roster spots.

If you package a 2016 1st, along with Sbisa, Baertschi, Dorsett, and perhaps someone like Corrado, maybe you bring in a guy like Phaneuf and two 2nd round picks.

Put down the booze. I even included a weird title, that you love...

 

[tc 23]

Dorsett and Prust contracts have been nuisances since they were signed/acquired. The human mentorpede of underwhelming hockey players was never necessary and most people with foresight saw right away that these guys could block young players from potentially earning spots on the team. Unfortunately we're stuck with them as they have negative value. Might as well hold onto the boat anchors as we rebuild rather than pay someone to take them so we can potentially be a middling bubble team.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Put down the booze. I even included a weird title, that you love...

Yes I saw that!

Much appreciated good sir.

 

[bsjezz]

wait, prust was signed to an additional contract?

dorsett and sbisa was the big, egregious error on benning's part if you ask me. it was him doubling-down on his own iffy decisions. but the dorsett price tag isn't brutal, and i honestly think benning believes sbisa has some intangible grit to him - and to be fair, he can lay a nasty hit when it tickles his fancy

sutter i'm starting to understand more. no, he's not ever going to be a good 2C and i personally think he's hot garbage on the ice. but giving him term makes him buy-in in a way that he wouldn't have without it. you need guys with investment, especially amongst your veterans. if you've got veterans who want it because their name is on the line, and kids who want it because they're kids, it's a good combination. i didn't see it that way until we started to approach this season.

i don't think we'll win, but i'm feeling less like benning's complete ineptitude screwed us over right now. things are working out. this is a good development atmosphere and i don't share everyone's pessimism that the higher-ups won't capitalize on it. mccann has been interviewed on canucks.com three times in three days, fer chrissakes. linden vey's face hasn't been seen once.

 

[Wilch]

I'm just curious as to whether the Aquilinis are aware of how bad things are.

 

[WTG]

wait, prust was signed to an additional contract?

No... Let's hope he doesn't.

sutter i'm starting to understand more. no, he's not ever going to be a good 2C and i personally think he's hot garbage on the ice. but giving him term makes him buy-in in a way that he wouldn't have without it. you need guys with investment, especially amongst your veterans. if you've got veterans who want it because their name is on the line, and kids who want it because they're kids, it's a good combination. i didn't see it that way until we started to approach this season.

i don't think we'll win, but i'm feeling less like benning's complete ineptitude screwed us over right now. things are working out. this is a good development atmosphere and i don't share everyone's pessimism that the higher-ups won't capitalize on it. mccann has been interviewed on canucks.com three times in three days, fer chrissakes. linden vey's face hasn't been seen once.

I don't understand this line of thought....


Sutter is hot garbage -> But because he got a big contract it might inspire him to play better.

Why even trade for such a player? I don't understand.

We could have easily kept Bonino and ran a lineup of:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Bonino-Horvat-Vrbata
Baertschi-McCann-Hansen
Gaunce-Cracknell-Virtanen
Kenins

Edler-Tanev
Hamhuis-Weber
Stanton-Corrado
Clendening

Lack
Markstrom

PP1:
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Bonino-Edler

PP2:
McCann-Horvat-Gaunce
Baertschi-Weber

How sick would that have been?